stone age Footprints:earliest Evidence of Humans in North America

"Lacked seeds"? You are aware that is in an era before agriculture, right? All plants were scavenged from the wilderness, nobody was planting and growing anything. They ate what plants were available, as it became ripe. Actual planting of crops came almost 20ky later.

And like most nomadics, they took their shelters with them. Once again, not all that difficult, some nomadics still live like that even today.

"Extreme Cold", you mean like the Inuit have done for tens of thousands of years? But that is also in your view of what "extreme cold" is through the modern eye. Back when most started that journey, much of North America and Europe were still covered by glaciers. The coldest winter in modern London would have been a nice spring day to them.

How hard was it for them to hunt? Well, about as hard as it is for the modern Inuit. Of course, it is also believed that many came here via boats. Staying along the shore, eating the things every culture lives off of in the environment. Shellfish, crabs, otters and seals, and of course birds and fish. And even in Alaska today, there is an abundance of edible plants. I find it hard to believe that anybody could actually starve there. But it happens all the time, most people have no idea how to forrage.

 

A long way to say you do not know. Guesses are not science.

 

The carbon 14 dating was done on plant seeds. Now do you get it?

 

*laughs*

OK, so that is how you do things. "I don't like what you say! So I am going to make fun of it and provide nothing myself to the debate".

It is not guesses. It is facts. And the simple fact is that we do know this is true. But most of the locations we would have to explore to find the hard evidence is now completely inaccessible to us.



But I am not making guesses, this is a recognized fact.

https://www.openquaternary.com/articles/10.5334/oq.66/

But feel free to read it, the evidence is compelling and strong. If the "commonly accepted belief" that humans walked to the Americas is correct, then how can the first evidence be found in both Canada and Chile at the same time? Either that model is wrong, or there were other routes. And the fact that all of the original coastline is now underwater is the most logical explanation. We know that when humans first arrived in the "San Francisco Bay" area, there was actually no bay there. Just a wide valley, with the coast over 20 miles to the west. Almost all of the coast that the first humans explored is a dozen or miles out to sea now. But we do find some of their relics on islands that have not completely submerged since then.

And it is not as if traveling by boats was not known. The first humans to travel to Australia (65kya) did not grow wings and fly there. If they could travel across open water then to reach Australia, why is it so difficult to believe those from Europe and Asia could not do the same thing 30-40 thousand years later? Most of it by hugging the coast.

Oh, and most carbon 14 dating is not on seeds. Wood, yes. Even bones, but not seeds unless nothing else is available. And that is mostly used as a confirmation, as they normally determine the age based on what strata the artifacts occupy.

 

The article used by the OP said seeds allowed the footprints to be dated.
That caught my eye. Now you want to discuss transport by boats. To Islands of all things.
Why not admit you are guessing along with your sources?

 

Do you really think that they never left the boats?

Obviously logic is lost on you.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-58638854

 

Please REFRAIN from PREACHING your religious DOGMA in the SCIENCE forum.

There is another forum where YOU can PREACH as much as you like.

This forum is about Science and NOT Stone Age SUPERSTITIONS.

Capisce?

 

More PREACHING of theist DOGMA in the SCIENCE forum!

/sigh

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAA!

That is HYSTERICAL!

The entire CONCEPT of having an IMAGINARY "ghost" deity is FUZZY and EVERYTHING following that SUPERSTITION is DRENCHED by the same FUZZINESS.

 

What video are you talking about? You only have one post before this, which contains no link:

 

What, exactly, are you trying to suggest? Let me start off by admitting that I haven't yet read the article. But you seem to be on some kick about these seeds. To me, this is a very interesting find, because I had thought it believed that agriculture was only 8 to 10 thousands years old. This find might at least double, if not triple the length of time that some planting was going on, even if it were not large scale farming. But that is only if one assumes that the seeds were for planting, as you do. It seems more likely, for the very reason you point out-- that migrating humans need a food source-- that these seeds would just be snacks, for the trip. Seeds are an excellent travel food (think: granola), as they are very high in fat and so pack a high amount of calories into a compact space, and are light in weight, relative to their caloric content. Also, spoilage is not an issue. It also explains why there would be seeds in the footprints. Hell, I can't even eat popped popcorn, without getting a bunch on the floor, much less not drop a single small seed that I was munching on, while hiking. What type of seed was it, by the way?

