We Should Build Stuff Like These

Don't know whether they do or not since I am from AUSTRALIA - you know the big Island bordering the Pacific?? Not that country you import Governors from.

And NO what we use is NO. Nitric Oxide it is a potent pulmonary vasodilator. We use it in patients with very severe pneumonia's as well and it is a "last ditch" ventilation strategy in ARDS

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/109/25/3106.full

But we have to be very careful with it and only run it through the ventilator that has salvaging of expired gases.

Like anything - little can be good, more than you need can be toxic

 

OK. Nitric oxide. NO. The Soviets used it as rocket oxidizer. It killed a couple of boomer crews.

But it was nearly pure in a confined space.

 

We deal in PPM to get an effect and we also monitor for nitrogen dioxide as well

http://www.ards.org/learnaboutards/treatment/nitricoxide.html

 

I know of no rivers in the US with sufficient flow where the impact of a dam would not create an environmental disaster that are not already dammed. However, I am willing to listen to proposals.

A better idea is to dismantle a few hundred nukes and use the fuel to build a couple of dozen 1000 megawatt PW reactor plants. Of course, we'd have to consider the idea that we'd only be able to kill everyone on earth 12 times instead 15.

There are ideas out there. It doesn't require "conservative" ideas or "liberal" ideas, just the courage to pursue a good idea.

 

How about a "Wind Dam"?

 

How is an environmental "disaster" different from an "effect"? A large number of US dams have been and are being removed for "environmental" reasons I frankly consider silly, like restoration of fish habitat:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dam_removal

 

it looks like it would use more energy to make and install than it would ever generate.

 

There it is again, the idea that only the govt can do big things.

I guess it depends on what you call a "big project". How about air conditioning, or refrigerators? Not fancy, but changed the world. And with no help from the govt. Maybe cars? Ford was in business long before the govt had its first roads program (and there were roads before the govt).

Maybe SpaceX and all the private sector space exploration and transport companies count as a "big program"? They couldn't get involved until recently because of the govt monopoly, but now that they are there has been more progress in the past 10 years developing new space vehicles than in the past 40 years of govt dictated space programs.

Or satellite based mapping. That was off limits in the US until foreign companies started selling maps commercially, using commercial satellites, put in orbit by commercial launchers. Now the private sector runs the mapping industry.

Maybe GPS? It was essentially denied to non-military until a really smart guy at Ashtech figured out how to get high accuracy position in commercial receivers even with SA/AS turned on. That forced the US to turn off SA, high accuracy GPS was then available to everyone, and we have GPS in cell phones, cars, computers, watches, etc and all those fancy apps to give you directions. All that fancy GPS based stuff that a soldier wears on his belt or is in tanks etc., and all the inteneting of the systems, is due to the private sector. If it was up to the govt, the only thing with GPS would be bombs and military aircraft.

(I know, you will claim GPS was developed and built by the govt. It was paid for by the govt but developed by many people including the private sector. Why did the govt pay for it? Because they were targeted as the best customer. GPS would have come about even if the govt had not paid for it)

Govt gets in the way. Once its out of the way, the real innovation takes place.

 

And ask yourself why it takes so much money for these "big projects". Its because the govt is involved, the govt is wasteful, there are regulations and unending turf battles, and meetings, and nobody will take the responsibility for a new idea. Thats why SpaceX did for peanuts what the govt (NASA) claimed was going to cost 10 times more and take decades.

 

Bull! Listen to yourself - half of these the original research was done by the government - all of the hard yards work had been laid down. Did you realise that if it weren't for NASA we would not have cardiac monitors? "Space" Blankets and a whole host of other inventions? It is like computers - before you developed the Ipad you first had to develop systems like "eniac" and Turing and all of those other early versions.

 

Bull! Listen to yourself - half of these the original research was done by the government - all of the hard yards work had been laid down. Did you realise that if it weren't for NASA we would not have cardiac monitors? "Space" Blankets and a whole host of other inventions? It is like computers - before you developed the Ipad you first had to develop systems like "eniac" and Turing and all of those other early versions.

 

America quit making monstrous dams after the Teton Dam broke. If anything goes wrong you have a man made disaster of epic proportions. The same reasoning behind nuclear power plants, I'd imagine.

 

You only assume cardiac monitors are due to NASA and that there was only one path to their invention and that path runs through the govt. There would be cardiac monitors with or without NASA.

Space blankets? Dont strain too hard trying to find truly useful examples of the benefits of the trillions the govt wastes.

You are out of your element and repeating propaganda.

Air conditioning, refrigeration (at home and in vehicles), cars - no govt involvement, yet they changed the world. Not glamorous, but earth shaking.

