Stormfront Advisory - A Moderator Perspective

I would like members to know that we might be experiancing another invasion from Stormfront. It's happened in the past and perhaps it's happening again. Stormfront targets Political Forum because of our success as a political forum.

If there is any topic that unites liberals and conservatives it is a general hatred of racism. We can expect highly racist posts from possible Stormfront members and they can often elicit an emotional response. Please make every attempt to avoid attacking or insulting the member if you're responding to such a post. Preview your post before posting it to ensure that the post doesn't violate the Forum Rules. If at all in doubt then it is best to not post at all. There is a fine edge sometimes between attacking a member and attacking a statement made. Please error on the side of caution.

I would also request that if a post appears to be flamebaiting then Report it. As moderators we cannot and do not enforce political opinion. Bigotry and racism are allowed on Political Forum. We're limited to enforcment of the Forum Rules which prohibit Flamebaiting. It is extremely hard for a racist to not flamebait and that is why members of Stormfront don't generally last long as members. Let is know so we can do something about it. As long as these members stay within the Forum Rules they can post. If they don't stay within the Forum Rules we'll deal with them.

The last thing I want to do as a moderator is to issue an infraction to a member that is enticed into a personal attack. I will but it's not something I want to do. Help me avoid that situation. Stay within the Forum Rules and Report flamebaiting. Don't get suckered into violating the Forum Rules.

Thank you,
Shiva_TD

 

Shiva I have not seen any specifically racist posts material posted here so I am surprised to hear that Stormfront is considered an "enemy" so to speak. Why would Stormfront consider this site compeitition (unless this site too was inhabited by likeminded individuals)? Perhaps it is...more than one cares to admit. Just a thought.

I would just assume that racism is considered flambait here but in so far as jews is concerned, those are not considered flamebait topics but legitmate threads even if they have nothing to do with latest news but are political opinion.

It just reveals that flamebait is entirely subjective.

 

Gee, ya think?

That's a good point. I hadn't thought of it that way; that's something else we have in common.

They are pretty obvious with their first posts.

OK, I'll try.

You're welcome.

 

What About the PLA (Chinese Military) Web Warriors & Hackers on a Government ordered Zeitgeist across teh Interwebz ?

 

Stormfront is not an enemy of Political Forum but there members are likely to initiate flamebait posts and threads as they have done in the past. As I noted it is fairly hard for bigoted racists to not create intentionally inflammatory posts to eliecit an emotional response from members.

My concern is not for Stormfront but instead for the valuable members of Politcal Forum that might respond with rage to some of the overt racism by members of Stormfront. In doing so they can easily violate the Forum Rules. If they attack the member then I have to deal with them and, as noted, I will but I won't like it.

Respectfully,
Shiva_TD
Site Moderator

 

I don't know if I have seen any Stormfront posts, or not, but statements that you interpret as "intentional" flame bait may be a legitimate political concern of somebody else.

You say the hatred of racism unites liberals and conservatives, but they are not even united on a definition right/wrong, let alone racism. If one disagrees with Obama he/she is a racist according to some. To call affirmative action a sham is enough to get some members frothing at the mouth, but I would never label the expression of such opinions as "flame baiting."

Respectfully, your post implies that there is correct political thought (popular), and incorrect political thought (unpopular). I think it is unwise to start labeling thoughts as flame baiting because some members lose control of themselves when they are exposed to ideas that challenge their world view. In my opinion, the crime of "Heresy" should have died with the Inquisition.

I know, you're the moderator and you can do whatever you want. I am not challenging your authority, or trying to cause trouble, or do anything to get myself banned. I have done anything in this post that would get me banned, I take it back. I'm just giving my two cents.

 

It is not the thoughts which are flamebait, as Shiva noted, bigotry and racism are acceptable on PF (which is why it's sometimes referred to as "Stormfront light") but the expression, the tone of a post, which convey the intention to elicit an emotional response and initiate a flamefest.

 

Bigotry and racism is allowed?

Well (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*) on a stick!


Edit - Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

I dont mind them, their arguments are facile and easily dismantled, particularly when they resort to psuedo science. They are used to posting on sites where anyone questioning their nonsensical and racist claims is immediately banned, the playing field here doesnt suit them as shown by the number who come here and only hang around for a few posts or immediately put just about everyone on ignore. I enjoy toying with them, I was banned on Stormfront and a number of other hate sites for making them look like idiots.

 

What can one do when the forum moderation takes no action to prevent the endless repetition of personal attacks against forum members? I've reported such for months, if not years, began listing the attacks in the suggestion area, and yet the personal attacks are still flowing. What can one do to notify the moderation of an endlessly repeating problem and why does the moderation allow such to persist if it does not wish for one to take action against the response to such? At one point, I responded with "off topic", only for the moderation to wrongly fuss that I honestly pointed out the real nature of personal attacks. The moderation does not respond to reports, makes a fuss when one posts "off topic" in response, and does not act on suggestions. What's next? If I respond to personal attacks with personal attacks, then moderation will take action (it has worked every time), but isn't there something else one can do to highlight a problem without getting penalty points for getting moderation attention to a real problem? Here is the latest example:

Why does the forum moderation allow for forum members to be endlessly attacked by the same person with such posts over and over and over again, simply because they are liberals who don't hate anyone . This is probably the reason why this forum is loved by white nationalists.

 

As long as rebujttals comply with the Forum Rules then they are acceptable and encouraged. What I advise against is attacking the member as that is a violation of the Forum Rules. Limit rebuttal to attacking the opinions expressed.

