The Traitor-in-Chief is NOT beating Biden in the Polls!

How?!

 

A trend based upon invalid polling results is not worth anything.

From what I can gather ALL of the pollsters are still making the same mistake to some degree or another, ABC is just the most egregious mistake to date.

Let's go back to the late 1980's and ask ourselves if a celebrity was GUILTY of rape and fraud and was INDICTED on charges of stealing classified documents and trying to overthrow the duly elected government would they STILL be the GOP frontrunner?

Have Americans ABANDONED all sense of Right and Wrong now?

Does a MAJORITY of the electorate actually WANT a known traitor running our nation?

The polling is saying that is what is happening RIGHT NOW in America.

The option here is to BELIEVE them or look at REALITY instead.

The news media is MISSING the voices of GenZ because they no longer rely upon it for their news. Instead GenZ have trusted internet sources instead that can be instantly cross checked and verified.

They don't answer their cell phones when pollster's call them because they don't trust the polls either.

Once upon a time you and I could rely upon the average of the pollsters being close to how people are going to vote given the margin of error.

Nowadays I no longer have that trust in their abilities. They need to be treated with skepticism when they are using outdated means to provide their results.

Let me make one final observation here about that "trend", if it is correct then America is circling the bowl. I cannot accept that We the People are that ignorant and gullible.

 

I think you’re not taking into account today’s modern political era of polarization, the great divide, the super, mega, ultra-high partisanship. You have approximately 40% of America caught on one side of the divide, another 40% on the other side with the remaining 20% in the middle. Somewhere in-between the two polarized, super partisan sides. The two sides view each other as this nation’s worst or number one enemy. More of an enemy than Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, terrorist, etc.


Due to being in this modern political era, you’re going to get 40% voting for Trump, 40% voting for Biden no matter how good or bad the candidates are. It’s a case of my worst scumbag is always better than your best candidate. Although this time around, both major party candidates are looked on as the bottom of the barrel dregs by those 20% caught in the middle. The election deciders. They don’t want to choose between them, they want a fresh, younger face, someone else. Which isn’t going to happen. Basically, they don’t care who wins as they don’t want neither one. They’re also tired of all the negativity politics brings to the fore, most don’t want to hear it, most will ignore it as normal political very partisan political hyperbolic rhetoric which to them has no place in politics. They’ve stopped paying attention to politics. To them politics have become a den of filth full of corrupt, lying, money grabbing politicians who’ll do and say anything for a vote, to get elected or reelected. A used car salesman is held in higher esteem and deemed more honest than any lying politician by most of these in-betweeners.


These in-betweeners aren’t hard core ideologues as both major parties seem to be filled with today. They didn’t cause this modern political era were in. The two major parties did. Where both major parties were filled with pragmatist 30 years ago willing to play that old political game of give and take, compromise, today they filled with ideologues and litmus tests. Where compromise has become a four-letter word. First Trump and Clinton, then Trump and Biden are the results of our modern political era of polarization, the great divide, the super, mega, ultra-high partisanship. Not the cause. But one would have to write a book to get into that.

 

So you're on the propaganda diet. Biden will have your vote, and of course, the thug vote is a sure thing, along with all those who think somebody else will pay their bills, wipe their behinds and clean up after them.
Such people are incapable of grasping anything that isn't immediately under their nose. And the air is not fresh there... never will be.

 

Like you, I see the same polarization and broad groupings but I approach this from a different direction.

The extreme right have become the cult of the Traitor-in-Chief and have USURPED the GOP to the point where it has paralyzed the government of We the People. Kevin McCastrated is Speaker In Name Only (SINO) because he is INCAPABLE of cobbling together a working majority.

Compare that to the extreme left and it is a very different picture. AOC is the GOP's poster child for that extremism and yet she is currently being groomed by one of the most SUCCESSFUL Speakers in the history of the House to become an EFFECTIVE leader for her generation. Like it or not but the Dems HAVE managed to implement some policies that are GOOD for We the People WITHOUT the petty drama queen antics that we see on the right.

