Stormfront To Black Panthers. Mod Prejudices In Subjective Decisions

DISCLAIMER; Note to Mods. This is not an attempt to circumnavigate a moderator decision. It’s a different subject than the OP that spun it off. However if it is decided its a copy of the original OP, feel free to delete it.


For those of you that detest a lot of details I will attempt to sound byte a short version of the long version, which is all in blue (below).

STORMFRONT TO BLACK PANTHERS, EXPLORING MODERATOR PERSONAL PREJUDICES IN DECISION MAKING~ short version

Moderator decisions regarding flamebaiting are almost always is influenced from a small amount to a huge amount by personal prejudices (bias) IMO. Its simply human nature. This bias can be due to his or her personal make up, i.e. life, education, or geographical location, or culture, nurturing or other environmental factors etc. So highly subjective decisions should be not by one moderator, rather it should be made by transparent process. That process would include a randomly selected five member board of moderators that vote on the infraction or issue.

The long detailed version;

STORMFRONT TO BLACK PANTHERS, EXPLORING MODERATOR PERSONAL PREJUDICES IN DECISION MAKING~ long version;


In a recent thread a proxy issue was spun off. I hope we can stay on topic and civil when discussing this (if there is discussion). This is a different issue and topic than the Mod authored one. The issue was not resolved, maybe it never will be. My stance was this; A moderator making a judgment call on what is and what is not flame bait is almost certainly, always influenced by his or her personal prejudices, even if its an unconscious influence.

There may be a rare person out there that can make completely 100% NEUTRAL judgments as to what is and what is not flame bait. I feel that this decision when it includes a infraction and one that is protested by a member, should making should be a transparent (members allowed to know who voted for or against a decision of flame bait) process, and it should be a decision made from a random drawing of say five Mods with majority decision winning.

If I owned a site I would do it that way, AND for the extra pain, and work the mods were put through they should be reimbursed with items from the site store, a t shirt or points that would be valuable in some way. That framework would be even more ethical and moral in decisions other than flame baiting, say banning a member for example. I am aware that major decisions are rendered by more than one Mod at some sites in mysterious goings on’s. However I believe transparency would be more fair and lend its self to a happier membership that may be willing to donate more; HINT HINT!

Rev A

 

Black panthers dissolved in 1982. Today is almost 2012, almost 30 years later. Got anything more current for your argument?

 

We DO vote on reversing infractions and most other decisions made. Check towards the bottom of the Rules at the top of each forum and you'll see the process for doing so. IF you are ever infracted, let a Moderator know you want to repeal it and the process will be set up for you.

JP5

 

great post , Rev A , well and fairly stated , as always ...

I believe that even the most objective Moderator / Advisor on PF would agree that at times it's hard to keep opinions / personal bias out of the PF malestrom they preside over ,,, but I have always felt and said time and again that a vigorous weeding out of the trolls would help preserve the nature of intelligent discussion that PF espouses ...

 

Please, the influence of anti type handlers is evident. Unlimber your finger and brain, it was an example! Understand ? I could have used any minority activist group. Now, prepare your palate for the taste of crow by Goolging the new black panther party and yes I accept your apology in advance.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&..._upl=2781l2781l0l3359l1l1l0l0l0l0l78l78l1l1l0

Rev A

 

Thanks my friend! How is your liver hanging these days?

Rev A

 

I thought the voting was a vague process, more like a casual brainstorming event with a show of virtual hands at the end of the session, except when voting on a serious issue such an banning. Is the decision resolved by majority vote? Additionally, what gets voted on? A warning? An deletion (which is what I am interested in, because if a reply is deleted a voice is silenced, and free speech is eliminated, even if its not guaranteed on a private site).

Lastly why not make the voting transparent? Or at least semi transparent, no mod names mentioned if moderators would like to remain anonymous (I would rather the members know what I was about). Failing all else only basic information such as the raito of the vote would be nice?

Thank you for your reply! It helps.

Rev A

 

Rev A , I'm doing fairly well ,,, trying to keep from getting a cold ,,, been restoring my headlights with a 3M kit , and sort of got chilled & have a runny nose , but other wise all is ok .

Are you ready for Deer season ?

 

Excellent thread and contributions from Rev and Hillbilly.

