Sick You Tube videos of "coming out" kids.

Fight back what? You think this is a fight? Start there and explain.

Live and let live, I say. But for gays who are 3% of the population to be "fighting" the rest of us to accept it as normal is not gonna happen. The Church doesn't accept marriage between alike sexes and never will. Gays have civil union. They can even get married in some states and prolly all of them eventually. But the traditional Church cannot and will not be forced to accept it. You can take that to the supreme court and they won't say so and no one can force the Church to do it. Go find some goofball gay church to get married in - that'll work. But mainstream Churches will never marry gays. Never. And they cannot be forced to.

Why should you care anyway? If you can get a civil union or a marriage sanctioned by the state, that's good enough from a legal standpoint. There's more to this "agenda" than civil rights. It's also an atheist desire to attack those of faith (Christians, Jews, etc), and a desire to make what is unnatural and immoral accepted as normal. And for what; self esteem?

Attacking the Church to gain some kind of personal satisfaction is mean-spirited and vindictive. People see it as such because it is. So, good luck with that.

 

Ah, but it IS happening. Almost 60% of the public thinks they should be allowed to wed, and those opposed to the idea are dying off, and I mean that quite literally. In a generation or two, the fact that marriage used to be limited to opposite sex couples will be just a historical footnote, and people will wonder why in the world we had such a restriction.

That's okay, as church's are dying off, too. A century from now, religion will be practiced by such a tiny portion of humanity, most won't even notice.

Religion's radical views on what is and is not "moral" have had their time, but that time is over, and that is a good thing.

 

That's NOT what I'm talking about. Please, pay attention and figure it out.

 

I think you are too optimistic in this regard, religious people have higher birthrates and I have seen projections that rise of atheism will slow down or even cease around 2030s.

 

I'm not really referring to atheism, but to non-religious spirituality. From my perspective, which may be biased because of the people I choose to have in my life, such a phenomenon appears to be gaining ground at an incredible rate. I give far more credibility to the lessons to be learned from NDE experiences and past/between life regressions than I do to any so-called "holy book". Those lessons are that we are all one, and that we incarnate many hundreds, if not thousands of times before we learn everything we need to learn. But all, eventually, one way or another, will.

 

whether you believe in religion's message or not..... religion will NEVER die off. The message may change, the gods may be different, but there has ALWAYS been religion throughout recorded history, and that fact is never going to change.

 

Religion won't die off, but it will become less and less relevant/practised.

 

I don't even believe that. History has shown, anytime you try to kill off a religion, it continues. Christianity was illegal, off and on throughout the past 2000 years, and is still illegal in many places today in the world. But there are still Christian Chinese in China.

Juadaism has been around for what, 5-6k years..... noone has been more persecuted than the Jews, yet the religion still exists.

Religion will always go through cycles as far as acceptence goes. I'm sure, here in North America, eventually there will be a govt that allows for Christianity to be deemed illegal..... But it will NEVER be killed off, and eventually, when Christianity is no longer illegal in a particular place, it will begin to grow again.
Will there be Scientologists in 1000 years.... to be seen. Will there still be baptists, presbyterians, lutherans? Who knows.... but the basic tennants of Christianity will always be around and will continue to go through upswings and downswings.


I think currently, it's just politically correct to bash religion. It's herd mentality. The 'cool kids' are doing it, so I want to be cool too so "YOUR RELIGION SUCKS!!!11"

 

I think it's influence will stay strong in the ME, Africa and parts of Asia for centuries to come. Don't get me wrong. But atheism/irreligious attitudes are ever increasing trends that show no sign of slowing down, and Christianity's influence in the west (on government) has dwindled to a mere shadow of it's former self. You forget that we are also living in an age of rapidly increasing technology and scientific understanding, and in many ways science is the new "religion", for it gives us an understanding of our external world/universe. Something religion also tries to do, albeit in a very primative/fantastical way.

I feel scientific theism/spirituality is the way forward.

 

That's not it at all. As science begins to answer more and more and more questions, the foundations of religion are being exposed for the frauds that they are, a process that will continue. At the same time, real spirituality is emerging as people reject dogma and seek truth. And they are finding that the truth is not what religion teaches. That process will continue and at some point will almost certainly be the prevailing, if not virtually universal philosophy of humanity.

