OK. Suppose Israel Strikes iranian Nuclear Facilities...

The Shaws regime was in place before and after the coup.

 

Not exactly. The Mosadeegh was elected by the people and supported by the Shura council.. At that time Saudi Arabia was getting a 50-50 revenue split from ARAMCO. Iran was only getting 13% of their oil revenue.. the rest went to the British oil company which evolved into BP.

Mosdeegh tried to negotiate a better deal so the new Iranian democracy would have money for education, infrastructure etc. The Brits refused. So Mosadeegh and the Shura council decided to nationalize the oil company.. which also means buying out the assets.

At that point the Brit decided that Mosadeegh was a Communist and that the Soviets were involved.. They weren't, but this was Cold War days... and the Soviets would be waiting with open arms if possible.

Kermit Roosevelt and Shwartzkoff's father started buying demonstrators with cash and attempted to kill the Mosadeegh several times... until he finlly escaped Iran.. Then Schwartzkoff's father set up the SAVAK modeled after the Gestapo.. and the Shah returned to Iran.

 

It appears that if Israel attacks Iran the resultant conflict would be much greater than most anticipate according to a leader of Hezbollah:

Additionally we should anticipate it will generate a war between Lebannon and Israel.

http://news.yahoo.com/iran-could-strike-u-bases-israel-attacks-hezbollah-055101337.html

Israel, by defying the United Nations Security Council's efforts to ensure that Iran doesn't produce a nuclear weapon, could possibly set off a war encompassing all of the Middle East and it could literally result in the ultimate destruction of Israel as a nation. The United States cannot prevent the destruction of Israel if the Muslim nations unite against Israel and Israel is threatening to light the fuse that could cause this if it attacks Iran.

 

That would be the worst case scenario IMO and very possible.

Doesn't Hezbollah have anti aircraft guns now?

I think it would put Haifa, Ashdod, Tel Aviv at tremedous risk... plus blow up refineries and port facilities.

I also have doubts about the IDF.. I just don't think they are the army they were in 1967..

So why is Bibi yelling at US Ambassador Shapiro? Why is he making threats?

Bibi should be talking with the Iranians... and I am no longer convinced that punishing sanctions are the right course of action.

 

You never get around to identifying what was "not exactly"

 

The Shah was out on his butt..

 

The Shaw got scared and left the country for a couple of weeks.

 

Iran is an NPT member state and Israel is not. Israel doesn't have a "dog in the hunt" because the Iranian nuclear weapon concern is expressly limited to the NPT and the UN Security Council.

"Punishing sanctions" actually are the answer but they must be applied without any political bias. We have four known rogue nuclear nations in N Korea, India, Pakistan and Israel. Of the four only one is being addressed with "punishing sanctions" which is absurd. Why isn't the UN Security Council addressing all four rogue nuclear weapon nations as it should based upon the NPT? Instead of doing what it should be doing it is addressing only N Korea which is known to have nuclear weapons and Iran which is known to not have nuclear weapons. The politicaly hypocracy of the UN Security Council in dealing with the issue of nuclear proliferation cannot be ignored and that is the root cause of the problem.

Iran has previously stated that it will submit to any and all IAEA inspections if Israel will join the NPT, dismantle it's nuclear weapons, and allow IAEA inspections. It has simply demanded equality with Israel and that is a fair demand.

 

I hadn't thought of it in terms of Iran being the only one sanctioned.

I also don't think there is any evidence for nuclear weapons.. just a free floating hysteria.

What does Bibi get out of it... the tantrums and all?

 

"I think it would put Haifa, Ashdod, Tel Aviv at tremedous risk... plus blow up refineries and port facilities."

Taxcutter says:
Some, but not much. All the rocket attacks that have been going on for months have given the Israelis to build up the most air-tight anti-missile defenses on the planet. their new Iron Dome system has proven quite effective after an initial debugging process. The Israelis also have US-made patriot batteries around their cities.

The IDF will kick the Hezbollah's butts. The IDF is now onto their tunneling tactics and have US-made "thump trucks" (usually used for oil explorations but were found useful for finding tunnels as far back as Vietnam. Also the other factions would love to see Hezbollah engaged by the IDF. These other rag-tag Lebanese (Christians, Druze, and Sunnis) might use the opportunity to take Hezbollah down a peg or two - especially since their patrons (Syria and Iran) would be other wise distracted. Iran cannot support Hezbollah in Lebanon. Assad is fighting his own people. Hezbollah will be defeated in detail.

