Why America is hated: An alternate view of 9/11 and U.S. foreign policy

Certainly America is a target because it's the bieggest dog on the block. This explains precisely whay America is often blamed first. This is rather predictable behavior toward to big dog. Where the hatred comes in is our reaction to this, to some extent, sour-grapes reaction. American foreign policy is often completely oblivious to the fact that magnanimity is always the responsibility of the more powerful prty. Failing to recognize this makes the powerful into a bully.

The bully takes what he wants because he has the power to. The bully smashes those who bad-mouth him because he can. Since it will always be true that it will always be an uphill battle for the powerful to gain trust, it will always be the responsibility of the powerful to meet those whom he wishes to befriend, or at least not antagonize, MORE than halfway. But America almost never does this.

To see the benefits that can be gained by the powerful being more than merely fair, we must go almost all the way back to the Nuremberg trials. When the world saw the great pains we took to create a believably impartial trial for people guilty of massive attrocities, its positive opinion of us as a powerful force of justice in the world soared.

But ever since then America has been off the rails. Secret evidence, secret prisons, indefinite incarceration, Orwellian practices such as "extraordinary rendition" and cynical attempts to redefine torture through legalistic hari-splitting, war after war where we rain terror on people who can barely shoot back, unqualified support of dictators for mere economic expediency, and more, and we have abrogated any claims to be a moral beacon to the world. We have squandered our good name, and have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

Where did Al Queda come from? They greaw partially out of the ashes of the Mujahideen following the Afghanistan war with the USSR, backed by Reagan under the Reagan doctrine. Carter has some blood on his hands too for this.

Reagan called them "freedom fighters." Now they apparently "hate our freedom." This kind of Orwellian spin is typical by both sides in every armed conflict and I will not fall prey to it.

 

We supported the Afghan Mujahideen. Al Qaeda are primarily Arabs.

 

many of whom travelled to Afghanistan to receive military training courtesy of the US tax payer.

 

Well, partially.

I think that the reason that Osama bin Laden picked NYC and the USA instead of Europe was that we are a big dog, but also the fact that we are meddlers in the affairs of the Middle East. We've had a had with the overthrow of the Shah in Iran, we throw money and weapons to our allies to do our bidding. That will bring about resentment. But the bigger thing is culture -- the Islamic Fundementalists see us as corrupt, liscentious people imposing our culture on their societies. Their people watch our cable channels, visit Europe, dress like westerners, and so on. For the fundies, this is horrifying -- it means that their interpretation of Islam is losing, and that more liberal theological ideas are winning. The war may target us, but I think it's as much a propaganda campaign for muslim consumption as a war against US. The targeting of the TWC only makes sense that way. If the point was millitary, than why go after civillian bankers? They weren't occupying anything. They just bought and sold stocks. But as a cultural target, it seems to make more sense -- go after the people who are enabling the spread of Western ideas.

 

Afghans are not arabs. We supported the Afghan mujahideen. Al Qaeda had its own financing primarily from wealthy Arabs in the Gulf states. Many of those same Mujahideen formed the Northern Alliance who defeated the Taliban.

 

Good for the USA!

We will continue to support Israel and will do so far into the distant future.

Many people on the Left had hoped our support for Israel would wane when Barack Obama was elected president.

But it has not. Even Obama understands how important our support for Israel is to U.S. interests in the Middle East.

There will never be peace in the Middle East until the Palestinians and their allies come to the conclusion they love their children more than they hate Israel.

Until that day comes, there will always be conflict between Israel and the Arabs, and by choice, we will be right in the middle of it!

 

It really does seem like a waste of resources being in Afghanistan doesn't it? What are we accomplishing, what will be accomplished, what lasting impact will our presence there have 10 years down the road?

What an utter waste, same goes with Iraq.

 

Muslims from all over the world no longer travel to Afghanistan for terrorist training in the Al Qaeda camps, and Al Qaeda no longer has the sanctuary of Afghanistan to enjoy while they plot how to attack the US, like they did before 9/11.

 

????? Like someone suggesting before WWII we should try to win the hearts and minds of the Nazis because if we oppose them, they might get mad at us.
These Islamic fundamentalist want to overthrow all governments and replace them with an Islamic Caliphate to govern strictly according to Islamic law. And believe that Allah has commanded them to kill the unbelievers, including Americans, to help bring that about. I have no interest in winning their hearts. I want them dead or in fear of their death by our hands.

 

The Taliban continue to attack us from within Afghanistan, where are they coming from? When we leave and the mission is over, what is going to stop them from coming back to the country for training once Al Qaeda re-solidifies without our presence?

 

They are from Afghanistan and the Afghan government will be there to deal with them. They and the Afghan people have all the motivation needed to prevent the Taliban from returning to power. I doubt even the Taliban would welcome Al qaeda if they were to regain control. Would probably avoid them like the plague.

 

You are very correct, dixon76710.

Are you aware the Taliban was originally placed in power by Pakistan? They wanted to establish a buffer from India who had their eyes on Afghanistan after the Soviets were driven out.

James Cessna

 

Now they go to Pakistan instead and we accomplished nothing by our invasion of Afghanistan. Instead of fewer terrorists there are now more terrorists and they simply moved next door.

