Israeli President; Peres: Recognition of Jewish state 'unnecessary'

Now then, who have we got here ?



Israeli arabs in the IDF. ' Jewish ' are they ?

The notion of a democratic State for one ethnic type is , simply put, racist. 25% of Israeli citizens are not jewish. The neoZionist demand for recognition of Israel as an exclusively 'jewish ' entity is simply an attempt to renege on Israel's United Nations commitments as carried forward from the British Mandate for Palestine.

 

They didn't require recognition when they agreed to peace with Egypt or Jordan.

 

Whatever, Moon. Even if Israeli arabs multiply like rabbits, the Government of Israel will remain Jewish. It's the only way for Israel to survive.

 

Incorrect. It's the only way for neoZionism to survive - and we can all do without that.

 

Moon your anti Israel diatribes are nonsensical. Clearly the concept of Zionism and the laws of Israel make it clear that being a Jewish state does not mean its exclusive democratically only to Jews. What you said is patently false and nonsensical as could be seen just yesterday when an Arab Israeli elected to the Knesset stood up, interrupted Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper addressing the Knesset and screaming out that Israel was an apartheid state.

If Israel was exclusively democratic to only Jews, Arab Israelis would not be elected to the Knesset let alone have a Judge on Israel's Supreme Court.

They would not have over 125 of their own Human Rights groups in Israel openly criticizing Israeli state policies.


They would not own and operate their own newspapers or be heard on radio and t.v. regularly criticizing Israeli state policies.

They would not have Israeli citizenship and have the highest standard of living of any Arab in the Middle East.

They would not own land and have those land rights enforced in court.

They would not have access to the exact same universities and hospitals which they do.

This is why Moon you have zero credibility. You come on this forum and engage in this nonsensical name calling.

In fact, absolute fact, Arab Israelis enjoy the very democratic rights of Israeli Jews. That is precisely because while Zionism as a doctrine guarantees the protection of the Jewish collective it does not as you say do strip others of their rights.

Is Israel perfect? No one said it was. It struggles as do with all Arab states on what to do with Beduins who are not assimilating into urban cities across the Middle East and experiencing similar issues as the aboriginals in North America, New Zealand and Australia for example.

Yes there are serious unresolved issues as to the West Bank, Gaza groups like Hamas and Hezbollah who you have stated you support on this forum.

But to come once again on the forum and make silly baseless comments and then show pictures of allegedly Arab Israeli soldiers makes a mockery of your very assertion. If Israel was so anti-democratic, why would Arab Israelis join the IDF? It is a fact no Arab Israeli, no Muslim, Christian or non Jewish Israeli can be forced into the army. They can opt out. Most don't. In fact some of the bravest of IDF soldiers have been Druze, Beduins, Muslims and Christian Israelis.

In fact during the civil war in the former Yugoslavia, when Muslims were displaced in the war, Israel took in 10,000 Muslim refugees and they live freely in Israel today.

If Israel was the non democratic nation you claim it is to non Jews then explain the hundreds of thousands of Africans fleeing poverty and trying to get into Israel forcing it to turn them back because it has no room or facilities for them.

Such nonsense. Such hateful nonsense. Its pointless.

In fact you show me one democratic right Muslim and Christian Israelis do not have. You can't. You can spin a tale and say Israel has a law of return fast tracking citizenship for Jews but so do over 200 other nations including Ireland, Belgium, France, Germany, Japan, China, Taiwan, the Czech Republic, the Ukraine, Estonia,Latvia, to name but a few.

Even more ridiculous is the fact you are well aware that in Sharia law nations and in particular the Gulf States,Sudan, Syria, Iraq, Jordan,Iran, Saudia Arabia, a Jew is not allowed to own land, can not testify in court because Jews are considered unable to tell the truth, can not do business with a Muslim unless its through another Muslim acting as a broker as Jews can not talk directly to Muslims in these countries. You know all about dhmmitude that has enshrined in these states second class citizenship and apartheid to not just Jews but Christians, Bahaiis, Zoroastreans, atheists, communists, gays and lesbians, trade union supporters.

You know full well there have been massacres in these nations of Christians, Jews, Bahaiis, Zoroastreans, but not just them, Berbers,Kurds, and Amidyah Muslims or between Shiite and Sunnis.

So Moon save the rhetoric. Its tiresome and its spent.

Also when you want to show pictures, at least get one that has something to do with the nonsensical claim you are trying to make.

 

You'd have to be very , very stupid not see the neoZionists' advantage in removing such truth-sayers from the Knesset

Quite obviously, a ' jewish ' State could not claim to be democratic.

That's odd. You've outlined the neoZionists' plans whilst calling my credibility ' zero '.

A downright falsehood.

On the contrary- the existence of Palestinians in the IOF, misguided though they are, demonstrates that a 'jewish ' State is not possible. Perhaps you think that these arabs would fight to displace themselves ?

 

The Palestinians base their demand for their own state on UN resolution 181.

but 181 ALSO calls for the creation of a Jewish state in Palestine.

 

I never thought I would live to see the day Moon would use an "Israel Hayom" source, even if quoted in Haaretz, that's the NeoZionists evil paper.....

