Proper temperament for gun ownership?

Disagree with a few of these points.
3. If you must ask for a license, then it loses being a right, and become a privilege. Government has no power when it comes to weapons.

5. This would have to be carefully controlled, but in principle, I agree. However, once the debt to society has been paid, gun rights are automatically reinstalled.

 

Where do the gangbangers who commit most of the murders fit in?

 

Ive experienced both types.

Ive no issue with the collector. Cars or guns, doesnt matter so long as they're responsible with them.

I am not a fan of folks hoping for an excuse to shoot someone. Most of them are just fantasizing about excitement and adventure, and would react responsibly in a real scenario.

But not all. There are certainly some whackos out there. But theres nothing to be done about it. We cant read minds or predict futures. We can only judge actions. We can restrict them from firearm ownership after they do something to warrant it. Until then, well, liberty comes with a certain amount of danger. No other way about it.

 

I only have a problem with two types of people:

1. The actively violent. Those currently perpetuating a shooting.

2. The negligent. Those who constantly print on others, who don't keep actions open, who shoot without sighting a target, who drink and shoot, etc.

The rest are fine by me. Open or concealed.

 

3. The reason I was OK with a license to concealed carry is because your right to bear arms is not infringed if you can open carry. I'm good with "Constitutional Carry" as well, but if the state wants all parties to open and forthcoming about carrying their guns, I can live with it.

5. I have no concern for anybody who uses a gun to rob or rape somebody. As far as I'm concerned, they forfeited that right when they committed a premeditated act of violence. I wouldn't mind someone getting their gun rights back after paying their debt if they were simply guilty of being a little zealous in defending themselves or their property. (Dad shoots a guy for trying to sleep with his minor daughter after catching them in the act and such, when he didn't really need to shoot the guy or maybe a road rage defense killing where he started the argument before shooting somebody.)

 

As far as the toy collectors go they don't buy it because they need it it's just a hobby like people that buy RVs or Bugatti Veyrons or fancy motorcycles they buy it because they want it need doesn't justify it nor does practicality. They want it so they purchase it not really anything to discuss their.

Then I don't think I've ever encountered what you would consider a hopeful type. I've run across people that talk big but have never been placed in the situation. So I would consider it to be naive that you're mistaking for Wishful thinking.

I have a few toys guns are part of it but so are tools and I have a pet dog I don't need any of these things but I want them. That being said I am also a person who carries a pistol and I hope I never have to fire it at somebody. I have used them defensively and thank all goodness on this planet that I didn't have to fire.

This is the attitude I see very commonly. But then again I don't hang around with a whole lot of veterans and active members in the military I have a few friends that were but most of my friends weren't.

 

He looks like my dog. Same white tipped nose and tail and black back. Mine was a husky mix. I had to give him away because my family and I move from Alaska to Florida.

 

I am always thinking of the textual part of the constitution, and leaving emotions out of it. You rights are infringed because you want to carry concealed and currently need PERMISSION from the government to do so. Simple as that. To license any part of owning or using a guns as "keep and bare" arms, it does not give the government the right to control hidden carry, open carry or any form of carry. Rights must be as absolute as possible, or they are privileges, and privileges can be taken away where rights cannot.
WE need to remove most of the controls of the state, because they have no legal power via the constitution to have that power. It is always dangerous to let the state have anything more than the least power required to maintain a society.

Now if never having a gun again is part of the individual sentencing, so it can be appealed, I MIGHT consider it under certain RARE circumstances, but not as a blanket law, as being unconstitutional removal of second amendment rights. They paid their price to society, let them too get on with their lives.

 

Sorry for the late responses to all. Life and whatnot.

I am glad to hear that your daughter is alive and well today because she had the proper training with and access to a firearm. I have no doubt that night had to weigh heavy on her, but I would not have wanted her to make any other decision if her safety was on the line. Good example of a tool used for its purpose.
As for the border crossing deal; I’m not a fan of people being killed over misdemeanor crimes. We’re better than that as a nation.

I’m not saying that any training should be mandated. Most sheriffs offices provide the service on a voluntary basis for citizens and I think that is enough. Outside of conceal carry license training it should be up to the owner, and that is mostly to make sure carries know the laws when it comes to carrying in their states. I think all responsible owners should know how to safely operate and store their weapons, but you can’t mandate responsibility.

I’ll address this post and let my response here pertain to any other statements about readiness when it comes to self defense. The military teaches drills for reacting to fire/threats with deadly force. You have to be ready physically and mentally for what in most cases will be a split second decision in a life or death situation. I understand the purpose and it is not what I refer to when I say “hopefuls”. I have heard the phrase “I wish someone would try me” and other variations enough to know there is a certain demographic of owners that want to be put in a situation that would require deadly force. I don’t think they are murders waiting to strike. I just think there is an eagerness that could affect decision making.

