Mommy, is it safe to come out of the womb?

Let's talk about partial birth abortions. You know, when the baby's head is still in the birth canal but the rest of the baby is outside the woman's body.

Now, it is a common misconception that partial birth abortions are late-term. This is not necessarily the case at all.

Normally, in most pregnancies, the baby comes out head first. But with partial birth abortions the abortionist maneuvers the fetus inside the womb so that it will come out feet first. In a partial birth abortion it is very important that the head not come out. With a partial birth abortion, the baby may or may not have a chance of long-term survival, depending on age. But even if there is no chance of long-term survival, this does not mean the baby cannot be born alive. In some cases the baby's body is flailing around while the abortionist firmly grasps the little abdomen to keep the head stuck in the vagina.

All this was perfectly legal in America before 2003. The maximum punishment for performing a partial birth abortion is a fine not to exceed $50,000, and/or up to two years prison sentence. Usually for first offences, there is no prison sentence, and the fine is much less.

Unfortunately, the law has not really prevented these partial birth abortions. Instead, abortion doctors now first inject a concentrated saline solution into the fetus's heart, and then go ahead with the partial birth procedure. Supposedly, the fetus is terminated before the partial birth procedure, so it is perfectly okay. But if this is the case, why then do abortion doctors still vacuum out the baby's brains?!?

The truth is that the abortionist is not entirely sure that the baby is dead. If they really were sure, there would be no point to go ahead with the partial birth abortion procedure. There are no guarantees that the saline solution will kill the baby. The abortion doctor wants to make absolutely sure the fetus is dead and that there will be no accidental born alive baby to deal with.

I just want a straight answer from pro-choicers: Do you support partial birth abortions or not ?
There are plenty of pro-choice politicians who refuse to clearly state their position on this issue.

 

Just in case you were wondering, the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act (2002) apparently does not protect these babies, because it is only a partial birth, the head is still inside the woman during the time of the abortion. And while it is (usually) illegal to abort a fetus after 24 weeks into the pregnancy, it can be difficult to prove the exact age. It is also nearly impossible to prove whether the life of the fetus had actually been terminated prior to a partial birth abortion procedure, and most abortion doctors performing the procedure would rather not know. The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act (2003) does not apply if the life of the fetus was terminated before the partial birth abortion procedure, because then prosecutors cannot prove that it was actually the partial birth procedure that killed the human fetus.

 

In the days when PBAs were performed, some spinal fluid was removed from the head to make it easier to pass through the birth canal. One frequent reason for the procedure was hydrocephalus, which causes dramatic swelling of the head, up to two and a half times normal size.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1531

18 USC § 1531 - Partial-birth abortions prohibited

(a) Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both. This subsection does not apply to a partial-birth abortion that is necessary to save the life of a mother whose life is endangered by a physical disorder, physical illness, or physical injury, including a life-endangering physical condition caused by or arising from the pregnancy itself. This subsection takes effect 1 day after the enactment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrocephalus

Hydrocephalus (pron.: /ˌhaɪdrɵˈsɛfələs/), also known as "water on the brain," is a medical condition in which there is an abnormal accumulation of cerebrospinal fluid (CSF) in the ventricles, or cavities, of the brain. This may cause increased intracranial pressure inside the skull and progressive enlargement of the head, convulsion, tunnel vision, and mental disability. Hydrocephalus can also cause death

 

firstly lets start by using the correct term shall we - Intact dilation and extraction, partial birth abortion is just a phrase coined by pro-lifers and doesn't actually exist.
Secondly everything you have written is your own assumption, there is no evidence to support that IDE's are done for any other reason than a life threatening danger to the pregnant woman or that the fetus has a disability incompatible with life .. until you can come up with something other than the hyperbole of pro-life propaganda then you remain nothing more than a sensationalist.

By the way how is your campaign to kill newborn downs syndrome and mixed race babies coming along?

 

That's just another diversionary tactic used by supporters of abortion, to give the impression that late-term and partial birth abortions are only used on defective babies.

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/pbafact10.html

 

Abortion is abortion, and I support it, for whatever reason the woman feels she needs one.

 

THANK YOU for giving a straight answer to my question. Now if only other pro-choicers would do the same...

 

Were these partial birth abortions preformed for elective reasons, or for fetuses that couldn't survive past birth?