Perhaps the most SIGNIFICANT difference of all is the handling of members who have LEGAL issues. When the EVIDENCE is iffy BOTH parties will give their elected members the benefit of the doubt. The Gaetz sex trafficking was dubious but that is NOT the case when it comes to Santis. The original charges against Menendez were not beyond reasonable doubt but NOW they are hence the lack of calls to resign before as opposed to the CURRENT chorus of demands for him to resign. But even worse than that is the SLAVISH embrace of the Traitor-in-Chief even AFTER he ADMITS his crimes openly in interviews and speeches.

Once upon a time the GOP pretended to be the party of Law and Order, now it is a LEADERLESS mob of DELUDED conspiracy fools tearing our nation apart which cannot be said about the Dems.

Which brings us back to the 60% of Americans who do NOT want the government shut down. You are correct that the 40% of Dems will vote for Biden no matter what.

The 20% in the middle have to make a CHOICE between a RESUMPTION of a semblance of NORMALITY or be party to ENABLING the Agents of CHAOS.

Most of us in the middle are level headed and see the pros and cons of both sides. We have been known to split our votes and even occasionally hold our noses for the lesser of two evils. If we do NOT vote or vote for a 3rd party we are GUILTY of ENABLING whomever wins because those are the CONSEQUENCES of "opting out" of the 2 party system.

Those in the middle who DID vote for the Traitor-in-Chief in 2016 and 2020 did so WITHOUT the KNOWLEDGE that he was prepared to DESTROY our entire government just to remain in power. Their PRIOR votes can be "excused" given that they had no way of knowing what he was capable of doing. That EXCUSE is now NULL and VOID because we have the EVIDENCE and the INDICTMENTS.

The DECIDING choice for the 2024 election is no longer a matter of the lesser of two evils. The LUXURY of abstaining or voting 3rd party is SELFISH and a tacit ADMISSION that our RIGHT to vote is MEANINGLESS when we THROW it away in the face of an EXISTENTIAL THREAT to We the People.

I appreciate that each election can sometimes feel like it is the most important vote we will ever cast but each vote is important. This is a turning point in our history, the FIRST occupant of the Oval Office to actually COMMIT what the Founding Fathers called High Crimes. The GOP abjectly FAILED in the DUTY to the Constitution TWICE which resulted in our current dire situation.

So my question for my fellow Independents who intend to vote in 2024 is this one.

Why are YOU going to REWARD the GOP for ENABLING the Traitor-in-Chief to almost DESTROY our nation?

Voting 3rd party or abstaining is the same thing as REWARDING the GOP.

 

You left out starting wars, with the exception of GWB pretty well all wars have been started by democrats,
and Biden wants a whole bunch of wars right now.

 

Nonsense.

 

Sounds like it’s you that is on the propaganda diet. Projection much?

 

We knew exactly what we were getting not that DCcentric crap that has been destroying the country for fifty years. Government shut down? Please. Nothing has come out of DC in years that makes anyone's life better, and much that makes it worse. Much of what official DC does could go away tomorrow and the majority of people would never notice.

 

trump was engaged in military operations but ignoring that — can you identify what war Clinton, Obama and Biden started?

I know we saw massive troop reductions under Obama and Biden actually ended a war but wasn’t aware they all started one. Go ahead and source your work

Or are you just saying the only war started in the last 3 decades was started by a Republican but are trying to “massage” the message to support your team?

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-...ts-led-the-nation-into-new-wars-idUSKBN2A22SN

 

Yet the movers and shakers in most antiabortion groups are female. By the way women in the burbs are the families' primary grocery shoppers. Do you think they will be more concerned about the 20 to 30 percent increase in the price of groceries or some one else's abortion especially since even the heart beat bills allow a month and a half to make up your mind whether to have your kid or not.

 

It doesn’t matter what the “movers and shakers are” it matters what general opinion is. And among women:



And it’s even more skewed with the youth voters that are becoming more and more politically engaged with each election cycle.



And seeing that the US has a precipitously dropping life expectancy rate the bottom group there likely doesn’t have many more elections in them.

As to inflation, it’s a global issue and America is doing slightly better than most other nations. Maybe we should give the wealthy another tax cut which is about the only thing cons can come up with as a solution.