I am not claiming that the groups I’ve mentioned are prone to commit violent crime to fill some bloodlust. If you got that from anything I have said then I will accept that I didn’t make myself clear.
As I was growing up my father had a friend who fit the descriptions I listed in the op. He was robbed at knife point getting into his truck. As the perpetrator fled the friend went into his glovebox and pulled a pistol. Shot the man in his back and killed him. He did timefor it. Manslaughter I think.
I believe to this day it was an over eagerness to use his firearm that lead to him making a poor decision when it came time for him to use it. And it resulted in serious legal troubles.

That wasn’t my claim.

I reread the bit you quoted and realized I misspoke. The people I give a wide berth to are those carrying impractical weapons for daily self defense in public, such as a long rifle. That is where the carrying to make a statement comes into play. I think nothing of a holstered pistol carried on a hip. Sometimes ones garb based on weather doesn’t allow for a concealed weapon.

I agree that poverty is the largest driving force of violent crime. Seems we could find ways to elevate people from poverty if we wanted to make serious gains on our crime problem.
I’m not advocating for any new laws or removal of rights based on the groups I described.

They’re violent criminals and should be prosecuted under the law accordingly. I think that is clear which is why they aren’t a part of the op.

Fair enough. I can agree with that.

I take your point on gun collectors. Fair enough.
Glad to hear you’ve never had to fire. It sounds like you used good judgement and training to handle a bad situation.
Could be that the military has some allure to those hoping to carry out a hero fantasy? Not disparaging the military of course, I’m a member.

Sorry you had to give up your pup, but it sounds like you made the right call for him.
Mine is a border collie. All kinds of energy.

 

I was trying to make it clear that there is a difference between being mentally ready and being mentally eager and one can easily be mistaken for the other. I have talked about being mentally prepared, but was accused of wanting to shoot someone.

My problem is that because of our location, we can be awakened in the middle of the night by someone who needs help. Most likely that is what they want, but there is always that chance that they are up to more than than that. We keep a strong locked storm door between us and them until we are sure, but that would only buy us a bit of time.

 

I am glad to hear that your daughter is alive and well today because she had the proper training with and access to a firearm. I have no doubt that night had to weigh heavy on her, but I would not have wanted her to make any other decision if her safety was on the line. Good example of a tool used for its purpose.
As for the border crossing deal; I’m not a fan of people being killed over misdemeanor crimes. We’re better than that as a nation.

We are better than to allow it as a nation. The crime should NOT be a misdemeanor, but a class 1 felony, and treated as such. The problem is, the drugs coming through the border are killing 100,000s of Americans. Better to seal the border. If it means killing 20,000 illegal alien invaders and save 100,000 americans, the math is right in front of you. Shoot to kill, and the drugs will slow way down, saving many American lives. I am for americans FIRST. Armed drones would be great at stopping the invasion we are suffering. Shoot to kill. And don't cry about the children, in WW2 we slaughtered millions of children in the fire raids in Germany and Japan, as well as the dropping of atomic bombs. We kill 1/2 a million babies in the USA a year. So we really don't care about children, now do we?.

 

Not really true about WW2 bombing raids killing lots of kids. In Germany especially after Hamburg raid, most children like in Britain were evacuated to rural areas. Even the Japanese did this. They were aware of the coming of the B-San ( B-29 ) as well as what was happening in Germany.

 

Yeah, certainly understandable. I know there’s a difference between that and people who crave it. Maybe the former isn’t always great at articulating that. Sounds like you know what you’re talking about though.

Say, you wouldn’t happen to be a Christian now, would you?
Are you really relating abortion and war time casualties with murdering people on our southern border for seeking a better life? Come on man, that’s ridiculous. And as far as the drug thing goes, has prohibition ever worked? Or does it simply fill our jails and make the providers of illegal substances more violent? You want to solve the drug problem? Figure out why Americans want and need that mess. Drugs are a way to escape societies ills. Treat the disease, not the symptoms.
And before you call me unpatriotic or some nonsense, consider this. I’m proud to be an American and I’m proud of my country. Even in the face of our current political climate and the hardships people face getting here, we are still seen as a beacon of hope. A place where life can be better. Don’t you think that’s something to be proud of?

 

No one ever said that being a Christian entailed you to want to commit societal suicide.

 

"And the King will say, 'I tell you the truth, when you did it to one of the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were doing it to me!'“
Matthew 25:40
The Christian God calls for us to treat the most vulnerable in society with love and empathy. I suppose if you’re not a Christian then you’re not bound by such thought, at least not through religion. I feel that obligation regardless.

I find so many to believe America is the greatest nation on earth, yet are convinced it can’t handle immigrants wanting to join it. I’m certain it can.

