What armed self defense really looks like.

Not to knock on you, AA, but the .223 and 5.56x45 cartridge cases are identical in every dimension, down to the thousandth. You are correct about the difference in pressures between SAAMI and MIL. The real difference between a .223 chamber and a NATO chamber is leade, and this is for the same reason why standard NATO rifling twist is 1 turn in 7". It's because tracer bullets are longer than ball. The longer tracer bullets are seated farther out from the neck of the case (tho not always). The physically longer bullets require a faster twist to stabilize. My ArmaLite M15 has a twist rate of 1 turn in 9", which I believe to be optimum for the caliber.
Our standard 62 gr. green tip "penetrator" round is intended to leave the muzzle of a 14.5" M4 barrel at just over 3,000 fps. That's why the higher pressure for NATO. The reason for the high velocity is to maintain enough velocity for the bullet to at least partially fragment at velocities down to around 2,650 fps. This puts the optimum range for the M4 at around 150 yards or less. Recently, special units have been using heavier bullets, up to 75 gr. That's the heaviest bullet that can be seated at magazine length for an AR/M4. These have lower velocities, but higher ballistic coefficients, so they remain slightly more accurate over longer distance.
Chrome lining does NOT diminish the bore dia. This is already accounted for before the plating is done. Same with Melonite coated barrels.
There are a zillion more things to know, but I try to just stick with what matters to me, in hand loading for my own guns.

 

I was 'a little" erroneous about why the 5.56 chamber has more leade. This compensates a bit for the higher pressure, by allowing the bullet to accelerate to around 600 fps before it engages the lands and grooves. This can cause a bit of "skidding", where jacket material is shorn before the bullet begins to spin, but it prevents a pressure peak that could happen if the bullet wasn't moving fast enough.
Everything I "know" is only a matter of reading comprehension and retention, except for what I've researched myself. Here's the real authority:
http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html
Select any caliber you want to know about from the list on the left.

 

www.gunssavelives.net

Good thread, Thought I would add a bit more

 

Log....the Soviet GRU had two SETS....each set being 10 to 16....made up EVERY YEAR....and every year the FAKE SET....of 10 to 16 U.S. Mainland Invasion Plans....would curiously fall into our hands or be purchased....mostly purchased.

The REAL Soviet plans were only specific to a Warsaw Pack invasion of NATO.

NONE of the real plans involved a Soviet Invasion of Canada and the U.S. through Alaska as such an invasion was deemed....IMPOSSIBLE.

China today and since about 1999....does the same thing....leeks the fake set of plans to the west....but we know that there is no possible way for China to invade the U.S. Mainland.

China is not even capable of nor does it have the mobility to invade Taiwan as all Chinese Troop Transport ships would be sitting ducks for the USN...and USAF. Their ships would be blown out of the water by our subs and aircraft and carrier aircraft before they were 50 miles out to sea.

AboveAlpha

 

I agree with your entire post except for the LEADE thing.

What did I post specifically that you are disagreeing with because I really have no idea?

AboveAlpha

 

As far as our plans of invading either China or the Old Soviet Union.....HUNDREDS.....we have networked Supercomputers running 24/7 dedicated to one thing....creating war scenarios.

We have a plan for just about every possibility including a U.S. Land Invasion of China, the old Soviet Union....Russia now....and every country....every continent and ocean on earth INCLUDING Antarctica.

AboveAlpha

 

OK...JOE....I just read this.

Forget I asked about the leade thing in my previous post.

AboveAlpha

 

Thanks for bearing with me, AA. While we're here, we may as well point out that 7.62x51 and .308 Win. are identical as well, except that in this case, the SAAMI spec. is 5,000 psi over NATO. This is because of the actuating rod in the M-14, which can be bent if pressure runs over 50,000 psi (not sure if it's psi or cup).
I think it's good for the casual observer to have a look around:
www.6mmbr.com/index.html
anyway, because you see that many of us are very much into the sporting uses of firearms. The technical knowledge base and procedural work involved with producing precision results is a notable challenge. Armed self defense is NOT the object for many of us, but it certainly IS included in the possible applications of our little hobby. For example, if you see a guy out in the sticks, trying hard to keep all of his shots on a piece of paper that is 1,900 yards away, don't take pot shots at him.

 

Joe....the thing is....unfortunately for some people....it takes a real life tragedy to occur before they purchase a weapon.

No one want's to shoot anyone but if your in your home and a few criminals break in and over power you and rape or kill your family members.....you would sure as Hell be wanting a gun at the time.

AboveAlpha

 

More fun to be found in reading up on just what the "shooting sports" are:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sport
There are literally millions of Americans right now who enjoy this stuff. It's interesting to read in that article that the NRA began in England, and the first American long range rifle shooting camp was established in New York, with funding from the State!
In our time, 3 gun matches and any of the auto pistol competitions will give you a very good look at "What armed self defense really looks like".
-Just read your last post, AA. Sad, but you're right. I say it's part of the Urban MIS teaching that is all too common now. People who live in the more rural areas of our country are "naturally" familiar with guns, and taking care of themselves in general. Home invasions do happen in farm country, but they're far less frequent. Partly because the bad guys know that the 10 year old little girl of the family is just as likely to wield the shotgun as her daddy. I don't know what can be done for the urbanites. Not my camp.

 

I enjoy watching those Trick Shooter shows were these guy's throw up a quarter and shoot a hole through it.

AboveAlpha

 

Even though I work with a Sig....my favorite handgun is a S&M .357 revolver.

