The Carbon Tax - Debate

lol......................

 

You are full of shiiittt Gary! Is the price your stating over a 3 month period or 12 month.....In any instance again people have been heavily compensated, so in fact it won't cost an extra of anything. There has been an increase in greenhouse gases since carbon pricing was legislated and the that is because of the methane that spews out of your mouth.....Gillard should start charging you for it!!!!

 

In my area the average electricity bill is around $500 per quarter. That end and flows dependant on the season. We have already been told by the provider to expect around 30% increase by the middle of next year. That would mean around $150 increase to the bill. $600 per year. This however could increase further in following years.

This will have a domino effect and the price of food, going to the movies, resteraunt prices,etc,etc,etc. Our standard cossst on life will increase, that is why we get the compensation for our low income areas. Will this compensation cover the burden. No, it wasn't designed to. It is merely to help those on low income adapt to the rapidly increasing costs of living. Funny thing is they can't use it to compensate electricity bills.

July 1 is coming and will it make things better. Not for me. I did my bit for the environment, and my footprint is very small by the way in which I live. But the redistribution of wealth to those on lower incomes will believe that it will better because of the compo package, they won't see the steady rise in costs around them.

I hope it works for all our sake.

 

Did you even think about the producers who don't use carbon fuel, who emissions trading will make more competitive..?
If a green energy producer doesn't pay the carbon tax they can provide cheaper power...
Store owners and factories who use green power won't pay the carbon tax so can be more profitable than those who do...

There'd be no benefit to ETS if it didn't Carbon Fuel more expensive... If we'd had a global ETS or Carbon Trading back in 1992 after Kyoto we'd all be driving green super cars by now...

 

Problem with sail cars is that the mast gets stuck in the garage doorway.

 

Sail cars..? This is an Electric Car built by amateurs... The smoke is from the tyres...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9psoOXNbx2k&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

Price I quoted is for the year. Do you proclaim that as wrong? and as from the pricing regulator, something you can not seem to get your head around.

You assume they have been compensated enough in your opinion, which is beginning to crumble as you see that people will be impacted far greater than the compensation. not only including the power but also in every aspect of their lives. You along with Gillard assume people will not see, because they are hidden costs(or are you really that stupid?). Jumps in council rates to cover carbon tax on land fills, power consumption and general running will also impact.

That is your great debating? sounds to me, your desperation is beginning to show how little you understand the issue you are trying to defend.

 

Yes "a carbon tax is where you fix the price"! No, an ETS with an initial fixed price period is not a carbon tax! Again that is just BS spin. No one EVER called a fixed price for an ETS a "carbon tax" prior to Abbott's stupid smear campaign, NOT EVEN HIMSELF. He supported THREE, count them, THREE, ETS schemes with a fixed price period of one year! Did he ever once refer to these as a "carbon tax"? No! If Howard had won the election, and we'd got an ETS with a fixed price of one year, do you think he would have refered to THAT as a "carbon tax"?? Of course not! It is hypocritical political spin.

No, they are not "completely different systems", it's one system, an ETS, it just has an INITIAL FIXED PRICE PERIOD.

Ok, I'm really done with this, feel free to continue the argument with yourself.

I'll just wait until July 2nd, when this "great big tax" that is putting MORE back into the economy than it takes out, is going to destroy the mining industry and plunge the lowest income earners into poverty despite the fact they get massive income tax cuts. It will be hilarious to see the response when all of Abbott's silly rantings don't eventuate.

 

If it rises to 30%, we know who the real culprits are and it's not the carbon price. So when IPART says prices will rise by 18% of which is contributed evenly between infrastruture costs and carbon prices, your telling me that the extra 12% is totally due to the price on carbon? You can't be serious mate! Common this is just a straw mans argument and you know it. Get off your high horse slippery. This is becoming rediculours having to educate you guys, when in fact you actually know the facts but can't get beyond your perception that Gillard lied! Give up trying to be tricky!!

 

vigilante I think you have gone off half cocked......again!

Can't see where I am blaming the government for the entire spike in electricity bills. I have only stated what I know and have been told by the provider. In no way in my post have I said that they are entirely to blame for the full rise. I know it is hard for some people to interpret posts properly, but you are making fool of yourself. I will expect an apology in your next post.

 

The carbon price will only rise with inflation until it becomes set by the market. As from 1st July there will be around an 18% increase in prices, which has been compensated. Remember this 18% is not solely as a consequence of carbon pricing either, but mostly due to infrastructure needs etc. The additional price rise next year is not related to the carbon pricing, which is evidenced by the fact that it is a fixed price.

 

What is your argument, if you have been compensated. The government wouldn't have to compensate if these corporations absorbed this 1-2% cost out of their $24,000,000,000.00 profits, which equates once again to around $5.4 million. That will leave them with a profit of $23,400,000,000.00. We collectively can do something about these greedy corporations who don't care about the damage they do and don't care that they pass it back onto us. We shouldn't be arguing with our governments who are wanting to take action....don't you see it!!!