I'm sure the Iranians will try to fire some of their trash-can missiles at the US forces in the area. the Iranian lack of practice with these weapons will limit their capability. Some won't do anything. Some will explode on the launcher rails. Who knows where they will go. Add to that the US forces are very mobile - they simpl;y get in their vehicles and haul butt or are defended as well as the Israelis. The US invented anti-missile missiles and we practice all the time.

What you will have (presuming Hezbollah tries to help Iran by attacking Israel) is an amateur force better suited at intimidating other Lebanese up against the second-best field army on the planet. In the Gulf, amateur, untrained zeroes will have little success hitting well-defended US forces.

Face it folks. The Iranians (and Hezbollah) are just not very good at anything but killing civilians. Anybody that shoots back generally kills them.




"The United States cannot prevent the destruction of Israel if the Muslim nations unite against Israel and Israel is threatening to light the fuse that could cause this if it attacks Iran."

Taxcutter says:
You gotta be kidding. The Saudis and other Gulf states would be delighted to see Iran humiliated and better yet, destabilized. They are not gonna come to the rescue of the regional bully. As for the sum of all Muslim nations vs Israel...the Israelis have whipped them before, back when they had the best Soviet equipment. Their current weapons are antiques. They have zero logistical capability and little mobility. Most Muslim armies cannot move more than fifty kilometers from their bases. These are police armies meant to intimidate their own citizens. Most Muslim countries keep their armies underserved by motor vehicles as a means of keeping coups down.They have monumentally poor leadership, and their nations are so corrupt as to make Chicago look honest by comparison.

All the Muslim nations have is numbers and morale - a good recipe for getting a lot of soldiers slaughtered, just like the Iran-Iraq war.

 

Taxcutter: What is Israel's objective in threatening Iran and yelling at Ambassador Shapiro?

If Israel is so confident that they can beat "all" the Arabs why are they involving the US? It puts us in a really awkward position as world class hypocrites.

I think an attack on Iran would have far reaching and unexpected consequences.

Shia will riot in Arabia, Bahrain, Yemen and Iraq.. putting lots of innocent Americans at risk. I can see Nigerian oil being interrupted by strikes. Christians in Africa and elsewhere will be perceived to be a threat.

Iran might lash out and bomb oil facilities in Kuwait and Al Hasa... No telling what might happen with Egypt and Libya.

All this so Israel can continue to avoid a peaceful solution to the Palestinian problem?

 

That's Iran that defies the United Nations Security Council's efforts not Israel, if attacking Israel will follow the line just a few steps a head since there is a time limit to act,


"Destruction of Israel nation" lol, first arm them with jet fighters then suggest we surrender ok?


Following your logic, Israel can claim that the next rocket from Gaza will result in the destruction of Gaza and all that assist its terror organizations? so Gaza will be held responsible for an Israeli heavy attack on Iran? or are we using the same special law book just for Israel than the rest of the world?

 

Nukes are kept for military reasons, to defend the state that might face annihilation, there is no other reason to keep it,

It doesn't demand equality as long as refers to Israel as an enemy that MUST be destroyed, it wants to hinder its enemy...., if it really wants "equality" as you say it would make peace, if it really wants to disarm the MD of Nukes it would let the Palestinians make peace and no need for Nukes or developed weapons of any kind, all it wants is to use its UN majority to advance its own goals, the "innocent" stance is not sticking here.

 

By this logic then Iran needs nukes because Israel presents a very real and creditable threat to Iran and Israel has nuclear weapons. Of note Iran is not in violation of it's voluntary commitments under the NPT (yet). The NPT prohibits a nation from producing a nuclear weapons and Iran has not done that. It also prohibits a nation from delivering fissionable nuclear materials to another entity that would produce a nuclear weapon. Iran has not done that. The UNSC resolutions against Iran deal with the possible theoretical and technological work being done in Iran related to nuclear weapons and that work is not prohibited by the NPT.

How about this, both Iran and Israel are members of the United Nations and have a treaty obligation with all other member nations to not attach each other. Iran is not going to launch an offensive attack against Israel and has never threatened to do that. Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons and while Israel and the United States are afraid of the possibility that Iran could someday produce a nuclear weapon there is no actual evidence that Iran plans on doing this.

We can also note that using nuclear weapons cannot be allowed for ANY reason. Nuclear war is unacceptable, period.

The political leaders of Iran have never expressed the desire that "Israel" be destroyed but instead that "Zionism" must be destroyed. Iranian political leaders have also stated that Zionism will eventually be destroyed from inside of Israel.