As for the Mammoth hunting, I have only heard about that being the food source for European humans, who, in fact followed the herds across the glacial bridge that connected Europe & North America, during the last expansion phase of our current ice age, IIRC, something like 13k to 10k years ago. I would imagine, however, that Asians might also hunt Mammoth (even though their body size is not quite as big, as Europeans). As to whether Mammoths migrated from Asia, across the Bering Strait (a land bridge, before the ice melt, when the glaciers receded), I don't know. Something makes me think Mammoths might have actually come in the opposite direction-- sorry I'm not taking the time to check any of these things, right now. The important points, though, are 2:

1st, there is plenty of precedent for humans living on a meat-based diet. The Inuits, in Alaska, do it, to this day (largely fish/whale meat). Some North America Indian tribes, on the Great Plains, at least after the arrival of horses, subsisted almost entirely on American Bison, the herds of which, their nomadic communities followed. There was also a settled tribe, along the Northeast coast, that ate oysters, as their main staple.

2nd, the dates for the ice bridge to Europe, at any rate, is much later than these footprints. So, this might add weight to the idea that Asians, crossing to North America, may have been carrying seeds, as a food source, to supplement whatever meat, insects, or plants that they might find, along the way.

 

From what I gathered these were the seeds of local grasses that were embedded both above and below the sedimentary layer of the footprints. By comparing the dates above and below they were able to establish the time range of 21,000 to 23,000 years ago.

 

That makes a lot of sense. I had been going by Robert's post, which talked about, "going out into the Wilderness carrying seeds to plant crops..." Thanks for the 4-1-1.

 

False. And deceptive and misleading.

Evidence of human existence in North and South America dates to 40,000 years ago.

And Australasia.

Asians came by boat migrating to the Pacific Northwest. Europeans came by boat to the Atlantic Northeast. Australasians came by boat to western South America.

No, they're still here and their Y-DNA and mt-DNA proves it.

Radiocarbon dating can be inaccurate leading to misinterpretations, but the other dating methods are not inaccurate.

There was no worldwide flood.

Educated people know from reading Codex Leningradis or Codex Aleppo that the Sumerian loan-word in the Hebrew text means deluge and connotes waters moving to and fro.

Uneducated timid people insist on using the King Joke Vision based on the Erasmus Text that is known to contain 837 errors and that the translators of the King Joke Vision, even today, lie and make things up, because they're not connected with any god-thing since there is no god-thing to be connected to.

The Sumerians did write the original deluge story. The Hebrews had a copy of it from Abram/Abraham when he was a priest along with his father Terah in the city of Ur, which was the city assigned to the deity Ninurta in Sumerian, but whose Akkadian name was El Shaddai.

Over the centuries the editors of the E Texts and J Texts -- you know how editors are -- edited out most of the stuff they deemed irrelevant.

While there was no flood and no evidence exists for it, there is evidence of global tsunami 12,000 years ago caused by the impact of an asteroid/comet that broke apart over the Pacific Ocean and landed close enough to the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet to destroy it.

The cast-off landed in parts of Canada and the US.

The Eastern Antarctic Ice Sheet is 1.2 Million years old, but the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet is only 8,000 years old having started to reform circa 6,000 BCE.

Since the Eastern Antarctic Ice Sheet was unaffected, it cannot be a climate event.

Note that the asteroid/comet did not have to actually hit the Western Ice Sheet. Like a grenade, it just has to land close enough so that the blast and heat energy melts it.

That caused a tsunami that raced up the Pacific and Indian Oceans, and to a lesser extent the southern Atlantic Ocean obliterating coastal civilizations.

According to the Sumerians, the tsunami raced back and forth for 3-5 days before finally subsiding.