I am currently working on a physics experiment that, if it functions as I expect (and hope) it will, will prove, at least as closely as science "proves" anything, that our physical environment is in fact a non-physical illusion that our consciousness only perceives as "real". That will be groundbreaking.

Have you ever pondered why in the world they buybull calls eating shellfish a sin? Did gawd really declare something as delicious as oysters and lobster to be forbidden, punishable by eternal torture if consumed?

That's preposterous.

The reason it is labeled a sin is because ancient man was stupid, and did not understand safe food handling, nor how diseases were spread, and frequently interpreted the presence of disease as literal real time punishment from gawd for prohibited behavior. So one day, somebody ate a bad batch of oysters, got violently ill, perhaps even died, and the tribal high priest declared that it must have been because gawd didn't want oysters to be eaten. The same thing applies to all the sexual prohibitions, promiscuous people got syphilis or the clap, or one of a host of others that today are completely curable with a dose of antibiotics, but back then were death sentences. Because of that, the high priest once again declared it to be punishments from gawd for being promiscuous.

But that's not how the actual Creator operates. It doesn't care if we eat oysters or not. It doesn't care what we do with our genitals, unless it's done in a non-loving way. It doesn't care if we like boys, girls, both, or neither. It cares that we learn. That we strive to become more loving, and more kind, and more helpful to one another. And it takes us countless lifetimes to learn everything we need to, but we will. That's why this place exists in the first place.

 

Atheist views such as you've written are harmful to civility and society. Human beings practice evil all the time because the devil is real and at work on this world. As people get older and wiser they tend to see the harmful effects of their bad ways. I pity evil people and I'm glad I'm not one of them. There are lots of good and decent people in this world raising their children to be good and decent - kids who will actually get married and THEN have children - and stay married and raise kids with wholesome morals. The evil people can learn the hard way and face the consequences of their actions. I won't wallow in the mud with them. Good is still good and bad is still bad - regardless of propaganda and agendas, those things will always matter.

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Yeah sure. LOL

 

This is what I'm talking about. It's cool to be bad. The consequences can be devastating. You can even lose your life. You can cause irreparable damage to loved ones, friends, or strangers. You can condemn your soul at worst.

I won't travel that road. People will think well of me and when I leave this world I'll know my presence and my deeds made it a little better.

 

Foolishness. The more we learn, the more we're mystified. I'm a big fan of astrophysics - you might call it a hobby. The physical mechanics of the universe(s) are the construct of an ultimate being. The complexity of it all it just too much to be explained. We call it God. I believe it's real. The foolishness of mankind to think we know it all is the height of idiocy. You have to understand that religion is a creation of man to worship God. Men wrote the Bible - the word of God, yes, but written by men as they were able to at the time - often in parables or symbolic means (can you imagine of that time trying to explain a solar eclipse or a supernova?). Men created the Church. Men devised the "rules" of religion. There lies the mistakes of religion - those made by man, not God. Christ died for our sins and God loves us. It's man that is flawed, not God. Science is language and experimentation of physics. Physics are God's tools. The universe(s) are the creation and manifestation of God.

Christianity's purpose is to foster the good in man and bring us closer to the purity of thought that is God. The evil in man is the opposition to that. If you're fighting the presence of God, you're fighting the existence of the universe itself. Think about it. It's all so much bigger than our small brains can comprehend - a wise person knows this. A foolish person doesn't. So I say to foolish people who want to fight the very nature of the universe and think it's cool to be bad - how little you really know. If you believe in good, you can have faith. And faith is a sign of wisdom and a good soul (spirit).

 

Eh, I think you're confusing a realistic perspective on the future of religion with atheism. True spirituality isn't religious in nature, but there are certain elements of spiritual truth in ALL religions. Personally I think most people do fine without needing religion as a guide, and many non-religious people are spiritually aware. The problem with religion in general is that it pities people against one another.

"Hell" is not eternal. One's choice of religion does not matter as long as they lead a good (selfless) life. Upon death God does not judge us, we judge ourselves based on all our actions, words and thoughts and how they impacted others. "Hell" and the "Devil" were invented to manipulate the hearts and minds of the unaware. These are my beliefs, certainly not those of your average "atheist".

 

what is 'true spirituality' if i may ask.

Perhaps hell is not eternal in your beliefs. What are they anyway since i've joined this discussion late? For christianity, hell is eternal. God judges us, we do not judge ourselves. Hell is real, satan is real.