I am not sure what sense it would make to appeal a decision because I understand that the mods are overworked (and seriously underpaid) anyway.

I'd be interested in knowing if a mod's decson is ever overturned and if so, how often.

Probably they are likeminded and try to build a consensus, otherwise their jobs would be even more difficult.

 

I wasn't quite sure what you meant. If you mean the "new black panther party", then the title is basically saying "from far-right extreme to far-right extreme", meaning that this thread is mainly of interest for the far right extreme:

Critics of the NBPP say that the group's politics represent a dangerous departure from the original intent of black nationalism; specifically, that they are starkly anti-white, and also anti-Semitic. The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies the NBPP as a "black racist" hate group. Even the mildest critics of the organization have said that the NBPP's provocative brand of black supremacy undermines other civil rights efforts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Black_Panther_Party

 

At times I've wondered if a cumulative demerits system would work on a message board forum.

The mods would still have to do what mods do to maintain the rules as set out, removing posts, thread banning, time limited bans...with appropriate lowering of the demerit points displayed to the individual (or even others for that matter I guess).

Maybe it is the ex military in me, knowing that the demerit system works pretty effectively to promote people to govern their own behavior.

People tend to drive a little better too, come to think of it

 

I think the moderators are cops.

For the most part, decisions are supported because they are cops.

I have had crap things occur, and other mods give me advice.

The site is pretty fair. The number of mods vs the number of posters, in an insensitive environment, pretending to be sensitive due to rules of civility, kind of, you have to give them credit for enforcing. The crap you have been busted for, you can complain about. There is a venue. Reading all of these posts doesn't pay well... and there is an accountability setup in theory. I do not say so snidely. I personally believe the ones in power represent the site. I don't complain in general. I am a guest. I enjoy being a guest. Being a guest in someone's home, I typically adopt a better demeanor. I do not here as well... but I should... and the host has every right to conduct their home as they see fit. This is more accepting of different viewpoints than most... and you all know it. Quit (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing. Please.

 

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Take care of that virus Cuz! Personally I don't take flu or pneumonia shots because at least one is made from semi, half killed virus. But the biggest reason is that every time I get a flu shot pneumonia shots is that I come down with a flu like sickness!

That said, and to change the subject, I have always wondered if that 3M stuff works? Does the 3M do the job ?

’

Funny you should mention that! I was at Wal-Mart ( AKA Wally World) last night looking at the camping stuff and guns (pant) BAMBI killer indeed! I have my eye on a mossenberg 30-06. I like venison that has been correctly field dressed etc. Steak can not compare! Yeah camping, the fall of the year is the very best, the nice crisp autumn days, the sweet perfume of wood smoke wafting through the old growth forest blending with laser like shafts of early morning sun light....

I try to make it hunting with a group of friends on the rare occasion we get together. They hunt while I act as the camp cook, and if asked the camp clergy. Personally, even though I am rabidly pro firearm, I don't like to hunt, which includes trudging up and down these mountain gullies for never-ending hours. I do not like to hunt for other reasons too, the haunting of past events seem to ambush me if I let my mental block down for an instant I am often abducted by aliens called Charlie, and even though I know I am in the east Tennessee mountains, the jungle like overgrowth seems alive with spirits especially when I have a weapon slung over my shoulder, prompting those long dead ghosts out of their graves half a world away. (I feel a Halloween thread coming on!)

On the lighter side neither can I have fun sitting in a tree stand for half a day or more. I do enjoy, no I love the comradely of a group of friends hanging around a way too big camp fire after a long hunt, productive or not…

So no again the actual killing Bambi part is not something I do, but I do eat her with beans and rice with a remorseful hypocritical zeal while quaffing a few or more Dos Equis* while hearing my beloved fiends swap lies.

www.youtube.com/?v=8Bc0WjTT0Ps

Rev A

 

Good idea!

Rev A

 

Awwww' you are making me blush....really thanks Liebe, your kind words are help when I am not up. (well they help all the time, as I said ha ha)...

Overturned by the site owner, or voluntarily changed by the mod?

Yes true. If I owned a site I would find a way to reward or pay my best mods, maybe all of them. The job does confer some power and that is about all. I try to thank the mods often for their contribution to our forum.

