Latest 'Gold Standard' Review Puts The Final Nail In The Coffin For Masks

People in the know knew better from the start:

 

So can you possibly entertain what is actually being said here and how it relates to the pandemic? Perhaps you are cherry picking results.

 

The results from every randomized clinical trial from 1946 to 2018 -- 10 testing face masks = "cherry picking results"?

“Abstract

There were 3 influenza pandemics in the 20th century, and there has been 1 so far in the 21st century. Local, national, and international health authorities regularly update their plans for mitigating the next influenza pandemic in light of the latest available evidence on the effectiveness of various control measures in reducing transmission. Here, we review the evidence base on the effectiveness of nonpharmaceutical personal protective measures and environmental hygiene measures in nonhealthcare settings and discuss their potential inclusion in pandemic plans. Although mechanistic studies support the potential effect of hand hygiene or face masks, ***evidence from 14 randomized controlled trials*** of these measures did not support a substantial effect on transmission of laboratory-confirmed influenza. We similarly found limited evidence on the effectiveness of improved hygiene and environmental cleaning. We identified several major knowledge gaps requiring further research, most fundamentally an improved characterization of the modes of person-to-person transmission.”
Volume 26, Number 5—May 2020, Policy Review, Nonpharmaceutical Measures for Pandemic Influenza in Nonhealthcare Settings—Personal Protective and Environmental Measures, Jingyi Xiao1, Eunice Y. C. Shiu1, Huizhi Gao, Jessica Y. Wong, Min W. Fong, Sukhyun Ryu, and Benjamin J. Cowling, Author affiliations: University of Hong Kong, Hong Kong, China. (emphasis mine)
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/5/19-0994_article

 

Dive deeper. What about other studies that show otherwise? What are these studies actually showing?

 

Every RCT between 1946 and 2018 came to the same conclusion with respect to the spread of viruses.
But they did not conclude that masks and other protective measures were entirely useless -- especially in a medical setting.

 

Logical fallacies don't have one, but please continue pretending people were wearing respirators during covid.

 

So what? The general public doesn't even know they exist, nor would 99.99% of people wear them even if they were told to. And, in the event I'm wrong about that, the minute the manufacturers got hit with hundreds of millions of orders, they'd be out of stock and unable to replenish it for months if not years.

They couldn't even make enough toilet paper to keep the shelves stocked, and virtually every human uses some of that every day, sometimes multiple times. The companies that make these masks are not designed or prepared to produce the kind of supply it would take to equip even a small fraction of the population, so whether or not they might work, and whether or not they might be worn in hospitals and other controlled environments is irrelevant.

If you wish to wear one, be my guest. I would say the same to any and everyone who feels the same way, if they have the money and there is inventory available.

But I'm really not clear what point you are trying to make, or what policies you are suggesting, but I live in the land of the free, and I am willing to give my life to keep it that way. I may be an old cripple (or at least getting old anyway), but my wheelchair at top speed is as fast as a decent jogger, and my aim is still intact, should it ever come to that.

Obviously I would not stand much of a chance should some event such as that take place, but with spy balloons popping up all over the planet, our economy in the tank, and our society more divided than it's been since the 1860s, the short to medium term future is downright frightening, and that's completely ignoring the fact that we just recovered from a global pandemic that turned into a nothingburger, but could have ended up being the first chapter of a Steven King novel.

 

Don't project your assumptions on me with a rather stupid untrue assertion. Besides, what I do personally is irrelevant.

My position is that we should provide inexpensive, high quality respirators...



... to people who want them and who might then feel more comfortable about using public transit including airlines, traveling, visiting malls and so on. Require masks? No.

If the most vulnerable use masks and don't end up in hospital, it makes lockdowns and other restrictive measures less likely. Pols don't want to be in the position of allowing people with bone fractures and appendicitis to suffer, maybe even die, because hospitals are overrun with covid patients. They will act to prevent childbirth from once again involve maternal mortality just because women giving birth can't get to the hospital. I could go on with examples. Your right to do as you please may be compromised.

Hopefully, we won't never end up with a SARS-CoV-2 variant that evades vaccines, treatments and natural immunity while making people extremely ill. People who fear covid, won't wear masks, and won't return to using in-person services are hurting the economy. If we can coax people out, it would help the economy.