 

NPR, which is fairly non-biased but tends to be liberal leaning, claims that:

I am not completely opposed to euthanasia on defective babies, but there is absolutely no excuse for partial birth abortions on normal healthy babies. And partial birth abortions are NEVER medically necessary for the woman's health:

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/pbafact11.html

 

Back in the days when they were performed, many of them were 2nd trimester abortions, legal for any reason. The late-term abortions were for medical reasons. That is why it is confusing when some doctors say they performed XX number of abortions mostly on healthy fetuses. It is because those were 2nd trimester abortions.

 

Ok, lets gets some ground information first.

What do you consider late-term .. everything in your link is referring to 20-24 weeks, these are not late-term and still fall under the viability limit established in row vs wade (24 weeks) so it is irrelevant whether they were elective or not .. now if you want to debate lowering that limit then I'd go along with that.

Anything over that 24 week limit is purely done for medical reasons, elective abortions after 24 weeks are illegal.

 

Most late-term abortions are probably elective. There are no current reliable statistics on the subject. The claim that most late-term abortions are done because of serious maternal health problems is one of the big deceptions being used to justify abortion.

http://www.politicalforum.com/abortion/266663-late-term-abortions-real-reasons-they-performed.html

 

They're most likely not elective. You're calling abortions at 16 weeks late term and they're not. That's second trimester. If you want to talk late-term abortions, that's 3rd trimester. Third trimester abortions are done for medical reasons.

 

At 24 weeks, the baby has a 50% chance of survival. That's in the second trimester.
Even before 21 weeks when the fetus has no chance of long-term survival, the baby will still be born alive. How long it survives outside the uterus is dependant on several factors, but the time can be anywhere between 1 hour to 1 week. Babies prematurely born at 22 weeks typically do not survive, but they do wiggle around for an hour or two like any other baby, gasping for breath, until they eventually go unconscious (though their heart continues to beat for several hours more). This is if the baby does not receive medical intervention, by the way.

 

No the deception is pro-lifers saying most late-term abortions are elective so they can get their way of controlling women.

 

If we are to believe a survey done by the Guttmacher Institute (a strongly pro-abortion organization) that was done in 1988, only 2 percent of abortions occurring after 16 weeks were done because of fetal defects.

Ronald J. Fitzsimmons, former Executive Director of the National Coalition of Abortion Providers, stated in 1995 that "the vast majority of these [partial birth] abortions are performed in the 20-plus week range on healthy fetuses and healthy mothers."

Since then Fitzsimmons now admits that late-term abortions are rarely used for "agonising" medical reasons. He wrote: "The abortion rights folks know it, the anti-abortion folks know it, and so, probably, does everyone else. These are healthy women with healthy unborn babies."

Martin Haskell, the Ohio doctor who developed the "Intact Dilation and Extraction" (IDE) procedure, asserted in one paper that 80 percent of his patients choose it because it is safer and more convenient than the alternatives. There was no medical necessity. Another leading late-term abortion doctor, the now-deceased Dr. James McMahon, presented similar statistics before a congressional committee in 1995. These two doctors together performed 500 late-term abortions in one year, and there are at least eight other doctors who administer it.

 

That's at the very end of the second trimester. And that is also the limit of viability. Abortions at 16 weeks are not late-term abortions.

 

And perfectly legal.

No, the limit of viability is after 21 weeks. It really depends how you define "viability". The viability point is when a fetus is considered to have a 50% chance of survival, so that would indeed be 24 weeks.

 

24 weeks is currently the limit for abortion. In most states. In the UK.

 

"" Mommy , is it safe to come out of the womb?""


""No, because there's a man out there who wants to shove sandpaper up your vagina one day if you dare to do somthing he doesn't like...""

 

Meaning that you can get an abortion at 24 weeks, when the fetus is viable.

 

There are not many places you can get an abortion that late for any reason. Women won't be asking for elective abortions by then anyway.

 

When do you consider a fetus to be viable? Most sources state that a fetus is not truly viable until 24 weeks and that the odds of survival outside the womb increase even more at 26-27 weeks. But please, do make it clear what your numbers are because you keep referring to second trimester abortions as 'late term' and you continue to confuse everyone posting.

 

11% of abortion providers offer abortion at 24 weeks.
(http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html)

By the way, at 23 weeks the baby is already a strong kicker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUCA-UPUEdw

 

Strong kicker is no indicator of strong and fully functioning lungs which are what the fetus really needs to survive outside the womb.