"The Earth Climate has always changed..."

CO2 is at 400 ppm, and natural is 280 ppm, max. Ice is melting. When enough melts, and we are at a suitable GHG level, temperatures will shoot, to at least 22 C global average, which will melt the rest of the perennial ice.

Sea level will go up, and creatures will be dead. In order to get to THAT, naturally, we need a meteorite strike and resulting volcanic activity, or we need some other reason, for volcanic activity.

But humans are going to make sea level go up, so heavy lunar tides pop some volcanoes. This isn't "NATURAL," Mr.

If YOU think we are at a natural temperature, during a natural climate cycle, you are majorly self-deluded, Archer.

 

I just think you causes are not the root. I see yours as straw. SO who cares we both see the problems and though we look at differing aspects it should not matter.

 

Dude, you are somewhat incoherent. You apparently don't know what a straw man argument is. When you won't admit AGW is causing climate change, you go off and make unreferenced claims, to hide how you should have admitted, how we are NOT on a natural climate cycle, which you have stopped claiming, in your unreferenced rants. Late . . .

 

Dude, you are somewhat incoherent. You apparently don't know what a straw man argument is. When you won't admit AGW is causing climate change, you go off and make unreferenced claims, to hide how you should have admitted, how we are NOT on a natural climate cycle, which you have stopped claiming, in your unreferenced rants. Late . . .

 

You see (*)(*)(*)(*) libs refuse to put forth any effort.

 

a) Have you been taking English lessons from Yoda??

b) Everyone does agree it is good to clean up the environment no matter what but that is not the end of it. In amongst all of this is the need we as a society have to replace and upgrade an electrical system that dates back to the century before last

 

Dont know what the Yoda comment was about but as to the other part I agree with you. You knew this. Can you not accept it for what it is?

 

In 2013, solar cycle 24 will peak, and so 2012 and 2013 will be record-setting high temp years.

If 2014 is another record year or close, we are in a lot of trouble, since solar cycle 24 is a MILD CYCLE, and we are on orbital variations, which should be leading us into another ice age, over 80-100K years. But this cool-down isn't evident, is it. We are NOT on a NATURAL CYCLE, at this point in time. We are on a re-green or die cycle.

Just saying!

 

So here is the fear mongering without evidence. The climate fear mongers have no evidence, only climate models.

A truth about CO2. It is part of the natural life cycle of earth. When CO2 rises, plant life increases. If you think that during past times when plant life was abundant, it was not for a lack of CO2.

Another truth about warming. During the Viking era there were settlements in Greenland because it was warmer, Shakespeare lived during a time when the Thames would freeze over. All without the current industrial era that is blamed for warming.

To understand the present you must understand the past. We are in a period of glaciation that has alternated between long ice ages and short interglacials and have been so for about 2.5 million years (the wavy line near the end. The ice age is a relatively short phenomenon for earth. For the most part, earth has always been warmer than now and if the 2.5 million year ice age ends, it will probably be so again. During those times when it was warm, plant and animal life exploded giving us some of the most fantastic animals found in fossil records.

The fact is that the only thing we really have to worry about is cooling, when life gets much harder. We are in a relatively cool period now and are blessed with an interglacial.

Now take the global warming fear mongering of the last 20 years using a 100 year record and computer models and absolutely no evidence to prove anything and you can see the folly. The short sighted fear mongers are more worried about things they cannot control and will not control instead of really understanding the past and understanding that the climate will change no matter what we do.

 

Your opening is ridiculous, dude. Give up trying to be coherent or reference your circular logic and straw man nonsense. Just cut the crap and fail, to make a point, without concluding anything, unreferenced.

1. When atmospheric CO2 rises in concentration, partly as fast as it is rising, today, a MASS EXTINCTION EVENT is the result. Of course, since you have some sort of other agenda, you can pretend we aren't on a tried and true course, or you can pretend humans didn't use fire or chainsaws, or Dr.Muller didn't claim AGW, all the way back, to the 1700s. You are simply making a case, for CO2, which can't be made.

CO2 is like NO2 or SO2. When rain falls, it lands, at pH 5.5 or so, from acidification. CO2 is a pollutant, except in closed systems, which YOU DON'T CONTROL, even if you have a RWNJ play-set, with knobs to nowhere, all over some board.