We can also note that the Palestinians have expressed their willingness to accept the conditions of UNSC Resolution 242 in the establishment of a Palestinian State. It is Israel that is choosing to violate the conditions of UNSC Resolution 242 which is preventing a peaceful resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict today. Israel is illegally occupying the West Bank, Golan Heights and E Jerusalem in violation of UNSC Resolution 242, the Geneva Conventions and International Law today.

 

Uh-huh; that's what was said in 2006, and Hezbollah are much more powerful and knowledgeable about their enemy than they were back then.

...except that Hezbollah is allied with Lebanon's most popular Christian party (and notable Druze parties).

 

'Shah', not Shaw. Then he came back, America got a nice, compliant thug for its proxy dictatorship, the Iranians got pissed-off with him, there was an Islamic revolution, and all the sh1t America and Israel are now whining incessantly about, is the direct result of America's meddling in its greed for oil. You, who are so quick to demonise Iran, really need to start thinking for once.

 

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2006/10/15/why-hezbollah-defeated-israel/

 

When did we ever do something against Iran? did we create a militia to fight it? or do you mean the moment they declarted to be our enemies they can also claim "self defence"? - it doesnt work that way,

Neither me nor my country made the sanctions on Iran, those who traded with it in the past did, they made the sanctions beacuse they didnt see things so ...... simple as you put them, true that Iran has a long way from it, even our experts say Iran havnt decided yet if they go for the bomb or not, but the implications of having a bomb will be so beneficial to Iran that its obvious that unless sanctioned they will go for it, now, seems to me that a country that is led by one person basiclly that cummunicates with God directly at least twice a week, built undercover facilities long before its scientists were hit, actively fights another state and actively call for its destruction (ill get to that later) should not have a Nuke, so does the countries that sanctions Iran,

They have a way out, the entire world doesn't want this to escalate, they offered Iran a great deal to have Nuclear power of face sanctions and they chose sanctions, I dont think that's just an honor thing...they wouldn't suffer that for so long if they planned to accept that deal in the future, they are going for the bomb unless they face a very decisive opposition.

Iran IS fighting Israel every day through Hamas and Hizbi's, it costs her money as she gains influence, that's not a friendly thing to do so we look at it as an act of aggression (or do we need to see it as "criticism"?), it influences both Lebanon and Palestinian authority gov's, now it interferes with Syria internal conflict, point is they are not here just to raise flowers in their gardens, as a country that is not by any mean under threat of destruction - they are very active in the region.

your estimation that Iran will not attack Israel may be true, we don't know what the next Mulla will decide - oops - I meant what will God tell him..., but that's not the only threat when dealing with a country that employees at least 2 terror organisations. to those that Iran declared they are its enemies, this is too much of a threat, either back off from your threats and terror attacks - make peace OR stop your Nuclear program that is made without supervision, if not the ones under threat should do what they must.

After the US used it, the threat of it is enough for the time being, no one knows what tomorrow will bring, Nuclear war will eliminate those that find it unacceptable, lets agree we all need to do what we can to avoid from it

OK, lets discuss this, what's "must be destroyed"? when someone says that to a judge let say, "you must be destroyed", do you think the judge will laugh at this unharmful jest or will he jail that person for threats?

What does it mean "Zionism" must be destroyed? is that some political group (who?) or does he mean the elected gov officials? how many ppl needs to be destroyed exactly? if its just 10,000-20,000 lives than perhaps we over reacted....

Palestinians are sadly divided, they have been even in Arafat days as I remind you Hamas kept the suicide attacks while Arafat made peace with Rabin, now to be fair there are many in Israel that are happy that the conflict continues because they dont want to give back any land, by it a biblical thing or mistrust, most however do want peace, we dont we? I think of 3 main diffrences:

Jerusalem - Left dont mind to split it, Right doesnt want (might agree to some areas),PLO wants to split, Hamas doesnt want to split- wants the Jews to split from it.

Refugee - Left i think agrees that refugees return to the Palestinian state, Right I dunno, PLO dunno, Hamas refugees return to inside of Israel

Israel - PLO willing to agree Israel does indeed exists (but not that it has the right to), Hamas if at all than something even more degrading than the PLO offer - I say, do you want to make peace or play around? I support only peace on mutual respect dont pull that Arab honor thing on us.