 

While I understand your concerns about "The Hopefuls," there is nothing at all wrong with "The Toy Collectors." Why would it matter that they like guns, and gadgets for their guns? It's the hobby and fun part of owning a gun. Most of us don't just own practical guns. If we did, gun makers would just make pump shotguns, .308 bolt actions and .357 magnum revolvers. Anything else for the mainland U.S. is just a gadget.

 

I would say that irresponsible voting causes more longterm harm than do most guns.

 

People should be educated on how to be safe around firearms. It just shouldn't be a requirement to own firearms. "Should" is not the same as "must." Also, define educated in firearm safety? While I took two hunter safety classes as a youth, I had already learned firearms safety from my father, and he was more thorough. I think I was well trained in firearms safety by my father, although there was no certificate or formal training involved. I also think people should be educated before voting, again, with the difference between should and must.

 

We have plenty of laws to try to stop criminals. The problem is that they just don't work. Criminals disdain the law, hence it is next to impossible to make them obey it. Personally, I think we need to have harsh punishment for use of guns in crimes.

 

Scripture is not a suicide pact. We're also the biggest debtor nation on earth. The problem is that many of the immigrants don't want to join in. They want to benefits without the responsibilities and want to transform the US into the crapholes from which they came. I'm sure you can tell the difference. But then again, maybe you can't.

 

I agree for the most part which is why I said the latter offers more concern. My only issue is that it, in my mind at least, shows a mentality of guns as toys instead of tools. Makes me worry about the likelyhood of negligent discharge. Gave me plenty of reason to worry on deployment about bullets coming through the ceiling of my office.

Very possibly, but ultimately outside the scope of this discussion. As I said before I advocate for education on both topics. Not sure you can mandate either though.

Not everyone who owns a firearm had the benefit of a relative teaching them from a young age. If proper storage and general gun safety were common knowledge we wouldn’t have toddlers finding guns and shooting themselves/others or people letting off a round while “cleaning” a gun. In the army you spend more than a week being accountable for and carrying your firearm before you even see a bullet. I’m not saying anyone is required to go through gun safety classes, but I can’t think of a good reason why they shouldn’t.

Gun crime should be punished harshly. I agree. But I also think that criminals commit crime because they see no other way of getting by. Maybe putting more effort and money into elevating people from poverty would do more to lower crime rates than filling our jails with slave labor.

So are you saying that God is wrong? If you or others who share your view are not Christians, then all is good and you’re being consistent. But if you are Christians, I’m thinking the big man upstairs is pretty disappointed in you. I’d feel pretty crummy about myself if I followed a God that I figured didn’t know what the hell he was talking about.
Why would immigrants seeking a better life aim to tear down the country that they are moving to? That would leave them in the same desperate situation that made them leave their country in the first place. Most immigrants are either fleeing violence, starvation, or believe there are better opportunities for work. And maybe some of my tax dollars end up feeding people who came here looking for work and are having a hard time. I’m okay with that. The greatest nation on earth shouldn’t be seeing people within its borders starving to death. Or maybe you don’t think we’re actually so special?

 

Sorry neither of those is my biggest problem, Mine is the guy that goes out and buys a gun for home defense and never takes it out of box or the goes to the range and fires it. Guns aren't magic folks. Probably half or more of the folks killed by gang bangers weren't the intended target. Why? The only practice they get is at the crime scene and then it's a bit late. Same hold true for Joe Blow trying to whip that glock out of the box jam his only magazine in to the thing in the dark at three am and start firing. Assuming he remembers to put bullets in the magazine neither he nor anyone else has any idea where the rounds he fires are going to wind up. You want to defend your home great. I'm all for it but if you aren't putting at least 50 rounds or so a month down range you're more of a danger to innocent bystanders than you are to the perps. The next thing you'd better do is learn to think tactically. There will be places you don't want to send bullets if you can help it and train your family members too. the last thing you want is your kids popping out of their rooms into the middle of a fire fight in the dark.

 

Fair point. Wasn’t a part of my opening post, but proper firearms training is very important when it comes to gun ownership. Proper tool for the job is important too. Don’t want to over penetrate in a home defense situation. That’s why I used to keep a pump shotgun loaded with birdshot for home defense.

 

With anything you will always have "The Toy Collectors", especially among men. Where the person is in to cars, boats, gardening, or whatever you will have "The Toy Collectors" in those groups that buy to trick things out, or just because they can't get enough toys. I don't think they are inherently more dangerous than anyone else though....as a whole.

"The Hopefuls" do worry me as well though. I also look at a personal firearm as insurance and I hope to never use it. The people that are hoping to use it, may be more likely to look for an excuse.

 

I can see your point. I worry that the toy mentality leads to guns losing the respect from the owner that it deserves. Is it very dangerous? Probably not. Does it make them more likely to have accidents with their firearms? I think so.