Your dismissive attitude about their concern in support of your anti-mask crusading only makes them reluctant to return to purchasing in-person services. Me? I didn't care if people didn't like me wearing a respirator when pre-Omicron variants were making people ill. MYOB.

I support reasonable actions to preserve as many individual options as possible. Society would rather require you to limit your activities than see hospitals compromised. You can't win that one. People will hate you for killing other people by catching covid and then seeking hospital care.

Maybe you folks who don't like Old Joe and don't want him reelected should stop consorting with morons...



Can you focus on making sure to press forward on real matters, not lies about what teachers teach and figuring ways to force women to have children? If you don't stop, and then don't put forward real answers for the disappearing middle class, you may well reelect Old Joe.

My approach would benefit all of us because we're losing lots of money with people not using transit (buses and trains run anyway), not visiting the mall, staying home and buying Chinese goods on Amazon, and on and on.

Some of this mess will have to work itself out, but we could help it along in the right direction.

 

Yours is an absurd whopper because I never said respirator use was widespread.

Your post was non responsive.

 

They were worn by medical professionals, especially by those caring for covid patients. N95 and better respirators were worn before Omicron by some people, certainly not most.

Wear eye protection.

Argument for what? I said we should have told people who want masks that they could wear respirators to protect themselves and leave anti-mask types alone. I wasn't going to claim the could protect themselves by wearing a surgical mask. What don't you like about that position?

Your reality is what? You want to ban people from wearing masks?

You anti-mask types can't take "yes" for an answer.

 

Knew better about what? A million people died from covid. What did the dead people know better about?

P100 respirators can be very effective protection against covid. Wear one if you want to, or need to, or don't wear one--your choice. You object to not having to wear a mask?

 

Thanks for admitting you've been off topic the entire thread, Darth Respirator.

 

You said no one is wearing N95 (and better) respirators. That's incorrect.

This is irrelevent.

The President, as needed, could invoke the Defense Production Act. The masks are not that difficult to make and everyone who wanted one could have had one. The message would then become: "If you want protect yourself with a mask, wear a respirator. Other people can do as they please."

Well, there you go.

If you want protection from covid, wear this...



They filter out the virus effectively and that's why hospital workers wear them.

There's something wrong with those anti-mask, anti-vax people who are also anti-respirator.

 

No I don't care who wears what. I only demand that we leave it up to the individual. And your glasses + respirator is still inferior to a vyzr mask. Because again...covid spreads by you rubbing your eyes and face. your set up is great for operating but lousy at preventing infection spread since it's so easily circumvented by the wearer.

 

I've been talking about "masks"--respirators, in this case--and saying (1) respirators work, and (2) that I think masks should not be mandatory, especially with Omicron. That's on topic whereas your comment about me is not.

Are you one of the ant-mask types who just can't stand someone pointing out N95 and better respirators work and that wearing one is protective?

Are you trying to manipulate people into not wearing masks to validate a position you have?

 

Slightly inferior.

I didn't touch my face when I worse a respirator. If I had, I would have used a wipe before I removed my respirator.

You expertise is what?

A respirator can be effective under the right circumstances.

 

Your set up is woefully inferior for the fact that you can access your face with your hands.

Most people are not even aware of scratching their faces or rubbing their eyes as they sweat and wear this uncomfortably god awful set up that creates fog in your glasses, sweat and ache/rashes. You can say you didn't but for starters, I don't believe you. And secondly you don't represent the majority.

Apparently knowing more about covid then you do. With a sound grasp of reality. COVID could last for weeks on a surface. So the likelihood you got covid on your hands from door handles or debit machines or any other frequently used surface was great. The chances you transfered that to your phone before you washed your hands is even greater. Based on the fact that the mandates and restrictions did little to stop the virus from spreading speaks volumes enough. Virus is gonna do what a virus is gonna do. And the mandates were all bullshit. I've said so since the beginning.

I said as much. But not for hours on end in public environments, day in day out.

Fun fact. I still haven't gotten covid. I've stopped chasing the vaccine after the first two shots and I never wore the gd masks when I could avoid wearing them.

But all my mask hugging friends? They've all gotten covid. Might have something to do with the fact that the more you wear something on your face the more likely you are going to scratch or fuss with your face.

