Absolutely not, I fully understand their value and contributions, and for all that they were compensated very little. Women have their own unique talents, and should be able to decide for themselves the type of contributions they want to make. What did June Cleaver control? Whether the Beaver washed behind his ears and ate his vegetables? A woman without an independent income has very little control over her own life. You're romanticizing. Both good and bad mothers existed then, as well as now.
Of course you loved the fifties. It was your mom preparing the meals, caring for the sick, doing the housework, laundering, even sewing your clothes, and making sure you got to church on time. I didn't have an abortion; that was you.
She knows that, but the whole "abortion is murder" narrative is much more compelling than basing a campaign around being anti-choice. Even though their real mission is to stop women from controlling their own bodies, coming out and saying that plainly isn't going to win you many supporters other than the other diehard anti-choice people. For them, it's more about the position than what the position actually deals with, and it's propped up largely by creating strawmen that you fight against, which Churchmouse illustrates with almost every post where she misrepresents what people say, assigns people positions they've never taken, and explodes what they do say into something entirely different, to the point where she actually makes the claim that pro-choicers want more more more death, all the time, more abortions, we celebrate it, have abortion parties, clap women on the back when they have one, and encourage them to have more. We are apparently excited every time a report comes out that says abortions have increased, and we celebrate it, like a weird new years eve party with streamers and those noise-makers you blow on. Her position is not aimed at anyone I've seen on this forum, it's aimed at the most sensationalized, dramatized, and over-the-top mutation of being pro-choice that I've ever seen anyone make in this debate.
I believe women have lost some control but I believe it is due to societal pressures and messages. Implants, plastic surgery, media influences. fashion accessories, behaviour modification etc. Women have control over their own free-will-actions but not necessarily over bodily processes. Same for the male of the species. If he is able to place his sperm in the vicinity of a woman's egg his choice has been made, he no longer naturally controls the consequences. If one smokes that choice may lead to an illness. An expectant mother has control but choice sometimes dictates an unwanted (but not necessarily an unexpected) consequence/result. We may differ on some of this but we do not differ on making a choice...unless that choice would unlawfully end the life of another. The argument is about giving/allowing a choice but some forget about the developing child, what choice options is he or she given? Can an infant make choices? Yet most (there are a few exceptions) would still say this tiny being has a right to life, but probably could not choose it if someone went about ending the infant's life. Unless an advocate appeared.
Monetarily you are correct. Very few husbands/fathers could fairly compensate their Wife/children's Mother for the their unselfish commitment to the family. Most men don't earn enough. But there are other compensations that money can never buy nor even rent that a wife and mother enjoy. You never saw her manipulate (in a loving way ) Ward or directly state her opposition to his stance on an issue and see Mr. Cleaver take a hard pause? Romance...a most lovely experience but truly that family did and some members to this day still do exist. There are good and bad events in all our lives, for the living we still have a chance to make a better today or tomorrow. I believe that most if not all mothers want the best for their children, but yes dear Cady, there are some mothers who do poorly in their role.
True, for women who want domesticity, but that shouldn't be their only option. Let's not forget, we are talking about characters on a tv show written by comedy writers. In real life, wouldn't you find it sad that a woman would have to resort to manipulation to have a voice in matters that impact her own life? Women in the 50's were denied rights that would allow their independence and freedom: http://www.ehow.com/info_8147784_womens-rights-1950s.html#ixzz1ukySslYW How can men who love and respect women, allow them to be treated as second class citizens?
Agreed. Art imitating life, perhaps? Aren't we only talking about politics after all? One person's manipulation is another's negotiation. June was trying to get Ward to lighten up or see another perspective...she was usually about others. A man does what he can, influences what can. The world is an imperfect and many times an unfair place. I do not see women as second class citizens and treat people accordingly (i.e. open doors for children and women of all ages, the handicapped/disabled and elderly males).
Unfortunately for her the unborn don't care for her that much…..she paints a bulls eye across each and everyones forehead. And well….Gods opinion is one she does not respect.
DixNickson said, They have lost respect but how can you say they have lost control? Hell they can kill human beings…they can control the world. What if every woman aborted every male conceived or the majority? What could men do? NOTHING. No woman is forced to get surgery…get bigger breasts etc. They control their own bodies and can do what they want. They do have free will…even over bodily processes. They can kill should they get pregnant…that is a big one wouldn't you say? And if you don't want to be a woman today…you can change into a man. The pro-choice woman wants her cake and eat it too. Wants to kill her unborn if she doesn't want it..and if she does she can force the father to pay.
Well, for my .02 I'd choose the living over the not yet living any day of the week. But fortunately this is not about forcing everyone to have abortions. (except maybe in your head) This is actually about freedom to decide for yourself, or not. You Churchmouse, vote for less freedom to choose and would prefer to force your will on others, I, on the other hand, will let them (and you) to decide for themselves. And as far as your "Magic Sky Daddy"... I can't understand why you would expect me or anyone else to bow down to his will anymore than we do to yours.Trying to use religion against the irreligious is like trying to use reason and science against the religious. I instead would have you look at Deuteronomy 22: 13-29 because it contains a bunch of stuff you are perfectly willing to ignore about stoning non-virgins who get married, taking a captive woman as your wife, killing people who cheat on their spouse, etc. So why is some of the bible ok to ignore, but other parts you would use to justify forcing your will on others? I take it there is no "Gods will" on the subject of consistency? Or are you in favor of stoning people to death, etc?
Most likely she just does not agree with YOUR interpretation of what God's opinion is. http://rcrc.org/
So how about the people in the link provided? Do you respect their understanding? Or do you only respect the understanding of those who agree with you?
I think media targets and deceives the masses. It can create or snuff desires. It can expose one to ideals that aren't in their best interest. It can portray the unnatural as natural and wrong as right. Perception is king in a society that can only see the emperor's new clothes. This doesn't empower people, it robs them of a critical thought process.
And who is behind the media? What powers the media. But you can't blame everything on the media…people should know better especially if they are walking in faith. We have free will and we have minds to differentiate right from wrong. I know what you are saying however and agree.
No I do not respect them at all. They are pro-abortion in every sense of the Word. They are going against Gods Word…can't say it any clearer than that. For those who love and follow Christ…..it is not about them…and what they THINK SHOULD BE RIGHT…BASED ON SOCIETY. It is totally about what God says, standing up and following it. It is about truth and faith.
When things are done in volume then they are cheaper. Also, some of the costs can be covered by taking it out of their food stamps.