SpaceX - no govt involvement. Their own design, done their own way. And you cant say the govt did it first. Its not based on the Shuttle or old Saturn.

Mapping - yes govt was here first with weather and spy satellites. Not because the private sector could not do it but because the govt would not let the private sector do it off the govt leash. National security and all that BS. The govt didnt want other nations or people in general to have access to "military technology". Ask yourself who invented the satellites, orbiters, launch facilities, optics, sensors, etc. It was the private sector. If the govt did not block the private sector, all of this would have happened decades earlier.

GPS - same as mapping.


People like you claim that everything the govt touches no matter how lightly owes its creation to the govt and without the govt, we would still be living in caves eating rotting teradactyl. The govt only has money and rules. People have ideas and the drive to pursue them.

By the way, the first microprocessor was designed by the Japanese company Busicom for a calculator. No govt involvement. Now you will say the govt invented the integrated circuit. Sorry, the govt didnt. It was invented by Jack Kilby at Texas Instruments using IR&D funds. Take a look at the Kilby patent, zero govt involvement. Now I'm sure you will say something like the transistor was invented by the govt. Sorry, wrong again. Invented in 1954 by Bell Labs and independently by Gordon Teal at Texas Instruments - with zero govt involvement. And now you will calim something life Texas Instruments had govt defense contracts and owes its existence to the govt. Wrong again. TI was formed in the 1930's as a oil exploration company and worked for the private oil companies. It did branch into defense work in WW2 but it utilized its expertise in sensors (oil exploration).

I doubt there are any inventions that are only the result of the govt and would never have happened otherwise.

 

Now apply inflation and one can imagine the cost of such a failure in 2012. Debt for the government back then was 100 billion or so and big money. Now days government debt is 16 trillion. Historical references are also good for understanding the impact inflation has had on our nation, and that federal notes are nearly worthless.

 

Big things like hydroelectric dams, a new Interstate highway system, or even a US trip to the Moon have all been sacrificed to support the entitlements. SS, Medicare, and Medicaid have consumed the federal budget.

...and the EPA blocks the private sector.

 

Companies are only going to get involved in research if they can make a profit. There is little profit cures for cancer (treating symptoms is lucrative, curing is not) or researching the expansion of the universe. How many private industries would fund the Hubble telescope, Martian Rovers, Galileo, Pioneer, Voyager and more?
You, as most proponents of the "free market", are cherry picking the failures and completely ignoring the successes.
Rural areas would have been left back in the 19th century without government help because there was no profit in building the the electrical and communications infrastructure.

If you seriously believe that, then you have no clue as to what it takes to launch a vehicle into space. Where did they get there stability systems? What research did they do on nozzle design? How about materials and their ability to withstand the heat of re-entry?

You really do not have a clue, do you?
Benefits of the NASA space program

Do you honestly think that private companies would have spent $trillions (your number) on research and still made a profit?

 

So, which civilians designed and built it? Which civilians were going to shell out billions for a system they couldn't derive revenue from?

GPS was entirely a government-military creation. Hiring a few civililians does not somehow turn a 100% government project into a private-sector project. Nobody "targeted" the government. The government originated the idea, designed the system and built it. From bottom to top, it was entirely a government creation. GPS would not have happened, ever, without the government. No private investor is going to invest billions in a system that broadcasts a free signal, because they can't recoup their investment. If the government dropped GPS, no private sector product would replace it, unless they found a way to charge a massive fee for it, which would make it vastly inferior to the current GPS system.

 

Wrong. Many people do things just for the sake of doing them. Ever heard of non-profit and not-for-profits?

Cure for cancer not profitable? Are you crazy? A "cure" for cancer would be incredibly rewarding.

Research the expansion of the universe - I guess there was never research in that area before the late 20th century when the govt got involved. I mean its not like there was a Newton or Copernicus or Galileo. Or an Einstein who did his groundbreaking work on his own time. I mean, nobody is curiuos about those things.

And I guess SpaceX is just a myth.

I don't know. Plenty of private companies design and build and launch their own satellites. And a lot cheaper than the govt.

Because govt does it does not mean that ONLY govt will do it.

No, you miss the point entirely.

When govt is responsive to the people, and controlled by the people, then the govt reflects the peoples objectives. "Government" is nothing more than people coming togethor to achieve a common goal. People organize to work towards a common goal in many ways - corporations, churches, charities, universities. Govt is not the only way for people to advance.

But govt is not required for advancement particularly when the govt no longer represents the people. Govt exists off of the private sector, not the other way around.