Additionally, the ban on shellfish was for Israelites. It was partly for the reason of setting the Israelites apart from other nations and probably a health issue too seeing as refrigeration was not common then as now. All foods were deemed allowable in the new testament. I am continually surprised that atheists keep bringing this up. They either have never read this book tht they so vehemently oppose or they're just agendizing.

 

I'm referring to what I see as the true nature of the universe really, how I and many others are starting to perceive it. An understanding of spirituality free from religious holy books and texts, and based on our own experiences and those of others; more of an open "empirical" approach if you will. Evidence loved ones who have crossed over are still alive and not "dead" untill Jesus's second coming. Near death experiences. It's hard to explain how I've come to believe what I do, but I believe I've found spiritual truth.

To me, it doesn't make sense that one can live a perfectly good selfless life yet be condemned to Hell for eternity for simply picking the wrong religion. Or the idea that some of the most evil people who ever lived can be "pardoned" on their death beds through conversion... I believe we are held accountable for everything.

Don't get me wrong, I think all religions serve their purpose, but I believe the truth is not one of fire and brimstone awaiting non-believers. Search Google for a guy called "Victor Zammit", it provides an insight to spiritualist belief if you're interested.

 

What do you see as the true nature of the universe? What experiences are you talking about if you don't mind. And is this Mr.Zammit your spiritual guide as it were?

 

No, the more we learn the LESS we're mystified. That's what learning does.

Of course we don't know it all. But you're sitting here declaring that YOUR religion does. That the Jews, the Muslims, the Buddhists (who, incidentally, I think are closer to the "reality" than anyone else) are wrong. It is you offering arrogance.

 

arrogance? Is taking the word of THE Creator more arrogant than believing an already exposed less than truthful attorney out of Sydney?

 

I see the universe as a realm for our learning. An imperfect, confusing, sometimes dark and cruel plane of existence that allows our higher selves to experience various different incarnations and become more evolved spiritually. The reason there is so much suffering in this life is because we are not here to have a dream-run as it were, and suffering ultimately results from our own selfishness. I think it's important to try and connect to our high selves for inspiration - a far more developed entity than we ever imagine. I believe we come into this life and usually end up forgetting who we really are - getting caught up in selfishness, materialism and pointless rituals that end up distracting us from rendering service to others. Since we are all essentially parts of "God", the universal spirit, the best way to serve God is to serve others and reject selfishness in all it's forms.

It has elements of Buddhism as you can probably see, but I see Buddhism as a philosophy as opposes to a "religion".

My experiences... Well, numerous psychics and mediums I know were 100% genuine. Speaking to people who have had out of body and near death experiences. Loved ones giving me messages in dreams. Events I couldn't possibly begin to describe, very specific to my own experience in life. I couldn't "prove" these things to anyone without them having experienced it for themselves, and I wouldn't expect anyone just take my word for it

Victor Zammit is not my spiritual guide, he's someone wishing to share his own views and experiences, which tally up with mine and millions of other people. All presented in a rather scientific, rational way.

 

People who think they know more than the creator of the universe(s); that's real arrogance.

I didn't say that at all.

It all went right over your head. I feel sorry for you. I hope someday you'll see the really big picture and recognize that your place as a human being from a small planet called "Earth" is a very small place indeed, in the vast universe(s). We cannot ever know the mind of God and you have much to learn to achieve wisdom. I wish you well in your journey and I hope you do take that step toward wisdom. Closing your mind is a bad thing. Open it and see beyond yourself.

 

Somehow this guy has managed to not pop up on my radar prior to now. I'm just digging into it, but looks right up my alley at first glance.

 

If you're interested in taking a trip down my personal philosophical (and scientific) rabbithole, read this.

 

I agree with some of the words you speak (but not the position you come from) I think the truth would blow our minds! We are small, the universe is vast, but we are nevertheless all important. To me, putting complete faith in a Holy book or text written by men is putting your faith in man, not God.

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I agree with some of the words you speak (but not the position you come from) I think the truth would blow our minds! We are small, the universe is vast, but we are nevertheless all important. To me, putting complete faith in a Holy book or text written by men is putting your faith in man, not God.

 

Assuming that he is going in the direction I think he's going in (as previously stated, I just started digging), the information has way more credibility than books written thousands of years ago who thought disease was real time punishment from gawd for behaving improperly.