The .357 settles right back down to target after shooting and is extremely accurate.

AboveAlpha

 

If the reason land invasion of the US is deemed "impossible" predominantly because of the logistical difficulty of moving troops - rather than fear uncle Jebediah's shotgun will be used to overpower mechanized infantry - then what does this have to do with the topic?

 

A small nuke on a beachhead would be very discouraging.

 

Not sure this has anything to do with illustrating how uncle Jebediah's shotguns are relevant...

 

If someone isnt planning to invade, a nuke on the beach head is a more likely
deterrent than jeb shotgun.

Or hundreds of thousands of able bodied people armed and capable with
modern assault and sniper type weapons.

 

If someone isn't planning to invade, what would you be deterring? Seems like a waste of a perfectly good nuke.

 

I do hope all nuclear weapons will "go to waste"! Who knows if someone
has invasion plans, our source who claims to have inside access isnt too credible.

I think it was in '86 that Taiwan gave up funding the study of invasion plans for re taking the mainland from the communist rebels.

So you never know what someone might be thinking.

 

It is deemed...IMPOSSIBLE....because of a combination of things one being Uncle Jebediah's shotgun....and 30.06....and AR-15....and .308....etc.

First of all....NO COUNTRY....or even GROUPS OF COUNTRIES....or even....THE NAVY'S OF EVERY COUNTRY ON EARTH....are capable of getting through U.S. Navy Defenses.

Secondly....and remember....we are talking about a CONVENTIONAL WAR....or LIMITED TACTICAL NUCLEAR WAR.....because if it ever went all out THERMONUCLEAR WAR.....the damn radioactive fallout would KILL EVERYONE ON EARTH.....including all Plant and Animal Life.....

Secondly......the ONLY viable way....and it really isn't viable either but we will pretend it is for the sake of this argument...the only way to invade the U.S. would be via Alaska from Russia.

Thirdly...let's say the invasion force successfully moved 500,000 to 2,000,000 Troops and Equipment and weapons into Alaska and Canada....we would use Tactical Nukes.....or Non-Nuclear EMP's....Electromagnetic Pulse Weapons....to either destroy them or render them useless.

But let's say that didn't happen either for argument sake.

Fourthly....even if 5 MILLION Invading Soldiers made it over to North America....they would still have to face a MASSIVE U.S. MILITARY GROUND FORCE....and there is not a country in the world that can even come close to defeating a U.S. Tank Battle Group....which is similar in arrangement to a USN. Carrier Battle Group as Abram's Tanks are couples with Bradly's, Apache Long Bow Attack Choppers, Self Propelled Artillery....Rocket Artillery which is SO ACCURATE AND SO DEADLY and so capable of hitting from extreme long ranges....no countries Tank Division in the WORLD....can handle such an attack.....NEVER MIND THE USAF.

But...for argument sake let's pretend all we had was 350 Million People in Canada and the U.S. who not only ALREADY have a gun for every person....but would be supplied ADVANCED WEAPONRY AND ASSAULT RIFFLES from cashes all over North America that have been supplied with such weapon systems and Mines and Shoulder Fired Anti-Aircraft Missiles and everything else you can think of....and unlike Russia or China which has very little in the way of a proper road and bridge and infrastructure to supply all their people with AK's and the like...the U.S. and Canada DO!!!

AboveAlpha

 

The Chinese Communist Party STILL are developing plans to Invade Taiwan....even though it is most likely at this point that mainland China in it's ever greater turning towards a Capitalistic System as well as the inevitable changing of Communist China to a DEMOCRACY....because as the Old Communist Guard dies out....the Younger and better educated Chinese will be demanding greater freedoms and little things like....the Communist Party putting what amounts to a CHILD GUARD FILTER on the average Chinese person's internet access....is only going to be put up with by the Chinese People for so long.

AboveAlpha

 

You've made an exceptionally clear point that our military capabilities are what would keep us safeguarded against any attempted invasion by any foreign power.
If anything, this only makes it clearer that it is not uncle Jebediah's firearms that deter potential invaders, which was my point.

 

You have made a point but I am not saying that Uncles Shotgun is the ONLY thing preventing any country from invading the U.S.....I mentioned it as saying the U.S. Population is the most heavily armed population in the World...but I did not say this was the ONLY reason that makes a U.S. Mainland Invasion Impossible.

But let's just for Ha Ha's look at it this way.

Say we didn't have our massive military or navy and etc....other than a good standing army and a heavily armed population.

Those two things alone are enough to stop any invasion cold.

Even without an powerful standing army....if Iraq had 320 Million People who all had Guns we would NOT have invaded Iraq even with our Massive Military.

AboveAlpha

 

As you may recall, this whole exchange began when it was implied that America could not be invaded because American civilians are too well armed.
As you've clearly illustrated, this is irrelevent since it would never come to that anyway.

 

True...that is correct.

But I sleep much easier knowing my Sig is right where I can get at it.

I think a more important statistic that is specific to Guns is that it is a statistical FACT....that legally heavily armed populations such as a town or city...have a VASTLY lower crime rate and vastly lower accidental gun death rate.

AboveAlpha

 

Where I live pretty much every household has a gun. In the 15 years I've lived here there was only one gun death and that was due to negligence. Some junkie thought it was a great idea to get high before trying to sell a gun to a friend then he had a negligent discharge which killed his friend. There was someone else here that got knifed to death. More people in this town have died from cars than from violence.

Then again results also vary from place to place. There aren't really any gangs here or high poverty rates like in Detroit or Chicago. That has a tendency to affect crime statistics.