Why libertarianism isn't conservatism

I should point out to the readers of this thread that libertarians are really into conspiracy theories as well as moral depravity. According to one of the most respected conspiracy theorists (Infowars Alex Jones), the children and faculty at Sandy Hook Elementary School really weren't murdrered and the government is hiding them away somewhere. Yes, actors played the role of the forever grieving parents at the funerals of those children.

Let me guess: You and your...ahem...roommate aren't radical?

 

Patricio Da Silva said: ↑
Sounds nice, but how does that translate in the world of health care? Social services? Child lunch programs? And many of the programs currently in force to help the needy?

This is one of the areas where libertarians borrow off of Judeo-Christian doctrine, of course without giving the Bible credit for the stance. It's already been shown that libertarian social policies create poverty (broken people and thus broken homes), and that they turn to goverment programs in an attempt to fix the problems that they created, but let's see one of many things that the Bible has to say about not working:

“For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat. For we hear that some among you walk in idleness, not busy at work, but busybodies. Now such persons we command and encourage in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work quietly and to earn their own living” (2 Thessalonians 3:10-12).

You won't find anywhere in Holy Scripture where it says that civil government should be involved in redistributing wealth, but you will find numerous passages about charity for the poor (the poor being those that can't work, which in this day and age is pretty much just the elderly, as even disabled people are able to work in this modern age due to technology).

 

Ancient Israel was not only taxed heavily, but also had laws for farmers to give a part of their produce to the needy. They has temple tax, "poll tax" income tax and mandatory labor service etc. As a matter of fact it was the issue of heavy handed taxation which led to the split of the kingdom into Israel and Judea. And of course they had a myriad of religious laws which mandated sacrifices etc

 

Most people who live in poverty actually do work. Its a common misnomer amongst conservative circles that the only poor people are the ones who dont have jobs.


How do you handle say, a 55 year old truck driver who just lost his job to a self driving vehicle? Who very likely has no other skill that is able to make anywhere near as much money?

 

My father who was a libertarian and my Urologist who is a libertarian said the same thing: That borders need to be enforced. Libertarians realize some libertarian thoughts aren't practical for good governance like open borders and a different currency for each state, for examples...Sometimes, IMO, the libertarian learns the hard way as in the transition from The Articles of Confederation to The Constitution, for example.

 

Thanks for pointing out that in ancient Israel they went against biblical doctrine when it came to redistributing wealth. I suppose that had something to do with God rejecting them huh?

 

Libertarian social polcies aren't working out well for society are they? You'll find that back before morally depraved social policies were a way of life in the US, poverty wasn't nearly as common as today.

 

Then your father (the Urologist) went against libertarian doctrine in that area. What was the basis for your father (the Urologist) for identifying as a libertarian?

If libertarians learned the hard way they would know that their social policies are total failures and would abandon them and turn to Judeo-Christian doctrine.

 

Huh? It was not against biblical doctrine. Tax collection was routine, and God even mandated some taxes. Tax collectors were considered outcasts, as they are today, but the expenses of the kingdom had to be paid for so taxes were an necessary evil.

When people raved against tax collectors and called the outcasts, Jesus said: 'I have not come to call respectable people, but outcasts'. This is in like with the way he treated the adulterer, and others. You should learn from it, as opposed to judging people, because this "love your neighbor" is a vary important part of His teachings.

 

Who said anything about that the necessity of taxation to run government is immoral? Mark 12:17.

The forced redistribution of wealth is what is immoral.

How can I love my very bestest friend in the whoooole wide world when I don't speak out against and use the force of govermnent to prohibit he and his...ahem...roommate from engaging in immoral and extremely destructive acts that will cut their lifespan short by decades and separate them from God for eternity?

Libertarianism is the polar opposite of Judeo-Christian doctrine and hence Jesus's two greatest commandments.

 

Then you opinion is that God's order to collect tax is immoral. Sue Him. Wait, -you already

I told you. Study the life of Jesus, and learn how he loved all those people you have disdain for. He never asked anyone to do what you are doing. If you had been there, you would have asked the Romans to round up gays and punish them, while Jesus said "I do not condemn you, - go and sin no more".

 

I used that term because you've used it multiple times and somehow seems comforting to you. So, assuming you have a good grasp of English, tell me what "I'm more a "I'm not a libertarian" conservative" means?

 

Thank you for your anecdotal evidence.

 

aCultureWarrior said: ↑
Who said anything about that the necessity of taxation to run government is immoral? Mark 12:17.
The forced redistribution of wealth is what is immoral.