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2. Big whoop about your Vikings and the Medieval Warm Period OR the Roman Warm Period OR the Minoan Warm Period OR the Holocene Thermal Optimum, which you don't know about, since you are illiterate and unknowledgeable.

ALL of the warm periods and the optimum were warmer, than today because they were supposed to be! Because of solar intensity and orbital variations, of the Earth, those times were warm, but we are supposed to be on a gradual cooling, which we aren't, and we won't ever go there, for a couple of hundred thousand years, AFTER atmospheric CO2 stops rising in concentration, AND the CH4 and other GHGs clear out.

The current industrial era has created GHGs, which won't clear, in our lifetime. We had to stop making CFCs. There are a load of different methanes, which will warm things up, for at least a couple of cool cycles AND the warm cycles, which cycles take about 100,000 years, each.

So quit trying to lecture, when you don't know anything, and your written English and your reply content shows you can't read, or you choose not to read English writing.

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3. We aren't going to cool, guy! Get that out of your mind, already.

We are getting marginally warmer, while perennial ice melts, and RWNJs rant, like chimps all trying to elect their leader, GW, AGAIN, even though he isn't eligible.

When the Arctic ice cap melts, every summer, the Earth will heat up, a lot more. Glacial ice is failing, faster than ever. But when that northern cap melts, enough, and GHGs are concentrated, the Earth will warm, at an accelerated rate. Then Greenland and East Antarctic ice will start to melt, and sea level will rise. But this will cool the warming trend.

GHG concentrations will accelerate, off the hook, and warming will go critical, somewhere over 22 C. But the GHGs won't clear, and our survivors will go to hell, any time the Sun radiates more. Since we have enough GHGs to keep the planet hot, for a couple of Milankovitch cycles, when the hot cycle is on, whoever is left alive will really roast.

I give humans NO CHANCE, to make it, to the next hot cycle, a hundred thousand years, away.

Here are the usual cycles, which settled, 800,000 years ago:





See that RED LINE, which goes way UP, on the right? It seems some people have trouble, figuring out how to get over, to the right.

Since that red line is going way UP, instead of down, temperatures are trying to follow that line.

More CO2 and a lot of CH4 are out-gassing, from warming lands and waters. Joined by industrial GHGs, they ensure the Earth will stay HOT, for a couple of hundred thousand years, or until humans figure out, how to clear GHGs, out of the atmosphere, maybe even by re-greening deserts, polluted areas, and farmland.

Anybody who re-greens will have to do it, without aquifers, which we are exhausting, or without consistent precipitation, since we will suffer cycles of drought or deluge, on our way, to a global average temperature, somewhat over 22 C, which our survivors will need to learn to like.

Since you aren't really thinking, before you write, you include a lot of media, which you went and found, somewhere, without linking, so I am replying to you, off the top of my head.

That is more than your poor rants deserve.

 

I am glad you showed a graph that shows the increase in CO2 without an increase in temperature. Again, computer models based on GIGO will give you just that.

Do you know what the theory is for our current ice age?

 

Do you know what the REALITY IS, for what is going to happen, to any perennial ice, left on Earth? That ice is DOOMED.

See the cycles, in the graph, from Brighton, UK, which you can also get, at wattsupwiththat.com?

Those cycles are relative cycles of warming and re-glaciation, during the Pleistocene and Holocene Epochs.

We have had PERMANENT ICE CAPS, throughout these cycles, which aren't going to be permanent, any more. We may actually live, to see the time, when the northern ice cap completely melts, at least once, on its way, to complete failure, every northern summer.

I am not sure which graph to put up, for YOU, since you put up a really interesting graph, of temperature, throughout Earth's history, without noting the past mass extinctions OR how we are going to see a relatively sudden rise, in temperature, commensurate, with what happened 65 m.y.a. or 250 m.y.a. We're starting to head up, toward a global average, of at least 22 C.

You went and referred to merely one of the several Holocene warm periods, which is not evident, on your rude graph. What do you know about graphs or inference or models, which needs a reply? Not much.

What is important is the change is coming. We won't have as much permanent ice, by the end of our lives. The re-glaciation cycles are being broken. What do YOU have to say about this? You seem to be ignoring what is happening, in the news, while you rant, about parts of history, without any scholarly reference, to anything, at all.