I guess those mask huggers should have all worn this;



But then they would all rather risk wearing inferior masks for the reward of not looking like a gd fool. Neat how that works huh? I'd rather be left alone to also risk not wearing ANY damn masks for the reward of not looking like a gd fool. But everyone went full fking hysterical authoritarian.

 

It depends upon the individual.

It doesn't fog glasses. Quite the contrary. It's not a surgical mask.

They're quite comfortable for a few hours indoors.

You and your buddy Trump?

Oh, please. You're blowing smoke.

"Quantitative microbial risk assessment (QMRA) studies have been conducted to understand and characterize the relative risk of SARS-CoV-2 fomite transmission and evaluate the need for and effectiveness of prevention measures to reduce risk. Findings of these studies suggest that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection via the fomite transmission route is low, and generally less than 1 in 10,000, which means that each contact with a contaminated surface has less than a 1 in 10,000 chance of causing an infection. Some studies estimated exposure risks primarily using outdoor environmental SARS-CoV-2 RNA quantification data. They noted that their QMRA estimates are subject to uncertainty that can be reduced with additional data to improve the accuracy and precision of information that is entered into the models. Concentrations of infectious SARS-CoV-2 on outdoor surfaces could be expected to be lower than indoor surfaces because of air dilution and movement, as well as harsher environmental conditions, such as sunlight. One QMRA study also evaluated the effectiveness of prevention measures that reduce the risk of fomite transmission and found that hand hygiene could substantially reduce the risk of SARS-CoV-2 transmission from contaminated surfaces, while surface disinfection once- or twice-per-day had little impact on reducing estimated risks."​

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/science-and-research/surface-transmission.html

A respirator is not a surgical mask.

This works well if worn properly. Hospital workers prove it every day.


P100 respirator

Don't want to wear it? Then don't.

Why would you discourage someone from wearing a P100 respirator if they would then feel comfortable about purchasing in-person services? Are you trying to screw up the economy?

 

"Don't want to wear it? Then don't?"

That was the exact thing you should have said at the start of the pandemic. Glad it took ya 2 years to wise up to common sense.

The CHOICE was all anyone ever wanted from the hysteric crowd.

I hope lessons were learned.

Oh and you either didn't read the full article you posted or you were selective in what you quoted.

Read it again.

 

First thing, as already mentioned infecting oneself via touch is not as easy as you appear to claim. There was a lot of nonsense and lack of good information at the beginning of the pandemic. News that the virus could persist on certain surfaces for days caused a lot of panic of people disinfecting everything in site. There was absolutely no proof that the virus was still capable of infecting people. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00251-4

If there were a high chance of infection via rubbing eyes/touching face, the use of masks would be more beneficial because any germs would be released mostly into the mask rather than into the environment. Wearing masks would massively decrease the number of viral particles ending up on surfaces.

Masks also stop people from touching the mouth. The SARS virus is actually a respiratory infection and depending on the variant general takes hold in the nose or the throat. Why would you believe rubbing the eyes would cause infection readily. Even touching the mouth, there would have to be a certain amount of live virus present. The easiest way and most prevalent way of getting infected is breathing the virus in.

Infection from surfaces is insignificant compared to inhalation of the virus. I have worn a N95 mask that fits close to the face and due to the close fit my sunglasses don’t get fogged up. I have never experienced any discomfort, rashes, or sweating from it.

Stating that covid could last on a surface for weeks doesn’t mean a lot. They find fragments of the virus on surfaces after that amount of time, the likelihood of them still having the ability to infect is minuscule. The SARS virus is easily destroyed by UV light.

The virus is not going to do what a virus is going to do. Human behaviour is the key. Wearing masks decreases the load of infected particles in the air — N95 masks decrease it by 95%, hand washing, social distancing, well-ventilated environments also decrease the chances of infection. You are erroneous in saying all these things were ineffective.

After Germany mandated use of masks, it was estimated that the number of newly registered infections was reduced between 15% and 75% over 20 days after the mandatory introduction. A study into this showed that the use of face masks reduced the daily reporting rate of infections by 47 percent. This certainly indicates that the introduction of masks had an effect. This has been shown to be true in other countries as well.