The Sumerians also state that because the event occurred in the Age of Leo -- remember that the Sumerians all civilizations prior to the Greek knew for a fact that Earth was a sphere and orbited the Sun, which is how they knew about the precession of the equinox -- and that was roughly 12,000 years ago, a sphinx was built in the land of Magan (Egypt) to commemorate the event and although the text is broken off several lines after that, it's likely another sphinx was constructed on the west coast of India in the domain of Ianna (a female god).

There is no evidence to support a young Earth.

As a point of fact, the Sumerian 7 Tablets of Creation which the Hebrews copied and then centuries later got confused and conflated 7 tablets with 7 days, begins with the period shortly after our Solar System was created, which was 4.5 Billion years ago.

Even the Sumerian deluge story states that modern humans had existed for 432,000 years prior to the deluge.

In fact, the Hebrew story says the same thing.

There is no past, present or future tense in Classical Biblical Hebrew.

The Sumerian word shar in the Hebrew text is incorrectly translated as a year. A shar is a great circle or great year of 3,600 years, thus:

120 * 3,600 years = 432,000 years

Accordingly, when the text says "man's days were 120 years" it is saying humans had existed for 432,000 years prior to the tsunami caused by an asteroid/comet impact obliterating the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet, which is only 8,000 years old and did not start to reform until 6,000 BCE.

Since the Eastern Antarctic Ice Sheet is 1.2 Million years old, it could not possibly be a climate event that destroyed the Western Antarctic Ice Sheet.

 

Then you should ask for a refund of your tuition money because you got screwed.

Settlements in what is now northern Chile were originally carbon-dated to 30,000 years ago but advanced dating techniques now date it 32,000 - 35,000 years ago.

The artifacts have affinity with Melanesian and Micronesian cultures, not Asian cultures and not European cultures.

Giant sloths were hunted and killed by humans in the Amazonian Basin 25,000 years ago, most likely by the people who migrated from the northern Chilean settlement around the Panamanian Isthmus.

A skeleton of a Negroid female was found in a cave dating to 25,000 years ago in the area where the giant sloths were hunted.

It led to claims that Africans had migrated to South America, but DNA testing has now proven she is an Australoid or Australasian, and came from the area of Australia, Indonesia and the islands between those two large islands.

Three of the tribal groups now living in Amazonian jungles, and these are primitive Stone Age cultures, are of Australasian origin.

You can date the rock strata in which they exist. There are numerous other dating methods used by both archeologists and geologists to date rock strata and items in the rock strata.

Only to the scientifically illiterate.

You would make Herr Josef Göbbels incredibly proud.

The flow rates of rivers varies over time. It is not only a fallacy and scientific heresy to assume the flow rate today is the same as it was for the last 6 Million years, it is also very Stalinistic and Göbbelistic.

Newsflash for the Scientifically Illiterate: Erosion happens 24/7.

 

You should request a tuition refund, because your instructor -- who probably wasn't even a professor -- sucked.

There was no fall.

In the original Sumerian version that the Hebrews badly edited for political reasons, it was the serpent gods Enki and his son Ningishiddza, and also Enki's half-sister Ninhursag who binded the image of the gods onto an existing creature.

As the Hebrew text states, the gods (plural) created man in their (plural) image and their (plural) likeness.

Since Enki created humans, he loved them and wish to give them knowledge but his half-brother Enlil who was the boss god forbade Enki from doing so.

Enki did it anyway which made Enlil mad as hell.

When we find the original E Texts, the names of Enki, Ningishiddza and Ninhursag are probably in it.

The editor of the J Texts is the one who probably changed it from Enki, Ningishiddza and Ninhursag to the generic plural elohim.

When you get educated in Classical Biblical Hebrew and know what you're talking about, you'll understand the "im" suffixes is plural, as in melachim, which means messengers (plural) and not "angels."

Also, when you educate yourself by reading Code Leningradis or Codex Aleppo, you will see that the Hebrew texts quite plainly states in no uncertain terms that everyone's sins are cleansed by an ordinary unremarkable guy known as a christ.

Your knowledge of the Hebrew language is severely lacking.

Anyone can be a rabbi, but only a mashiach can be a priest. The word "mashiach" simply means "anointed one" which is what a christ is.

