Statehood for Australia's Aboriginees?

Thank you for your reply. Time constraints again, necessitate a short response, but will get back at length when time allows. I believe that the assessment of any issue needs to be based on fact, and that in most instances, it`s base needs to begin at the beginning. If we "wind the clock back", to the beginning of the culture clash between Aborigines and Europeans, make an unbiased attempt to comprehend, the circumstances and environments that formed each at that time, and work forward to these times, we might arrive at something useful.

 

I notice you still have nothing but propaganda and racist fantasies! Nothing you say makes any sense to be honest! You sound like a disgruntled individual who unsuccessfully attempted to patronise people with your own pomposity! It's hard to see beyond ones own superficiality when your tangled up in your own ego! Putting somebody else down to make oneself look good is the biggest indicator of self conceit! I'm proud of my ancestors and history and take the bad with the good, but will always stop short of fabricating a story for justification! It's a bit of a joke to be honest! Time to grow some balls and except things the way they are without the fabricated nonsense in an attempt to feel good! Really, the only way to convince others that your take on history is true, is by providing some evidence! It's not really that hard! Don't expect for people to believe bullsh!t just because it sounds good and doesn't make us feel so bad! Time to start contributing to debates with evidence and not just fantasy!

 

Look at all the one-sided biased garbage we have been forced to tolerate in regards to the “stolen generation” propagated by Aborigines.

I’m not suggesting there was not instances whereby Aboriginal children were not taken away from their families by authorities, but under what circumstances were these children taken away?

Do we know the real truth, when we are only getting one side of the story all the time?

If some old Aboriginal man was going mutilate your daughters genitals by cutting it with glass and have sex with a 13 year old girl, under some tribal ritual you didn’t agree with. Wouldn’t you send your daughter away, or be pleased someone took her away to stop this barbaric practice from happening? How many young girls were sent away from their tribes by their mothers or were allowed to be taken away by their mother for protection from this barbaric practice, and now they are claiming these children were taken under the “stolen generation” because the mothers don’t want to admit the truth that they sent or gave away their own children for protection?

If Aborigines perform this kind of savage mutilation on adolescent girls, heaven only knows what they do to young boys under their boy-to-man tribal initiations.

I suspect parents not wanting their children’s genitals mutilated or their children raped would have sent them away or given them away to a society that didn’t practice these barbaric initiations and practices.

http://www.stolengenerations.info/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=156&Itemid=126

 

Another perfect example of you attacking the messenger and not the message. You say nothing in rebuttal but plenty of attacks on the writer personally.

 

When evidence isn't forthcoming the only thing you have is a calculated response on someone's motivation to continually say something without any given evidence! Evidence of claims would certainly provide a basis for genuine debate! Non evidence suggest it is heresay, and therefore just a nasty rumour for ones own end, especially when it is proclaimed confidently!

It's called fighting fire with fire at the end of the day!

 

Poison the well much?

 

Birds of a feather and all that

 

Yes well to be fair. I want debate, not vilification.

 

There are constant nasty vilifying comments made by the resident trolls on issues of boat people, gays and lesbians, Muslims, aborigines or anyone different for that matter! You can only make a judgement on what you read and how they portrait themselves! It is their communication on issues with such grotesque sentiment that makes one think that there are underlying issues! You can present a case without the nasty defamatory remarks aimed at groups of people! Yes, I have worked with Muslim people. I have worked with gay and lesbian people. Yes I have worked with a few aboriginal people from varying backgrounds. Stereotypical attitudes are rooted from somewhere deep within ones emotions and come out as nasty vitriol are concerning and not something that I personally subscribe to!

Good wholesome debate can be had without the vitriol! Backing up claims with evidence is important, but unless there is evidence then it is just his word against word his! Always happy to have a robust discussion, but happy to fling mud in the discussion, which is the norm and frankly fair game in my book! We are all different in our approach but if you are happy to fling mud, you've got to expect it back and I have no complaints with copping it back! If evidence isn't forthcoming when I request it I'll make a judgement on motives and the disingenuousness! I will always attempt to provide evidence when requested!

Let the robust debates continue I say, mud and all! We all still learn a bit from the process!

 

What next. In 50 years time Aborigines will accuse Australians of being racist and discriminatory by taking their money away under the Northern territory intervention, and we will have to fall to our knees and apologise for that.

Maybe its time Australians learnt the hard lesson, that every time they offer their hand to help; sooner-or-later, its going to get financially bitten!!


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/lawsuits-could-top-compo-bid/story-e6frf7kx-1111115267771

Its always about how much money Aborigines can gouge out of the white man.

"There were 50,000 or more white Australian children taken from their parents at the same time from unwed and single mothers, the poor, and so on. Their hands aren't being stuck out for a billion-dollar compensation."

Don't hear much about the white children "stolen generation" do we?

 

Actually we do, they received an apology too, not sure which came first, I am sure theirs did (whites).

You talk about Australians as if you are one, but it is clear you aren't. You talk with such sagacity, and it's clear your not.

I know about this that you speak of, I was adopted and 50 years later I found my birth mother, she gave up 5 children, and yes it was because of pressure and the way society was set up. My uncle was a Dr Barnardos child, told he was an orphan when he was taken away from his family in England at 12, shipped to Australia to work in the coal mines. Found out when he was 70 he had 3 brothers and sisters living in England and that his parents had lived into their old age.

So tell me, what has this got to do with what happened to the Aboriginals, why is it that because a crime was committed against us it is ok to commit crimes against them, come on tell me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

In the next 50 years, are you going to be here that long.... by your seeming hatred of all things Australian ... WHY NOT GO HOME, or are you a social and financial refuge?