You and others ignore the failures, and assume the only route to progress is through the govt.

Amazing how much you know about me without me teling you anything. Did you call one of those 900 psychic numbers?

My arguement does not require my personal credentials.

Address the issue at hand, unless you can't and have to resort to personal inuendo.

LOL As to the benefits of NASA, your link http://www.sac.edu/AcademicProgs/Sc...Pages/Benefits-of-the-NASA-Space-Program.aspx is nothing more than a glorified list of things that NASA funding or support has touched. That is not a list of inventions that are solely due to NASA.

Some are ridiculuos to attribute to NASA. I like the inclusion of the MRI - that was invented by Herman Carr in 1952 before there was a "space program". It was also invented in the USSR in the 1950's. Development of the MRI was undertaken by many organizations, some funded privately some from the govt. Take a look at the patents for the MRI (heres one U.S. patent #3,789,832 ), no govt involvement listed.

Or doppler radar. What a hoot.

That list is ridiculous.


Take a look at my list - "Benefits from Apollo", National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Lyndon B. Johnson Space Center FS-2004-07-002-JSC, July 2004
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/ames/pdf/80660main_ApolloFS.pdf

Written by NASA so its going to be as upbeat as possible. Some items on the list are good, but its not an impressive list. And if Apollo had never happened, I doubt we would miss any of those contributions. SOme are unimportant, others would have been invented anyway.

 

Big hydro dams. None built since the sixties.

The Interstate Highway System. Largely finished by 1970.

Americans have not gone to the Moon since the early 70s.

Medicare and Medicaid began really biting into the economy about 1970.

See a pattern?

 

It all comes down to November TC. There is still a chance to reverse the trend (the downfall of the American Empire). If we do not either get rid of Lord Obama and/or take the senate they will continue to pack the welfare rolls to ensure a permanent subclass that votes every year to continue to print money (democrat). The demos in power don't give a rats patoot that it means we will be a 3rd world nation within 20 years, they want their millions to retire on today........

"the American legal system will survive only to the point where the politicians realize they can buy votes with other peoples money".....(I forget who and don't have the time to look it up....

 

You realize we have had several republican presidents and congresses since 1970, right? Yet, you somehow think a candidate more progressive than any prior will be your knight in shinning armor? You'd make more impact, in a shorter period of time, taking out the millions of deadbeats one at a time with your own 2 hands. Not to mention, if any of your answers involving jobs or wages start with, "Americans need to get used to.....", YOU better get used to government paying people's bills.

 

So why don't you name some of these and the contributions they have made to science.

Again, show me successful, non-government involved cancer research.

You comparing the research from 400 years ago to today's research? Then you will not mind if I use the 6000 yo government built pyramids to show how successful and lasting a government project can be. But seriously, funding research was not comparable to today. And much of the the research 400 years ago was, directly or indirectly financed by government. IIRC, Galileo was employed by the a local government.

I noticed you did not answer the question on what research other than their own SpaceX needed.
From the spacex website:

So I guess it was not their (SpaceX's) "own design, done their own way". And I can state the govt did it first.
Sorry, "plenty" is not a convincing argument. I maintain that no private company designs and builds their own satellites without using research conducted by the Us government.

Let me be real clear here so you do not make this statement again:
I never said nor meant to imply that because govt does it means that ONLY govt will do it.
IMO, research and development is most efficient when government and private industry work together. Some research such as space exploration) is too expensive for any one company to finance, and only government can afford it.

I do not have time for any more. I may return if i feel like it.

 

I see we begin to agree. Govt does have a role and a govt/private sector partnership does make contributions.

The best example is a flu vaccine, not space exploration. The flu vaccine is a shot in the dark, you have to predict what flu virus will show up. Its expensive to make a vaccine in quantity, and the risk of failure is high. Its not a winning proposition for the private sector so the govt needs to step in and supply funding and legal protection. The flu vaccine is a rare example of something positive happening only because of govt involvement.

Space exploration is expensive because the govt is involved and had a monopoly for decades. Nobody could launch a satellite except through NASA. Private launch facilities were not permitted, private satellites were not permitted, private launch vehicles were not permitted.

Read this for some insight http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0411/Byko-0411.html

 

Meh! You are talking with an Aussie - we have experimented with government run businesses (even airlines and banks) and they work - not as efficiently all the time but they do work. Trouble is big business can become as non-functional as you seem to think the government is all the time. I see the inherent problem as being one of size of business - over a certain size ANY corporation wether they be government or business has some inherent inefficiencies.

 

I just have one question.

What the heck would we do with a giant monster dam like that monster in China?