 

Zionism is a political ideology that advocates the violations of the Rights of the Individual based upon ethnic/religious ideologies. As many have noted it shares many similiarities with the Nazi political ideology that also violated the Rights of Individuals based upon racial/philisophical ideologies. I know that this comparison often upsets many Jews that endorse Zionism but the similiarities of oppression of those that don't meet the "criteria" established by each regime are beyond dispute. Many Jews are very much aware of the similiarities and condemn Zionism as well because of the oppression and violation of the inalienable Rights of Individuals. Zionism does not represent the Jewish People and opposing Zionism is not anti-Semitic.

Of note no one has to be killed in order for Zionism to be destroyed.

Sort of taking all things together we can start with the fact that respecting the political sovereignty and territorial integrity of a nation does not require respect for the government in charge of that nation. It also doesn't require acceptance of the political ideology upon which a nation was founded. Netanyahu, for example, has stated that the Palestinians must acknowledge that Israel has a 2000 year old claim to the lands of Israel and that's pure BS. The Palestinians do not have to acknowledge that as being valid. They only have to accept that Israel exists as a nation today and it has a right to peace and it's territorial integrity.

It can also be pointed out that the Palestinians do not have to accept territory that was acquired by war in 1967 as being a part of the territory or Israel as the United Nations Security Council, in Resolution 242, clearly established that the territory occupied by Israel in 1967 did not belong to Israel. Israel has additionally violated international laws and the Geneva Conventions by allowing Israeli civilians to immigrate to territories under Israeli military control. The Palestinians do not have to acknowledge that territories that are illegally occupied belong to Israel. The West Bank, the Golan Heights, and E Jerusalem are not parts of the territory of Israel.

While in the past Hamas and the PLO disagreed that has changed as both have expressed a willingness to comply with the conditions of UNSC Resolution 242 which includes the acknowledgement of Israel's right to exist and the territory of Israel once it removes itself from the territories occupied during the 1967 6-Day War. They have stated that they will comply with the provisions of UNSC Resolution 242 and it is Israel, not the Palestinians, that are currently preventing a peaceful settlement to the conflict. It is Israel that is refusing to comply with it's treaty obligations as a UN Member state to comply with all UN Security Council resolutions in refusing to comply with UNSC Resolution 242 today.

Yes, even if both Israel and the Palestinians implement UNSC Resolution 242 there will still be matters that will remain unaddressed. The non-Jewish population of what became Israel that were forced to flee in terror as refugees in 1948, and their decendents, are technically citizens of Israel in exile. This is a natural right and they should be offered the Right of Return to their homeland. Additionally any Arabs that owned land in what became Israel that had their property siezed by the Israeli government are entitled to just compensation for their financial losses. While peace can be established without these two issues being addressed they are issues related to the prior violations of the Rights of these Individuals that deserve resolution.

 

Israel needs only A-bomb the one most remote site as did America at Hiroshimo, in order to make the point,... "never again,... or Else."

Russian can not intervene here because the Jews have nothing to lose, and Moscow has millions of citizens and the Kremlin at the cost of a second Bomb.

The jews in Israel today need to call the world's bluff now, before they are further manipulated into a corner the same way Hitler systematically and step by step gain their respect for his orderly march into the gas chambers.

 

Now is the moment to defang Hezabollah while Syria is to busy to support them.

Gaza must be told that the people there will be pushed into Egypt, across the border, where their bombs and terrorism can be better controlled unless all conflict, rockets, and propaganda against Israel ceases immediately.

Egypt is to split between the new government and the military to do anything about such a move against Hamas.



The whole world must contemplate the consequebces of an ultimatum to Iran from Israel to disarm, withdraw from Syria and Lebanon, dismantle their A-bomb factories, or first the initial Atomic distruction of one remote site after the next until such terms are met.

And this must happen before the next election inthe USA, so America can see what Obama decides to say and do.

 

C'mon, man, we can't just let the Iranians keep their own oil. Our conglomerates need both the oil AND the profits. And Mosaddegh would have been an irresponsible Mohamm and eventually threatened Israel anyway. And, you know, we can't abide that.

 

It would be a huge mistake to evict the rest of the Palestinians.

Morsi is now reforming the police dept.

If Israel wants to bomb Iran, they should go right ahead and do it.. Leave Americans out of it.

So why don't you head for Lebanon now and "defang" Hezbollah?

 

Hiroshima, a remote site??? It was one of Japans major industrialised cities. You do know that the US nuked two Japanese cities?

Israel have nothing to lose so they will nuke Moscow if Russia intervene????

Which bluff is this? Manipulating into a corner - what are you going on about?

 

His post is supremely bizarre to say the least.