So much nut-job! No whining. Creatures are going EXTINCT, while you play what-me-worry games.

 

According to theory and computer modeling with no evidence. For instance, James Hansen predicted three scenarios based on CO2 output. CO2 measured and Mauna Loa exceeds his estimate he used for his high temperature estimate and his lower graph, assuming that CO2 did not increase after 2000 gave a graph that is still above current temperatures. That prediction is a failure in a long line of failures using prediction hysteria to make political change.

You seem to be fully in the "doom and gloom" category of true believers yet you are also making hysterical predictions with no proven facts. You should try some skepticism sometime.

 

Dude, you don't even link, to your straw doctor, who is not even a leading guy, anymore.

Hansen is a NASA guy, who made it in media, to get with Al Gore, another guy who isn't a climatologist OR a geologist, and they both recommended carbon credits, which is like playing with the price of admission, to a gay bath-house, so patrons can use coupons, to pass the HIV.

Your "doom and gloom" is completely, totally just like gay proselytizing. What part of NO MEANS NO is so hard for you and cowboys on meth, to understand? I am not your straw person, for you to project, with your idiotic, unreferenced RWNJ claims, about what I feel or think.

As for your ridiculous rant about Dr.Hansen, you are referring to an old prediction of his, when he is just another carbon-credit clown. Why would I have to justify one of your straw pets, who you sailors on the good ship Lollipop like to blame, for bad news, on Shirley Temple's poop deck?

CO2 is passing 400 ppm, temperature is only starting to get weird, and a lot of perennial ice is melting. Maybe you don't see a tipping point, coming. Maybe you don't read, too well. But a TIPPING POINT is when GHGs increase, simultaneous to perennial ice failure, so temperature suddenly goes up, faster, while the oceans acidify.

Maybe you don't have what it takes, to understand what a MASS EXTINCTION EVENT really is.

I know straw dogs Al Gore and James Hansen don't have any media, about this, since they are just for nut-jobs, to play with. Really! I don't support your usual straw dogs. I'm not gloomy about it, and doom is relative. I wrote how lousy DOOM is happening; you didn't. I wrote we'll be dead, but you may infer the human race is probably doomed.

So much DOOM, boo-hoo. Really dude, are you like your avatar? Does imagining you are "winning" make you weepy? You don't have any "winning," guy. Not in this league!

YOU don't know what "skepticism" is. You only know what DENIAL is. There's a difference. You are absolutely and completely confused and self-deluded.

Fact ONE: Every time CO2 rose in atmospheric concentration, partly as fast, as it is rising today, one of five mass extinction events was the result. Now, are you able to READ? Do you have to ask Shirley Temple or Pollyanna, if it's OK, to read some really bad news? If it's OK, go ahead and read THIS:

We are already in the early stages, of MASS EXTINCTION EVENT 6. Got it? Are you GLOOMY? That is YOUR fault, and nobody else's fault. We're here! If you react, other than to notice reality, or to think of a solution, to practical problems, THAT SHOWS YOU AREN'T GOOD ENOUGH, for any sort of interaction, between people and public policy. Your ability is then insufficient.

I don't have to distort media, for YOU, just because you love, to fail, and then you pretend, to win, when you NEVER win. You have no idea what winning is! Were you ever a champion? I really, REALLY doubt that.

The Pliocene-Quaternary Ice Age is DOOMED. By the time we die, human population may be on the way down, already. Are you GLOOMY, over this? You sure are confused, enough, to get emotional. What's worse, you write crazy things, about someone else, when your own thinking totally fails. Just saying.

YOU are doomed, guy. YOU are doomed. Catch up, with the rest of the class. Be gloomy, if you get like that. But that is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. It isn't what happens, to me! Get real.

 

LOL I LOVE reading your doom and gloom rants Bobby.......your colorful language coupled with the extreme over-use of commas makes them read like a sing-song......

 

LOL I love this one.

 

Yeah, if I wrote incoherent sentences, without punctuation, including to slam two independent clauses together, without a conjunction and a comma, or without a semi-colon, you guys who post corrupt, RWNJ rants would believe every doomy, gloomy word I wrote.