 

It's not possible to communicate with people who are unreasonable and talk nonsense.
The writings on the wall as they say. Anyone willing to look can see what's happening, and who is doing it.

The deniers- call that "projection". They have to, because the facts against them are overwhelmingly- and can't be explained rationally.

The "president" you support can't walk off a platform without insulting someone, babbling nonsense, getting lost or falling down.

The national debt is increasing at the rate of $800 million dollars an hour- that's about $2.60 an hour for every man woman and child in America.

Biden is trying to reduce the image of southern border invasion--- by directly bringing in illegals from other countries by the planeload instead, according to this article in the New York Post:
https://nypost.com/2023/09/21/biden-secretly-has-let-221456-migrants-fly-into-the-us-in-past-year/

IF you actually recognized the facts, you would see America is under attack- from within.
If you can't or won't read and look, you have no actual opinion, let alone credibility.

No fresh air over there, and you desperately need some.

 

I love it when people are told something about themselves and try to use it on others, lol

 

I don’t want Trump elected anymore than you do. But like so many other swing voters, I don’t want Biden either. Many of those 20% swing voter, election decider will opt to vote for the candidate they least want to lose. Which boils down to two bum choices as they view this upcoming election. Many will say to hell with it and not vote at all since they don’t want neither one, the reasons vary among each individual. Others who do vote will opt for third party candidates to show their disdain for both major party candidates. I did this in 2016 as I was so disgusted with both Hillary Clinton and Trump. I vowed I wouldn’t help neither one by casting a lesser of two evils vote. I voted my conscious and convictions. I wanted my vote officially registered as being against both major party candidates. Me and 8 million other voters took this route in 2016. I imagine quite a lot will take that same route in 2024 as we basically have an identical election between two disliked and unwanted to be the next president candidates.


What I don’t understand, I’m not a partisan nor belong to any political party. I don’t understand if this election is so important to Democrats who believe as you do. Why run Biden which the Democrats know that 60% of most Americans along with 65% or more swing voters, the non-affiliated, less to non-partisans don’t want him reelected? They can’t see how most of America feels and thinks about Biden, especially among this 20% of election deciders or are they just ignoring it, them? Do they think it’s Trump Biden is going up against which means an automatic win regardless of what most Americans think about their candidate? Like 2016 with Hillary Clinton. Or is it they plain don’t care? Does this put the lie to all their rhetoric about saving democracy? You’d think if they were serious, they come up with a better candidate, more liked and wanted.


I thought the Democrats learned from their 2016 mistake in 2020 when they choose Biden, everyone’s second choice, but a safe choice to defeat Trump. Now for 2024, it seems the Democrats are back in the 2016 mode of not caring what the election deciders think, want, feel or in this case, don’t want.


As for the GOP, I’d given up on them a long time ago. When they went with Trump. They’re hopeless. Beyond giving advice to. Beyond talking to. I’d expect better from the democrats, but they too seem to have gone into the deaf mode of not listening to most Americans, especially the election deciders. Most of these 20%, swing voters believe the slogan of saving democracy is just another partisan political slogan in the quest for their vote. They don’t believe it. I do expect a whole lot of this latter 20% will stay home and not vote or vote third party ALA 2016. Is that their fault or is it the fault of the democratic party for not listening to them? The Democrats don’t have to, they have every right to choose whoever they want as do the Republicans. But that makes one heck of a rematch very few want which mean very low enthusiasm and perhaps no incentive to get to the polls and vote


Harsh, perhaps. But I think it’s is based in today’s political reality. I respect and like old snake eyes, James Carville. He’s someone the democrats ought to be listening to, not me, but to old snake eyes.

 

Taxes are fine right now what's killing us is regulatory overburden and crime 112 billion in retail theft last year and the left calls it income redistribution and wonders why all the grocery stores are closing.