You have no idea if you have had covid or not. Many people have had it asymptomatically and not realized it. There are also people out there that are immune due to genetics of the receptors for SARS. If you haven’t had it, you have been lucky. If it’s so easy to get infected via touching your face as you claim, it’s odd you haven’t got it too as you are giving this as a major reason for transmission. The fact that you haven’t had covid doesn’t means masks and other non-pharmaceutical interventions didn’t have an effect in decreasing the number of infections.

The problem with you is that you are posting misinformation related to infections via touching, you are not considering that masks and other interventions do have an effect on transmission and rate of infection. The thing about mask wearing is that you need to think beyond yourself. I continue to wear a mask to avoid getting/giving covid when in the community. It’s a health decision — just like putting on a seat belt, not drink driving, eating health food and so forth. I don’t know but when there is a virus going around that has the potential of causing death of vulnerable people, one should be considerate of others. Obviously masks, distancing, hand washing etc are measures to help decrease infections, not to stop them.

You refer to people as ‘mask huggers’. I refer to them as sensible people doing their best to decrease the chances of getting infected themselves and infecting others. It’s nothing to be angry about and really when one chooses to wear a mask, it doesn’t just affect only them. I personally think that on public transport and enclosed places (shops) masks should still be worn.

 

IOW, it really has to do with It has to do with why you may be afraid to give up your mask.

 

The people in the know, like Newsome, Biden, Fauci were caught not wearing P100 respirators. Think about that.

 

Oh fun...long winded nonsense. Just to catch you up. The argument has always been regarding the MANDATES which allowed for cloth masks to be "socially acceptable". So what you are arguing against right now is the vyzr mask versus an N100. Of which you haven't said anything to refute the claim. A mask that prevents access to your face enclosing your entire head is more protective. I'm sorry. It just is. Even if you can try and suggest that it's super duper hard to infect yourself with covid from your hands...the vyzr mask removes that entirely.

But the virus did exactly what viruses do. lol It spread freely, it infected mostly everyone, masks or not...and it evolved into a less deadly more infectious version of itself which is exactly what covid strains tend to do. Look at the stats right now;

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Japan is a very mask centric society even before the pandemic. Oh look! They are at the top right now, leading the world in new infections! The virus is doing what a virus does. Which is it's gonna infect everyone over there until they grow a natural immunity and then it will mutate and flow to another population. Oh well!

You are correct. There is a chance I could have had it and been asymptomatic. Absolutely! Only reinforces the lack of concern I have always had for the damn virus. Which was low. Why was it low? Because I looked at the data and based on my health and age I was never in any danger. The problem with you and everyone else is that you mandated bullshit. I was "socially acceptable" wearing cloth masks. Not 95's not 100's with goggles. Cloth masks. As for the vaccine? It can't prevent my giving it to you, only prevents you from getting severe side effects from Covid. Again, it protects the individual. Oh and even the cloth mask was making my face sweaty and caused acne. The fact I have a beard also made the damn thing uncomfortable. So I don't care about your anecdote experience in wearing N95's.

The argument here has always been about personal choice. My personal choice to face the virus as to how I wish to face it. And to ask you to use the tools available to protect yourself should you so doing. Don't demand I wear a bullshit cloth mask especially if you are not worried enough to wear a vyzr mask.

If you are not wearing this;



You were never really worried to begin with.

 

Your problem is that your personal choice affects other people. Anyways, there is no point discussing something with somebody who is woefully lacking in knowledge about masks and how covid is transmitted. You have been providing misinformation. Did I mention cloth masks, did I demand that you wear a cloth mask? There are different types of masks that are appropriate for different environments. Even cloth masks are effective at decreasing viral load in the air. You seem overly emotional about a piece of cloth.

 

I haven't provided any misinformation. The argument (if you bothered to catch up on before you jumped in...) was the efficacy between a vyzr mask which encloses your entire head and prevents hand/face contact versus the an N100 respirator + goggles. Which allows the user access to their face with their hands.

You've just jumped in to argue the claim of infection spreading from scratching your face and you did a **** job at that as the link you posted even claimed that it's impossible to track, that it doesn't account for the hands getting effected from air droplets versus covid off of a surface...yadda yadda.

The TRUTH of the matter is that the virus still spread regardless of mandates and restrictions. It spread, it evolved...we grew natural immunity and it stopped being a problem. The virus did exactly what viruses do.

Next time you jump into a conversation, have the decency to know what the gd conversation is even about.