That would be cheating, though.

I'll just keep writing how I write, if it's about how the current trends in climate are not natural.

M.E.E.6 is going to be nasty. This event is related, to runaway global warming and climate change, which starts to kill, with heat and more numerous natural disasters, but the most damage in the early stages of such an event is always to ocean life forms, which cannot handle the relatively rapid rise, of carbonic acid, in ocean water, which was pH 8.2, in the 1800s, but it is pH 8.1, now, a 30% increase, in acidity.

We have only just begun, to suffer warming. Solar intensity is relatively low, and a lot of perennial ice is melting, so average global temperatures have only risen about a degree Fahrenheit, since 1970.

But high temp records, relative to low temp records moved, from 2-1, in 2010, to 3-1, 2012. Thousands of high temp records just fell, as I write this. And warming has only begun, to accelerate, during phase I, of runaway global warming.

CO2 normally peaks, at 280 ppm, at any interglacial period, in the last 800,000 years. But humans have set fire, to anything flammable, cut trees, with chainsaws, operated factories and vehicles, and engaged, in global wars. Cumulative human effect is to cause both warming and climate change, leading to mass extinction.

But humans also introduce invasive species, to challenge native species. Humans are causing all aspects of M.E.E.6 to be worse, in phase I, of warming.

The Earth should be cooling, on the way, to a re-glaciation, from solar intensity and orbital factors, which should take 80-100K years, so CO2 is 180 ppm, whereupon CO2 rises, dramatically, with temperature, over 5-8K years, to a new thermal optimum. But humans drove CO2 way past 280 ppm, to 400 ppm, while more CO2 and a lot of CH4 out-gas, from warming lands and waters. We are in phase I, of runaway global warming.

Phase I: Atmospheric CO2 concentration moves past the Pleistocene-Holocene maximum, of 280 ppm, to 400 ppm, 2012-2016. Warming starts to accelerate, but a lot of glacial and cap ice melts, cooling the average global temperature. Even so, more heat and water are in the climate system, and these distribute unevenly, to make climate change noticeable. Sea level rise starts to accelerate, from 1.7 mm average, during the 20th Century, to 3.1 mm per year, 2012. The ocean is acidifying, from acid rain, melted ice, and river flows. Die-offs from relative acidification are underway, in the oceans, which are threatening corals, eggs, little fish, oysters, and plankton, and thereby the entire ocean food web. El Nino events start to out-number La Nina events, while high temp records are noticeably more, than low temp records. 100 cubic km of West Antarctic sea ice and a 97% of all glaciers are failing, with the northern ice cap. But warming isn't bad, yet, even though heat just killed a lot of fresh-water fish, in mid-America, and tornado alley is now from California, to Russia.

Phase II: The northern cap ice is failing, with perennial ice noticeably damaged. More water is in the climate system, so more sea ice may reform, during a given season, with more East Antarctic ice, until the East Antarctica shelf starts flowing, into warming currents, which will start to happen, at some point, maybe even in Phase I, as shelf ice and West Antarctic ice is melting. But a major tipping point is approaching, toward the beginning, of Phase II. As the permafrost melts, more CO2 and CH4 out-gas, which leads to a warmup, which causes the northern ice cap to melt, completely, by 2030-2050. When that ice cap melts, the northern summer absorbs more solar energy, which leads to runaway global warming. Greenland and East Antarctic sheet ice starts to melt. This slows warming, some, but by this time, most desirable sea life is doomed, by failure of zooplankton, oysters, corals reefs, and eggs, from advanced acidification. Warming accelerates, and natural disasters increase, as sea level rises and storms become more severe and numerous.

Phase III: We are all long-dead. Sea levels are on the order of 70 m higher, than they are, today. Our descendants will have tried to re-green deserts and polluted areas, or all humans may have died out. The shelf ice and glaciers have completely failed. Temperatures average at least 22 C, all over the world, top to bottom. Polar ice may re-form, seasonally, only. CO2 is likely well over 1000 ppm, and no re-glaciation can possibly happen, for several hundred thousand years, depending on how fast humans died out, if we fail, to re-green deserts and polluted areas, given too many of us are much too stupid, to minimize carbon footprint, of corruption, or to grow HEMP, SWITCHGRASS, and ALGAE, for CO2-neutral biomass industry. With human-assisted re-greening, the Earth may only need a couple of hundred thousand years, to clear the excess CO2, from the atmosphere. But that doesn't include all industrial GHGs, which have no natural exchange processes.