Peres was queted by Haaretz in a diffrent article also shown in the same page of your link, warnning from the possibility of Israel losing its identity as Jewish state, meaning he does fear the possibility and wants it to continue be one,

But even if what he have supposed of have said in private is true, it doesnt mean he doesnt want it to be a Jewish state - that's what disconnecting from the Palestinians is all about, it means its known the Arabs will never accept it and for our goals - disconnecting from them - it shouldnt be the stick in the wheel to stop historical agreement,

Personaly, I think Peres is more correct then Bibi in this case, the war will not stop anyway but Israel has more to gain in such agreement than "peace", that's the switch ppl in Israel and in the world need to make, "peace" is not possible, perhaps we can divide Israel and Palestine that will have its own merits.

 

The reason why peace is apparently not possible is because Israel has never had any intention of wanting peace in the first place. Fascism and peace are incongruous in light of the Zionist ambitions for the Greater Israel.

 

What are supposed to be the borders of Greater Israel?

 

What were supposed to have been the eventual border's pertaining to Hitler's fascistic wet dream?

 

Well said ,

While I dislike Liberman for several reasons, I liked how his suggestion flushed the hypocracy of those that live democratic lives yet attack at at every oppertunity.

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I asked you a simple question...

Are you suggesting the river to river crap ? Israel to control Iraq etc'...say it aint so Trout....

 

Trout you can keep repeating close ended stereotypes of Israelis like Moon but what has it achieved? The 2 of you have made it clear Israel is the enemy and must be removed. Now what? How many times will you come on this forum and repeat the same mantra?

What does it achieve when discussing Middle East conflicts other than you have a closed mind, a fixed opinion and can only see one opinion and solution?

Fine.

We get it. Israel is evil and must be removed. Now what?

See for the vast majority of us, and I do not hesitate saying us although it sounds arrogant and I do not mean to be, but for the vast majority of us, we see two sides to the conflict and realize neither side is right or wrong, both sides will need to compromise and peace can only come about when conflicting parties can step back and feel confident to make compromises.

Obviously people like you are not interested in peaceful dialogue. You make that clear repeatedly. You trot out a black and white formula with one bad and one good party and see only one solution. Most of us transcended that way of thinking in adulthood when we realized an al or nothing approach is not practical.

Sure as children and as angry teenagers many of us saw black and white. But we grew into the world where we learned to decipher shades of grey between the black and white and we now know in all aspect of life, to survive we all need to learn to adapt, compromise, negotiate, share, no when to walk away, when to defend, when to be quiet, when to do certain things.

Most of us are not interested in messages of hate and intolerance. In fact we are sick of it and the name calling that comes in the guise or pretext of political forum discussions.


As much as you try incite or encourage intolerance and hatred for the existence of Israel, all it does is attract the same intransigent language back to you.

Its a basic and simple concept Trout. Call people evil, name call them, try dehumanize them as you do Zionists or Israelis, constantly write them all off as evil, and that gets you nothing-zero-just a few people who share your hatred and some people on the other side calling you names back.

Trout get with it. All of us, you me, everyone, of all faiths, religions, creeds, whatever, we all want the same thing, peace, respect, dignified work, a neighbourhood our kids can grow up in and feel safe, a purpose for living.

As much as you try suggest Israel and its citizens are demons for wanting that the more ridiculous you sound.

I rest assured having lived in Israel, having witnessed tragedy, having gone to school and worked with Arabs and Israelis, that the vast majority
are what I say, just people looking for the same things, and they both equally reject you and your words of hatred and your agenda.

Most want to be left alone far away from people like you who try use their misfortunes as political agenda.

 

Hard on you, isn't it ?
Arabs serving the IDF.
What next ? Palestinians who refuse to be part of the Palestinian state and wants to be Israelis ?

Oh, wait, it is exactly so. In a poll made with the Arab population of Israel more than 70% preferred to be Israeli citizens than Palestinian citizens.
http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4119/israeli-arabs-palestinian-state

 

Let's make it clear, what we have right now is considered by Israeli Jews - a Jewish state, we would like to keep it that way including Arabs in the Army, Knesset, High courts - as long as some remain in the Kitchen...Jewish food is awful...

 

I have a great idea:

If the Palestinians don't have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state, then Israel doesn't have to call the Palestinian state "Palestine". They can call it "Judea and Samaria".

 

They can call it whatsoever they like- as long as there are none of them in it.

 

Pretty much until other forum members accept that apartheid and racism are rife in Israel and join the movement to delegitimise the neoZionist occupation. How many more times must we read your apologism for neoZionist fascism ?

When the illegal occupiers up pegs and go home we can all forget about them. The vilification of neoZionism is, of course, dependent upon what neoZionists do. Why don't you tell the forum where you think ' Israel's ' borders should be ?

 

Certainly, but that suggestion was based upon equal rights for ALL of that State's inhabitants.

 

Ask any common-or-garden neoZionist fascist. It will be in his handbook.

 

you are aware that the Israelities were actually Middle Eastern Jews, right ?
the Palestinians are the descendants of the Israelities.
the Jews of North Africa and Europe need to leave Israel to the Palestinian Jews, Christians, and Muslims.
what an ignorance post on your part.

 

I have no objection to anybody voicing an opinion- even crackpots. Your own opinion appears personal and unrelated to historic fact.

He's right, on this occasion.

 

Do the Palestinians refuse to recognize the Islamic Republics of Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan?

 

No Iranians, Pakistanis nor Afghans have invaded Palestine, ethnically-cleansed Palestinians or illegally squatted in their homeland.

 

ah, so that's why its ok for Pakistan, Iran, and Afghanistan to be Muslim states?

I see.