 

Oh and I believe that the church was the main force behind the stolen generation. Wouldn't want children to be exposed to danger from their non-Christian families when they have it down to a fine art. http://www.royalcommission.com.au/?gclid=CNrtqrWUmroCFcFipQodAD0AKw

 

What happened to the estimated 50,000 white children stolen form their parents?

I now ask the Government to formally apologise for the “white stolen generation.”

 

There where many factors that lead to the stolen generation. In watching and reading "Rabbit Proof fence" you realize those actions were not with malice. The people who formulated and executed the various programs, absolutely believed it was the right thing to do. It is the same with the "Leaving Of Liverpool" kids. People honestly thought they were doing the best they could for those kids. As the old saying goes the road to ruin is paved with good intentions.

 

I never for one moment thought otherwise, yes they did have the best intentions, but that doesn't make it right.

 

I mention it because it is an often overlooked element of the discussion. Was it right? Of course not, but it is the sensibilities of our time that says that, not theirs. And I believe this was a major motivation of aboriginals seeking an apology. Not to prove a sense of malice, but for someone to stand up and admit - Yeah that was a seriously dumb idea. No more no less

 

Exactly. All they want is that the history be admitted to, then we can all move along. I hear all the time that they should "get over it" ... hmm watching the news, about that guy getting shot at a Sydney fruit and veg shop. The police say that the other employees are getting help, they say it may be years for them to get over the trauma, some they say may never get over it. A lot stolen generation are still alive,any Aboriginal over 45 was born an animal according to the Australian government. Many older Aboriginals as children witnessed atrocities committed on their families... yeah right, just get over it.

I'm not a PC person, I have always believed in this, it is just the right thing to do

 

And that is a very mature position, and one many who took part in the unofficial sorry day marches also adopted. It had nothing to do with white guilt and all that rubbish. I felt the same great sadness for these people as I did for the survivors of Port Arthur, the Victorian bushfires, Cyclone Tracy. Australians seem to have a natural propensity for caring about each other as a society and as individuals. It is one of the most fundlemental elements of our culture.

And at all costs we have to try and make sure we never lose that value

 

We do, and don't forget how we banded together for the tsunami victims in Indonesia. Alas, there are still some Australians hung up about things, some who would be happy to go back to a white Australia policy, some who want all the refugees sent back, which I see as funny since all non-Aboriginals are migrants or from migrant families and most came as refugees of some sort, even if just for financial reasons.

I know my family did, from Ireland, there were thousands starving and it was a very poor country back then. The only difference I can see is they are Muslim and my ancestors were Catholic

 

Like your dialogue! This is how discussion can be undertaken without vitriolic condemnation that exudes hate!

 

I had the fortune to speak with some elders formerly from warrangesda reserve near Darlington point south of griffith in New South Wales a few moons ago. They had vivid memories as children having to deal with the (Gubba-aboriginal idiom for goverment on the reserve! Term refers to white people today but pretty sure this is where it derived from! They spoke of being hidden in chimneys or actually coloured with charcoal to make their skin dark so that the Gubba didn't take them! They weren't allowed to speak language but were secretly taught by their parents but if caught speaking language were severely punished! It was quite intriguing hearing the stories! Importantly they acknowledged the positive impact the whites on the reserve had on their lives who had many times covered for them and had helped to protect their children. Obviously they were at great risk! There were bitter sweet memories from what I could pick up, and a fondness for whites working on reserve in general, especially one of the managers in particular!The gentlemen also spoke of fighting in the war and feeling a sense of belonging and acceptance only to be sent back to reserve after the war while whites were given plots of land as compensation!

They recall working on their farms, which were apparently quite successful but were closed down or land taken over by government! They basically weren't allowed to operate farms for capital! They believed this was a massive move that broke the back of aborigines in terms of functionality in the white world! They didn't speak negatively about white people, possibly due to my presence and others but were quite conciliatory in their manner! These were stories I had heard well before the making of rabbit proof fence! Unfortunately, most of these old people have likely passed and should have had their stories documented! Possibly could have but used locally! Many Aboriginal people were moved to Narrandera or I recall ran away from authorities, so possibly strong local history in these areas!

I suppose from their perspective you could understand the sentiment regarding government policy, which seemed to have a negative impact on many levels from the policies of protection, through to assimilation!

 

Well my family would never be allowed in. I can trace my family back to a convict on the first fleet and one on the second fleet. It has been fun to watch the evolution of the immigration debate in my life. Greeks used to complain about Italians, who complained about Lebanese who complained about Asians who complained about Africans. Eventually they settle down and adapt to what Australia is while adding their little slice of culture to existence.

 

Thank you. Probably my whole attitude to this can be best explained by Croc Dundee. When asked about land rights in the film he said

" Well, you see, Aborigines don't own the land.They belong to it. It's like their mother. See those rocks? Been standing there for 600 million years. Still be there when you and I are gone. So arguing over who owns them is like two fleas arguing over who owns the dog they live on."

So much of what we see causing conflict in the world really can be explained by the position of those two fleas.

 

Puts me in mind of that line from "Master and Commander" about the "lesser of the two weevils." Good quote (on edit - yours not mine).

Here's another thought. This goes back to the 1950s in the western area of SA Maralinga desert. A-bomb tests. Lots of indigenous people moved out down to Ceduna and Penong. Lots not moved out because they weren't located. That's bad enough for a start. After each test people would be sent out to assess damage. Dead roos, emus, wombats, indigenous individuals - all classified as the same, dead wildlife. GMAFB.