Coral studies show definitively, how a relatively rapid rise, in atmospheric CO2 concentration ALWAYS leads, to a mass extinction or near mass extinction, since the CO2 exchanges get boggled, the oceans acidify, and sea life nearly all dies out.

Jellyfish can become the top predator. HS2 respirators have evolved, in these warm ocean circumstances. Anoxic events replace acid-related die-offs. Big dead zones are already appearing, in the oceans, TODAY.

Atmospheric CO2 is increasing about 10 x the rate, of the Paleo-Eocene Thermal Maximum, 56 m.y.a. CH4 is out-gassing, faster than before the Permian-Triassic Extinction Event, 250 m.y.a., the leading killer, of all geologic time, which like the K-T extinction, 65 m.y.a. featured a strike, by a large meteorite and continuous volcanic eruptions, lasting more than a million years, which just happened to be on the other side of the Earth, from the impact zone.

How do you think we could get all life forms nice and dead, without a meteorite? We can affect those, since we're watching them, and our NASA or Navy can do something, to a near-Earth object, to deflect this. Try this: FUKUSHIMA. It hasn't even begun, to kill people, in quantity, but if those Japanese heroes blow even one play, the fresh fuel rods in ponds, on a damaged roof or that little seal, which is underwater and not designed to last forever may cause trouble, with any of a myriad of practical problems, I don't even know about yet.

But FUKUSHIMA DIARIES could tell the story, of Mass Extinction Event 6. That Dai-ichi plant hasn't really started killing people and animals, but it sure isn't finished, either.

So when you see guys pretending carbon trading is going to help, NO, THIS DOES NOT HELP. In fact, carbon trading is like increasing the price of admission, to a gay bath-house, which is infested, with HIV, and a lot of at-risk behavior is known to happen.

Letting the same old crowd do their thing, with coupon deals doesn't solve the problems, accrued.

And then there are the FRACKERS, who want to chase homeowners off their land, so they can flip the property, without any regulations. These guys are like meth dealers, who want into a bath-house, with free needles, like their brand of clean crank will slow down the spread of deadly AIDS! No, crank deals won't slow the HIV or AIDS.

The bath-houses are CLOSED. Get a clue. Carbon games are more garbage in, garbage out. The only survivable course is radical re-greening, and we need legal HEMP, right away, with ALGAE and SWITCHGRASS, at least, for CO2-neutral biomass.

We get the Zionists and their war-pigs and standing armies away from US funds, and we quit letting courts of fraud and oppression generate a carbon footprint, while we also quit letting pot clubs pretend the only use of the 25,000 market-leading products, made from HEMP, which we get to manifest is their medicine, MAAAAHN. The greedy need to back up.

When sea level rises, enough, heavy lunar tides will massage plates, faults, and magma chambers, to generate fresh seismic and volcanic events. Got Yogi Bear? Psst! There's one of the world's two biggest volcanoes over there, and it is DUE.

As sea level rises, and storms get weird, that Yellowstone volcano will blow. The US breadbasket will get taken out, by this, if the drought and deluge cycle of climate change hasn't taken it out, already. Just saying!

React to THIS, or we are doomed as doomed can be. Let's hear about it.

 

Convince all your friends and neighbors to stop using natural gas and do something about it then. Hydraulic fracturing is a technology probably older than you are, people have suddenly decided to use it in another stream of scare mongering because they can't convince their friends and neighbors to do what I just suggest you try. Why? Because given the choice, people will choose lifestyle and economic health and resource development any day of the week over cowering in a mud hut waiting to be told what to think by the human haters.

If CO2 emissions are all that important, and you really believe it matters, stop contributing to the problem, lets get some politicians to pass a law outlawing breathing!

 

You certainly are Chicken Little. No facts so far but a lot of fear mongering.

 

Let's NOT get some politicians to do what YOU want.

Nobody will do what YOU want. Your rant indicates you need to learn to think. You didn't do that.