 

Many forget that the reason the Northern Alliance was not in power in Afghanistan prior to the US invasion was because they were more corrupt than the Taliban which is why the warlords didn't support them. They are proving to be more corrupt than the Taliban today and once NATO leaves I predict the Taliban will return to power.

 

Most of them moved to Iraq and got killed. Those that left Iraq with their lives, no longer had the option of returning to Afghanistan. And I see no evidence of more terrorists. As well, the support for Al Qaeda among the general population has drastically declined from its high point following 9/11.

 

What is wrong with killing the Pashtuns as a coherent ethnic group? There can't be any sort of peace as long as Pashtuns are alive. They won't stop killing Americans.

 

Leo, this statistic pales into insignificance to what happened in Laos due to American bombing sorties.

Due to Amercan carpet bombing of Laos, 25%-30% of the population were either killed or injured out of a population of around 4 million people. 2 million tons of bombs over a nine year period. Do the maths.

Then Americans asks, "Why are we hated so much?"

Get a grip on reality!

 

Laotians aren't a problem. They don't hate America. Only Europeans, Arabs, other Muslims, and a few Chinese hate America.

 

You get a grip. There were PLENTY of aussie troops getting their own warfare in. It's not like Australia just sat idly by. They took an active role in the war.

I'd sure like to know where you got your bull (*)(*)(*)(*) numbers from because the Ho Chi Minh trail was not exactly the most built up area of Laos and if masses of Laotians were killed, it was because they were transporting war materials down the Ho Chi Minh trail.

But, let me guess.. The Ho Chi Minh trail didn't exist right? If you go helping America's enemies in a warzone, chances are at some point you are going to die. It's just that simple.

 

See folks, this is what happens when you get your history off the back of a Cornflakes box. You lose all sense of reality.

1. At that time, Laos was a monachy and anti communist. The Laos goverment didn't aid North Vietnam with transportation of men and machinery down the Ho Ci Minh trails, in fact, for centuries, the Lao hated the Vietnamese.The small number of Pathet Lao (Lao communists) did assist the North Vietnamese.

2. The Ho Chi Minh trails ran down the south eastern border of Laos adjoining Vietnam. Savannkhet province has the unenviable fact of the most bombed region on this planet. Xieng Kouang province, hundreds of kilometres away from the Ho Chi Minh trails is second. Savannaket and XiengKouang were totally smashed by American bombing sorties. Now include provinces like Bokeo, in the far north western part of Laos, on the Thai/Burmese border was also extensively bombed, as was Luang Namtha province in the far north on the Chinese border. The bombing of Sekong town is the Dresden of SE Asia. No industry and totally smashed for no reason.

This stupid excuse that only the the Ho Chi Minh trails areas were bombed is a smoke screen.

3.The American military started carpet bombing Laos in May 1964, three months before the Gulf of Tonkin Incident and 10 months before the commencement of Rolling Thunder. The bombing of Laos set the precident for all wars to follow where by wars are fought from the air.

4. Xieng Kouang province is a sad case. The CIA through false promises sent mountain tribe people in to fight the Pathet Lao. When all the men were killed, 12-14 year olds were sent in and from 1968 against battled hardened NVA troops. I can take you to districts in Xieng Kouang where you'll be hard pressed to find men over 50 years of age. An entire generation of productve and reproductive males snuffed out.

The CIA bribed the mountain tribes to step up their growing of opium in place of rice and other crops. The trick was, the mountain tribes were promised food aid if the only grew opium. This opium was shipped to Vientiane, processed into heroin, then ended up in the arms of American GIs in Vietnam. This funded the dirty secret war in Laos.

If the mountain tibes refused to obide, all food aid was pulled.

Now, let's fast forward to today. Laos is the most UXO infected country in the world. A conservative estimate is that there are still 30 million UXOs (mainly cluster munitions) littering the Lao countyside,, some say as many as 80 million, in a country smaller than Britain ith a current population of around 6.5 million people.

Another sad fact, America spent more money daily bombing Laos than it does yearly cleaning up their mess.

 

My guess is the Pashtuns feel the same way about Americans.

And by your own logic, you can't disagree with them.

 

It would help if we knew the entire truth about 9/11 since we do not as evident in the very least by Lee Hamilton saying in the past few weeks that the "Commission's report was not a final report."

But, we don't care, we're Americans and questioning admittedly unfinished reports is just loony "conspiracy"! I mean, NIST didn't test for explosives because they simply did not want to be bothered even though other experts did and found overwhelming evidence of explosives, but hey, it is what it is. Don't be a nutter.

 

To add, Laos was in the flight path between Thailand and North Vietnam. Thailand, namely Udon Thani and Ubon Ratchathani which were two of the launching places for Rolling Thunder.

Bomber pilots would jettison there payloads anywhere over Laos if they couldn't find their targets over North Vietnam because they refused to land with a payload.

Laos was a very secret war and no rules of engagement applied as in Vietnam.

 

Indeed. But I have Pashtuns accessible to me in Fremont, Califorina. Those Pashtuns are innocent men, women and childen. But they are now hostages for the good behavior of their co-religionists in the Pashtun wali.

The Pashtuns of Fremont are unarmed soft targets for drive-bys. The Pashtuns of Pashtun wali are hard targets for droid killers.

If an American dies in the Pashtun wali, a Pashtun should die in Fremont. What's fair is fair.