Thank you,
Shiva_TD
Site Moderator

 

Oh look, I have all intent of complying with (*)(*)(*)(*)ing forum rules. In real (*)(*)(*)(*)ing life I swear a hell of a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing lot, its the (*)(*)(*)(*)ed out environment I work in plus the fact Im Australian (*)(*)(*)(*)ox. We call our best frends (*)(*)(*)(*)ing dickheads and bloody (*)(*)(*)(*)wits. Allowance should be made for this cultural difference in my opinion.

 

If these folks come in and break our rules just ignore them , do not respond , report , nothing destrys a troll faster than no response!

 

The Forum Rules are explicit on what the definition of flamebaiting is. Any post that is made solely to elicit an emotional response is flamebait. Political opinions are not flamebaiting.

As noted before my concern is with members being sucked into personal attacks against a member because of flamebaiting. That is what this thread is about. Whether liberals and conservatives agree on all political topics, which obviously they don't, is really irrelevant. Most people, not all, agree that racism is wrong and the members of Stormfront unquestionably promote racist hatred.

As long as members attack the opinion expressed and not the member there will be no problems.

Shiva_TD
Site Moderator

 

I tried that too, but it didn't work. Some trolls post with political devotion, some may be on a financial payroll and others receive lots of love, praise and support from their like-minded fellows. When it boils down to political activism, only moderator action will prevent personal attacks, since the motive for the attacks is to censor political opposition. Why should forum members to be endlessly attacked by the same people for the wrong reasons, simply because they express political views that the opponent doesn't want to hear?

 

Sounds good. All that we need now is for these rules to be enforced.

 

The Forum Rules are enforced by the moderators.

What many member fail to understand is that the moderators are, by analogy, like the State Patrol that enforces speeding laws on the highways. Not all individuals that break the speed limit are cited. There are simply too many of them. With thousands of daily posts it is pragmatically impossible for the limited number of moderators to address all of the Forum Rules violations by the members.

It has been awhile since we ran a statistical analysis of moderator actions related to Reported posts but in the past the moderators averaged about 30-50 per day. The moderators also enforce the Forum Rules as we read threads and perhaps another 30-50 posts are addressed in that manner. We often have over 100 Reports in a day and literaly hundreds of Forum Rules violations out of the 2000-4000 daily posts.

The belief that the moderators can address all Forum Rules violations is an unrealistic belief. We do the best that we can but ultimately it is the responsibility of the members to comply with the Forum Rules.

Respectfully,
Shiva_TD
Site Moderator

 

Culturally speaking most adults do not swear in front of children. Political Forum is open to young people being members and, as such, profanity is prohibited. If we had a movie rating it would be G for general audiences. It wouldn't even be PG13 which would require parental control.

Sometimes members forget the audience that they are addressing. Not everyone is an adult and even with many adults profanity is offensive. It is not required for political debate and, for example, is generally prohibited in the legislative debates of governments.

BTW I also use profanity in many of my private discussions with others but I do not use it here. It in no way limits my expression of political opinion as a member of Political Forum.

Respectfully,
Shiva_TD
Site Moderator

 

Personal attacks do not address political opinions. They address a person and not an opinion. Personal attacks are always "off topic" as the topic always relates to an opinion and not a member.

Respectfully,
Shiva_TD
Site Moderator

 

Swearing is all the politicians here seem to do.

 

For 14 mods to deal with only 30-50 reports a day is a lousy record, even considering not every mod logs in every day.

There must be hundreds (?) of reports every day, judging by the amount of reported rule violations which are left standing for days, or never dealt with.

The thing is, one mistakenly gets the impression certain kind of comments are really ok, since one comes across so many which no action has been taken for.

 

That's what I meant. I meant that personal attacks are used to attack forum members because of their political opinions. Some seem to believe that personal attacks are the best means of silencing the political opinion of the political opponent when logic and facts fail in proving their argument as being wrong.

 

This is all fine and and understandable. What is less explainable is when one is attacked by the same person for months or even years on almost a daily basis. How many times and for how long may one be attacked by the same person, before a problem becomes evident? I once made a mistake with a question, apologized and got banned in a day, while some attack me every day year after year with the mods having to endlessly respond to such post reporting, giving themselves more work to do. Such seems a bit unbalanced and unlogical.

 

You may want to contact a mod via pm or ask in the suggestion box, if it's a particular poster you feel continually insulted by.

 

Of the 14 moderators perhaps 1/2 are on in any one day. That means that about 7 moderators are dealing with between 30-50 Reports and 30-50 other violations of the Forum Rules on Political Forum. The average time required to address a Forum Rule violation is probably about 30 minutes because of the resulting PM's, Suggestion Box issues, Formal Appeals, and Disputed Bans.

Taking the low number of 60 violations being addressed that's 30 hours of work for the active moderators daily or about four hours of work per moderator per day for the active moderators. Just to issue an infraction takes about 5-10 minutes as the member's record must be reviewed, prior posts reviewed, the infraction written, subsequent posts reviewed for possible edits and to provide a description of the action taken on the Report for the other staff members.

We are unpaid volunteers and expecting us to spend four hours a day is a bit unrealistic by the members of Political Forum. That's why it's so important for the members to follow the Forum Rules. When a member sees a violation they need to understand that its the member that violated the Forum Rule and not the moderators. Blaming the moderators, as many seem to do, for the Forum Rule violation is like blaming the police for a bank robbery. Don't respond to the post, Report it, and if the moderators have the time we will address it.

Respectfully,
Shiva_TD
Site Moderator