 

I know you don’t believe in polls. But I just received this one. Take a look at independents in the trial heat between Trump and Biden. Question 16. It’s not the horserace numbers that interest me, it’s the percentage who say they’ll vote other, i.e. third party or will not vote. 11% of independents state they’ll vote third party in the rematch, 12% did so in 2016 vs. 5% in 2020. 23% are stating they won’t vote if there is a rematch. That’s a whopping 34% of independents, will not vote, vote other combined if the rematch occurs. Combined that figure was but 26% in 2016 vs. 12% in 2020. Hence my conclusion that 2024 will be another low voter turnout election with a high third-party vote. Perhaps higher than 2016 if no labels runs a candidate with name recognition, experience, with some decent funding.


https://d3nkl3psvxxpe9.cloudfront.net/documents/econTabReport_wyX9VrC.pdf

 

Support for abortion starts to evaporate at about month four and by month seven drops to around 20%.
Life expectancy isn't dropping because old people are dying younger, it is dropping because suicide and OD's among the under forty set have increased drastically.

 

You and I are both well aware that there are public polls and private polls. What you and I see are only the public polls, the DNC gets to see those private polls which means that they might know something that we don't.

Those public polls are seriously flawed as established in the OP which makes me wonder what would be so different in the private polls to the public ones? When it comes to sticking with Biden they will have gamed out a couple of scenarios and run private polls against them. They are sticking with him for a reason, we just don't know why. My own speculation is that those private polls are 70% cell calls and 30% landlines and the results are NOT what the media is reporting.

Looking back at that farce it was "her turn" that put HRC on the ticket as opposed to Bernie who was the choice of We the People. Bernie would have exposed the Traitor-in-Chief for being a two-bit shyster and would have won IMO.

Is it Biden's turn AGAIN? That makes no sense when the Dems have a WEALTH of viable candidates for 2024, none of whom are stepping up to the plate so what gives? Again my speculation is that the DNC knows something we don't and perhaps it is about the megadonors. Pelosi is staying low key but she is the key to those people. She is shrewd enough to place doubts in their minds about empowering the leaderless GOP in 2024. If she has done what I suspect she has either split the pot or flipped which party gets the lion's share of the donation. We already know some megadonors are withholding funds to GOP candidates.

With that in mind keeping the ship of state steady is good for corporations and their profits, old Joe is a KNOWN quantity, hard to find anyone with more experience to do the job, still sharp with off the cuff responses to the media, rides a bicycle and does NOT take himself too seriously. If he wants to keep the job then let him, there is no upper age limit in the Constitution.

This is where you and I differ. Only if EVERYTHING was identical to 2016 I would agree with you on voter enthusiasm. But there are a great many DIFFERENCES between now and then. Abortion was NOT on the ballot in 2016, neither was the GenZ outrage over the mass shootings which together cover way more than 50% of the electorate. Dems have OVERPERFORMED on these issues in other elections because of INCREASED voter motivation.

FTR I prefer the term voter motivation to the older voter enthusiasm term. Once upon a time generating voter enthusiasm was part and parcel of the campaign, nowadays it doesn't apply because who could work up enthusiasm for Sleepy Joe, right? 2018 and 2022 the voters were MOTIVATED by issues like abortion rather than any enthusiasm for Congressional candidates.

Strikes like a snake too!

I respect him and his recent observations are good. As I recall he mentioned that the Dems need a reality check on running Biden and he was pretty convincing too.

But what if that is all part of what the DNC knows and are using Carville to dupe the GOP into believing the DNC is ignoring the polls at their own peril?

I know, more speculation on my part, Carville might NOT be in the know and just doing it because he is who he is, but no, he wouldn't be fooled. This is the same guy that managed to get Slick Willy reelected after an impeachment by the GOP.

The DNC has seen the SWING towards blue over the last 3 federal elections and 30 Special elections. So has the GOP but their "candidate quality" is still abysmal. The Dems are awash in quality candidates across the board. The social media messaging by the Dems is sharp and witty as opposed to negative and belittling by the GOP.

So here is what I see happening BEHIND the scenes.

The GOP has an internal conflict for control of the party with the extremists being utterly ruthless in their power grabs. It is hurting the party to the extent that it is shedding support from grassroots to megadonors at an unacceptable rate. New GenZ membership doesn't even agree with the party extremists on key issues. A party in disarray is going through the motions with a Traitor-in-Chief loyalest at the helm. The destination is a foregone conclusion.