So now that you've not been able to find anywhere in Holy Scripture where God not only approves of moral depravity (proving that there is no such thing as a "Libertarian Christian"), but also never granted government to take from the haves and give to the have nots. why is it that you libertarians love big government but pretend that you don't?

aCultureWarrior said: ↑
How can I love my very bestest friend in the whoooole wide world when I don't speak out against and use the force of government to prohibit he and his...ahem...roommate from engaging in immoral and extremely destructive acts that will cut their lifespan short by decades and separate them from God for eternity?

Do you not know that repentance is the key tenet to Christianity? I keep telling you libertarians to quit throwing darts at the Bible and to read it for it's true meaning.

Rome fell because of widespread homosexuality (evidently libertarianism didn't work in ancient Rome like it's not working here)
Fall of Roman Empire caused by widespread homosexuality – News that matters (ivarfjeld.com)

Had the Romans followed Holy Scripture and thus understood what the role of civil government is as seen in Romans 13, then it wouldn't have been another version of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Now that we've reviewed history Aaron, how about you team up with your...ahem...roommate and we discuss modern libertarianism and how (in your mind) it helps individuals and nations as a whole?

 

aCultureWarrior said: ↑
I read your post where you stated

Lil Mike said: ↑
I'm more a "I'm not a libertarian" conservative

Explain what that means. If you were a conservative you wouldn't have to mention libertarianism, as they're polar opposites.

I coined the phrase "I am NOT a libertarian! libertarian" for my very bestest friend in the whooooole wide world and his...ahem...roommate who for some reason adamantly defend libertarianism, but don't want to be identified as one. I keep telling Aaron that he doesn't have to dish out the 25 cent membership fee to the Libertarian Party in order to be a libertarian, his HATRED of his fellow man and wanting to do extreme harm to him through libertarian ideology and actions is enough

So tell me Mike (aka, aka aka), what are your thoughts on how selfish and destructive libertarian ideology and the political movement that accompanies it?

 

I explained my views of libertarianism in post # 5 of this thread, apparently to no avail.

 

You claim 600F burning jet fuel produced 2200F molten steel to pour out of the south tower, because you do not have an IQ high enough to understand basic science. You are an invalid, a sub human, a parrot of lies who gets 97% of reality wrong....

 

My other anectodal evidence would be that many Libertarians flocked to Trump because Trump thinks like a Libertarian- sort of...More so than most other GOPs, that's for sure.

 

http://www.politicalforum.com/index...ism-isnt-conservatism.592270/#post-1072952295

Allow me to dissect it (i.e. tear your post to pieces}. How about we start off with

What are those "positions" and were they borrowed off of Judeo-Christian doctrine? (of course without giving it's Author credit).

Are you saying that libertarians promote their ideology out of ignorance of human nature? Be more specific.

 

Evil men in government are capable of committing atrocities, so I'm not going debate you on whether 9/11 was an inside job, but I will ask you this:

When a country's populace is high on drugs, doesn't that make it easier for evil men in government to do evil things, as the populace is not alert?

 

His two biggest issues, trade and immigration, were as far away from libertarianism as you can get. I don't know why libertarians would have been attracted to him as a candidate.

 

I was very specific in my post. I'm not sure what you're not getting.

"As an ideology that is highly dependent on economics as a crucial part of their belief system, libertarians share with Marxists the view that Man is a blank slate that responds only to incentives. In this way, libertarians are virtually identical to Marxists. Homo Economicus, as defined by Investopedia as “…a financial term that some economists use to describe a rational human being… Homo economicus, or economic human, is the figurative human being characterized by the infinite ability to make rational decisions. Certain economic models have traditionally relied on the assumption that humans are rational and will attempt to maximize their utility for both monetary and non-monetary gains.”

The Homo Economicus model is a great teaching tool in an economics class to explain economic incentives. It’s not an all-encompassing view of human nature. The inability of libertarians to deal with human’s penchant for making non rational (from a strictly incentives view) decisions tends to gum up the works. Family, religion, culture, language, status…unless these can be quantified as a unit of economic incentives, libertarians have no answers to their influence."

 

How would you know 'cause it's apparent you're not Libertarian.

 

Wasn't Matthew a tax collector?

 

I'll get to the points that you wrote in post #5 after you answer and hence we discuss my first two questions:

What are those "positions" and were they borrowed off of Judeo-Christian doctrine? (of course without giving it's Author credit).

Are you saying that libertarians promote their ideology out of ignorance of human nature? Be more specific.