Cyrus the Mede Who Ruled from Persia was a mashiach.

So were all of the Hasmonean kings since in addition to being king they were also the high priest.

And no where in the Old Testament is mashiach capitalized; that is the word Mashiach appears no where, not even in Daniel. There can be more than one messiah (mashiach) at once. Many of the nevi'im (prophets -- yes, see the "im" suffix?) were mashiachim -- oh, look, there's that "im" suffix again.

During the Jewish Wars 66-70 BCE there were nearly 100 messiahs (mashiachim) running around causing mischief. Nero sent for Vespasian who was up commanding a legion group at Bradbury Rings (and yeah that's England for those who are lacking in geography skills and I'm guessing you are).

About 18 months later, Vespasian arrives with Legion III (Cyrenaica), Legion III (Gallica) and Legion IV (Scythica). The most famous of the messiahs were John Christ of Gishala, John Christ Bar Giora, Simon Christ the Idumean (poor John Christ Bar Giora -- he got captured and taken in chains to Rome).

Anyway, every year on the Day of Atonement everyone was cleansed of their sins.

The point being there was no need for anyone to die on a cross or die at all and there wasn't even a need for a god, because an ordinary man that was anointed could cleanse everyone of their sins.

Yeah, well, go give Jeffrey Dahmer a big sloppy wet kiss and see if he doesn't kill you and eat you.

 

Not even remotely relevant.

To add insult to injury, most plants were not even edible and those that were, especially the domesticated plants, were nothing like what you think they are.

Why would I care if the Holy Flatulence, which was invented by some guy for political reasons, witnesses anything?

Everything is fuzzy. The Hebrews bought Sheckem. No, wait, the Hebrews murdered the men of Sheckem to take their land. Joseph was sold into slavery to a passing trade caravan. No, wait, Joseph was thrown in a well and then found by a passing trade caravan. It was Reuben who persuaded his brothers not to murder Joseph. No, wait, it was Judah who intervened. Ephraim is the true heir of Israel. No, wait, Judah is the true heir of Israel.

Jesus cast out demon is Gasra. No, wait, it was Gerasa. No, wait, it was Garda. Jesus died on a Thursday. No, wait, it was a Friday. Joseph is descended through Solomon's son Nathan. No, wait, Joseph is descended through one of Solomon's other sons.

I can go on and on and on all day long, but I'm hoping you get the point.

It matters when it is harmful to me or others, or when it retards and side-tracks science, growth and development.

If everyone kept their highly subjective beliefs in their pants it wouldn't be a problem.

 

But nothing concrete.

There are some really sketchy claims based around some sites, which have almost universally been rejected. Then there is also the occasional "rogue find", which also is largely dismissed. But the hard concrete evidence really does not exist.

 

Of course, they are wrong. Note that they "believed" they have it right. Not that they factually had it right. Also, the dating of the surrounding rocks and so on are way off as well. There are other problems with this as well.

 

NOWHERE in that article do they "believe" their Scientific DATA on the radiocarbon RESULTS of the SEEDS of local grasses found ABOVE and BELOW the footprints.

https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abg7586

Just because YOU do NOT "believe" the Scientific DATA does NOT alter the ACTUAL results themselves.

FACTS matter!

 

Wow, you have never read any recent archaeology journals. This is 2021, not 1921. Like I said, you should get a tuition refund because apparently don't understand that skeletal remains and artifacts are concrete evidence.

 

Upon what source or by what authority do you make these claims. Or is it simply your opinion, conclusion, theory, etc. Consequently, how are you not creating an image of God, and conversely being fashioned in the process into an image worshipper yourself. And what if it is indeed Satan, carefully luring you away from the true path, telling you pretty things and easy things. Thing like, God cries out to you for his perfecting and realization, as if God were imperfect and needs you. In fact, God is perfect and you need him.

 

It does seem different than a lot of crap you've been fed. Keep watching!

 

There is nothing but god. I don’t understand him needing me or me needing him. We are him. We are god experiencing his creation to give existence meaning. We have all been veiled from the source, for if we knew (beyond just intellectually) that we were god, there would be no experience, no polarity, nothing.