Rev A

 

What I meant was that I was using the KKK as a far white is right example and the BPP or the NBPP as a far go black and you wont go back example. You were nitpicking IMO when you criticized me for using the BPP. That said I'll would wager you cant remember what I was referencing when I used the two diametrically opposed organizations ie the KKK and the NBP or the BBP. Don’t worry it really had little to do with the focus of my post anyway~

Rev A

 

Then, my original assumptions motivating my post was correct. The Black Panther Party wouldn't fit, since it was politically far left, while the New Black Party seems to work fine, since it seems to be far right extreme and so "black and you wont go back".

 

The voting process actually very formal. Here it is exactly:

It really isn't that hard to figure out the vote count based upon the outcome of the appeal. If it was sustained it was 3-0, or 3-1. If it was overturned it was 0-3, 1-2, or 2-2. I personally don't have a problem with revealing the vote count to the person appealing the infraction. (It is not something that the entire membership needs to be privy to.) However, I will never reveal which moderator voted which way as it will inevitablely lead to harassment and attacks against moderators. So, at the end of an appeal you know who voted, the vote count, and have the knowledge that the outcome was reached through a process that has become very normalized. I think that is fair.

Not is for the appeal of an infraction (and perhaps can at the same time be an appeal of a ban based on the infraction,) however simple warnings, or the deletion of post are not open argument, at least not formally. The sheer volume of appeals and arguments that would spawn would be inefficient for this site and would really lead to better discussion and discourse. If a post was deleted and you want to take it up with a moderator privately, sure, go ahead. I have been convinced to undelete posts before, and perhaps merely edit them. When it comes to "lesser" violation, there is greater moderator discretion.

Finally, there is a discussion on the greater idea of what constitutes "flame bait" as a whole, and the structure of the flame bait rule, going on right now, so we are trying to address some of the problems.

 

I would say that part of every Banishment is rooted in the desire for Forum /Board unity and to a small extent Mod/Admin unity.

 

I would hope that such has more to do with the forum rules than public demand. An individual with a controversial political view should not be banned simply because the majority demands such.

 

I really don't understand the purpose of this thread. I've been banned from about 10 forum because I basically believe that Semites are Semites and oppose the hatred of them. If I get points, it's either because I made a mistake while constructing a post, or because the political opposition tricked or pressured the mods to take action to silence my political criticism since they can't deal with the fact that Semites are Semites. Yet, it's all just politics. If one gets banned from here, then one can contribute somewhere else or create a new discussion forum, so there is no great need to make a big deal out of the matter. As long as one attempts to follow the rules, then usually there is not much that one can fuss about and if there is a lot to fuss about, then one can go somewhere else. I could put in an appeal, and maybe I'd win, but why bother when one can reword views to ensure that the situation will not happen again? And, if one gets banned for some fair or unfair reason, then so be it. It's not the end of the world. If anything were to change, then it should be that moderator action is anonymous. People should not know who moderated what, but rather that the moderation group took action. The last thing that I want to know is which moderator did what. Mods should also be able to discuss politics without being known or viewed as being mods, and they should be able to take moderation action without forum members knowing that they did so. Mods posting as non-mods would also make it much easier for moderators to identify problems, being undercover. If there is any transparency, then it should be a list of actions and reasons taken by the moderation group, without the identity of the moderation staff involved being known.

 

I would like to say a belated hi to my friends and say sorry I have been so distant. I will for the foreseeable future have less time to post etc. The reason is domestic issues , ie work, health, and others health, even Bogie the bassets health that has limited my computer time. None serious in themselves but as a perfect storm kind of thing well awful but unlike the movie I plan on surviving to post another day…ha ha! …so sorry for the loss of continuity etc. And I would like to thank Sir T for explaining the process. I knew the appeal process but have not used it. Luckily I haven’t had to!

Rev A

 

I agree. However being a private site I think the mods are more like sheriffs of robin hoods forest. Well not that bad or dark but I always feel as if I am on the owners land almost trespassing! Ha ha ~ ahhhh‘...Maybe its because on a private site I loose some of my natural rights? All in all this site is the best when it comes to the moderation etc of any I have posted on. The quality of the mods are top notch.

Rev A

 

Just a word to the wise...

Its not the mods, its the rule breakers who usually cause a stir.