Do you recall what happened as local Dem meetings across the nation in Jan/Feb of 2017? It was during the "dead season" after the shocking loss to the Traitor-in-Chief. Those meetings were just the old Dem party faithful catching up with each other after the holidays but then volunteers arrived asking what can they do to ensure that 2016 NEVER happens again? And not just a handful, it was nationwide, local Dem organizations were swamped there was a huge demand on basic courses and that was the conception of the reborn Dem party.

Three federal elections and 28 special elections later you CANNOT argue with those results. Record setting TURNOUTS for many of those elections too. The squabble over Establishment vs Progressives has all but vanished, the party has EMBRACED a lot of the progressive agenda and actually enacted some of it into legislation. The Dems have young people and young ideas, they are NOT the party of megadonors because they have ActBlue as a counterbalance.

An alternate way of looking at this is as a Counter Revolution to the Hard Right Turn that started under Bush jr and ENABLED the QAnon takeover of the minds of the extreme right. Once it became clear just how bad they were normal people organized themselves and figured out that there was a better way forward.

So what you and I are seeing is the tip of an iceberg, one that could well sink the Trumptanic and take the GOP down with it in 2024.

This is now on the record so yes, if I am wrong this can be used against me in the future.

 

What if they aren't

 

And this would be relevant if republicans were not pushing for bans at 6 weeks or at the moment of conception — even for rape victims and even for children. But they are so it isn’t.

What demographic was hit hardest by COVID? Do you think heavy drug uses (such as those overdosing) are going to vote?

 

The Traitor in Chief is Joe.

 

LOL, this far out, way too early to tell if anyone is right or wrong. Way too far out to hold anyone accountable, you or me. Way too much time left and perhaps an unforeseen event or two unfolding before our very eyes that turns all of this upside down. One can only go by the numbers at hand. And yes, both major parties use trickery and deception to the max. I chalk up Hillary’s lose to laziness and the ineptness of her campaign. Hillary let Trump both outwork her and out campaign her. Trump made 116 campaign visits, stops, rallies between 1 Sep to election day to Clinton’s 71. Her 71 looks bigger than it was as it included fund raisers in deep blue California and New York. Clinton wanted to beat Obama’s electoral vote count, she spent way too much time, energy and money in states she had no chance to win. Clinton counted on her money advantage, Clinton raised and spent 1.191 billion to Trump’s 646.8 Million. Clinton became the only presidential candidate to lose an election who spent the most money since 1964. Every other presidential election, the candidate with the most money won. What does that tell you about our electoral system? Money is everything and please mega donors is top priority.


https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/...campaign-fundraising/?leadSource=uverify wall


As for the numbers, I’m comparing the public numbers for 2016 and 2020 to the public numbers today. Apples to Apples, all public. All were pretty accurate, falling within the MOE of the polls. As for 2024, I realize there’s an ocean of water to yet flow under the bridge. What looks like doom and gloom today, may be bright sunshine tomorrow or next month. But all the polls have been fairly steady with normal ups and downs since January. That is with the exception of the ABC poll. I think it will stay close, within a point or two of each other until the trials start which in my opinion will be the deciding factor. Time will tell.

 

Polls that we know are not corrupt and favor the left are ACTUAL local elections. And those have been consistently favoring Democrats. Winning in elections that were expected to be close or in which Republicans always led by a manageable margin, winning BIG in elections where Democrats used to win with some effort, and tightening a lot in elections in which Republicans traditionally enjoyed a comfortable margin.

I think those are a better indicator than polls. The shift ranges from 3 to 20 points and the average shift is 11+ in favor of Democrats.

https://abcnews.go.com/538/democrats-winning-big-special-elections/story?id=103315703

I LIKE where we stand...

 

Of course you do. The economy is going to hell, thieves are running wild, the border is being overrun, Joe's pocketing the dough, character is out of style and America is the laughingstock of the world.
Not sure where your cut comes out of that, but there has to be a reason why you are in favor of it. What's in it for you?