 

This is my issue with your post. I wasn't arguing anything, just merely stating that there will be a domino effect in regards to cost of living. If you actually read my post you would see this. I have no argument with any of your points above, this is what is making you seem so foolish.

I am still waiting for your apology, or are you still too busy fighting Tories ?

P.s. Did you actually read my post ?

 

hahahaha my bad!!.......profusely apologetic slippery. I was actully in a conversation with Garry. Thanks for pointing this out. Playing poker whilst posting. I think I refered to you as gary while responding to your post....lol

 

Thankyou Vigilante for your apology. I must say I know we have our differences of opinion but your post took me a little by surprise.

Go get those Tories mate ! Lol.

 

What 18%? Which is far less than Gillard and Swan is claiming from your own link

Which if you had actually done your own sums...
Apparently the power pricing regulator states different and approved the price increase attributing HALF to the carbon tax. So far your factual states are taking a dive.

I have provided, you chose not to read them and proclaimed them to be wrong with your own rhetoric. not my problem.

what unforeseen costs. I never claimed they where unforeseen, just hidden. I am sure the Gillard government realized them, but they do not care for the lesser of the community.

and you know they are accounted for HOW?

You have no idea what my qualifications are and never will, so pretty irrelevant.

Do you remember what occurred when the GST was actually imposed? ALL you so called economic experts who calculated these things got it WRONG. A piece of legislation that was very difficult to calculate at it's best.

LOL...you really think it is only about Abbott and Gillard? you do not see the number of people this legislation will destroy. How many Australians do not qualify for any subsidy and Why? You have no idea because you believe the mantra of Labor.

I have the clear examples of GST and NSW state governments of past to see how this will work. The GST raked in the Liberal federal government far more than calculated for, even after eliminating many taxes to accommodate it. The NSW government being the only state to retain a few taxes had lost 80% of business to other states due entirely the higher cost of production. Sure it did not happen overnight, but it did happen.

Great, a testimonial of something that has not even been introduced. Some substance?

which is that you want to debate? the lie Gillard admitted? or that costs will increase? I see that you are OK with the rising cost of living, as long as the government gives you what you want. but what about those that are not in your particular situation who are actually going to suffer from rising costs? Oh, that is right, you do not care because the can curl up in a hole and die, can't they?

Yes, it is wonder, But I suppose they can not spit chips when they are all looking for new jobs when they are ousted from government. As most of these added costs should fall around election time further hurting their election chances.

Abbott's mantra? Maybe, but people who can see what it means to many also see it. Already the salvation army supposedly feed 170,000 breakfast meals to kids who can not get it from home. Already charities to pay for children to go to school because their family have not got the money to provide the basics of education.

Probably the greater point is to get your head out of Gillard's arse and actually look around the country you live in. Charities Australia are growing by the year and yet you sit in your own comfy chair in font of a thousand dollar computer claiming that everything is great. instead of championing one party or person over another, maybe you could actually stand up for those that do not have a voice and are very obviously not cared about in the community and strive for better, than just a money grab from a deluded Labor party.

 

Oh, I see, the old he did so she must be right. well she is also right when she admitted she lied. it is you who can not handle the truth.

LOL...even Gillard states as such, it is only because it does not agree with your mantra that you proclaim them the same.

yes I know, until you think you can claim it without ridicule.

Yes massive income tax cuts, about $300 a year isn't it? but that will definitely make people better off won't it. Actually it will be more interesting to see what you are going to say, if you ever consider anybody else, other than yourself.

 

Hey vigilante

Get your facts right, the carbon tax will rise 2.5% ABOVE inflation every year until we switch to an ETS.

So if inflation is 3% in the first year, at the end of the first year the carbon tax will rise 5.5%, thats 2.5% ABOVE inflation, and son and so forth every year until we switch to an ETS.

Will our compensation also rise 2.5% above inflation to account for this cost?

 

Wage rises, rises in pension and other benefits are usually indexed to increases in the CPI, which includes rises in cost of electricity and other utility services, so yes...

There's an even easier solution if that's what your worry is... Use renewable energy and don't pay the carbon tax... It's a no-brainer ain't it..?

 

Now here's where it all gets a bit tricky. It makes you wonder a little bit. The carbon tax comes into effect on the 1st July, and it just so happens that the solar rebate is abolished????

What's doing here ?

A government so concerned for the environment abolishes a worthwhile green rebate.

Just makes you wonder.

 

The troll queen supporters are eagerly waiting in line to buy their tickets for a ride on her "merry-go-round"

 

The quality of posts in the aussie section is getting embarrassing. People constantly attacking each other with crappy rhetoric and not enough hard facts, accusations of "your a sheep parroting a 'mantra' because you don't agree with me" (I admit I'm also guilty of this folly) and then you have guys like this throwing their vapid one liners into the mix and thinking it passes as some sort of wit.

Get it together lads.

Carry on.