Would you raise kids to be homophobes? No? Well why do you do this?

Baby steps.

Tentative baby steps.

One day at a time.

One post to the next.

It will be difficult but we can do it if we want to.

I only want what is best for America and if that's what you want then let's just try.

Stop teaching hatred of the Right to those who look up to you.

Just as you should never fight with your mate in front of the children you should stop speaking ill of the Right if anyone who might be influenced by your opinion is around to hear it.

That's a worthwhile first step.

 

In your opinion which is more preferable?

To be tolerated or to be shown respect?

 

I believe that respect is primordial. . .but that it is only superficial and fake if one is not taught to RESPECT people EVEN if they disagree or do not understand their life style, their race, their social standing.

TRUE respect comes from ACCEPTANCE of diversity, without preconceived judgment.

In fact, I do not really like the word "tolerance," as it seems a FAKE way to ACCEPT people. I much prefer "ACCEPTANCE" of diversity.

 

I'm sure there are terms my brothers and sisters on the Right also have minor issues with. But this is as good a common set of values as this organization has been able to come up with.

And If the list stayed this way the Right would likely go along with it.

How about you?

EDIT: Hey, it looks like you and I both overlooked this one!

Be tolerant and accepting of differences

 

Who's teaching anyone tit for tat? Are any of us teaching anyone to bomb churches, physically abuse Christians, telling kids that Christians are mentally ill and need treatment, proposing laws to legalize denying Christians goods and services, proposing amendments that forbid Christians to marry- should I go on?

Apologies are a good start. Thanks. But it's time for a little more than words if you are truly sincere.

 

How about a donut?

 

I think that starts with not identifying people as "the left" or "the right", as if they are just some general label. I generally avoid using such words in the first place, unless I'm very clearly talking about a generalization for sake of simplification. I generally believe that people have reasons for what they believe, which may or may not be wrong, but that does not generally mean that they deserve contempt. If a particular attribute of someone is contemptible, then I will generally try to discuss that particular attribute, rather than a generalization of "left", "right", "christian", "gay", or whatever, as there is way too much diversity within each group.

That all said, as others have pointed out, it seems a little presumptuous for you to come in here and lecture on this to us. EVERY side is guilty of this, and the way I see it, LGBT have been on the receiving end of this "hatred", "unfavorable views" and a history of discrimination for a whole lot longer. While I don't think any side is purely innocent, I do see one side as being a little more understandably pissed off. Nevertheless, no matter who is more in the right or the wrong, I will agree that the "fix" can come from any side. Encouraging mutual understanding is not so much about who is right or wrong, but rather how the discussion and interaction happens, whether people are made defensive or encouraged to be receptive. I do not believe that "demonizing the right" is a good way to go about that, as it just makes people defensive and unfairly generalizes, even if "the right" is just as guilty of doing the same. This mentality of trying to be "the better person" often guides a lot of my positions that sometimes gets me in trouble even with my own side. But I'm a pragmatist. I don't always do or support what is right or fair in principle, but rather what I think will be most right in practice.

 

You came in at the end of the process.

Read the thread and then let me know what you think.

Okay?

 

I read something about a donut above, so I didn't figure whatever happened in the middle was a very productive process.

 

You might want to take a look at that whole "judging a book by it's cover" thing.

After all, that's how we got Obama.

But don't worry. You aren't alone.



Or were you making a joke about the middle of a donut being a hole?

Pretty clever.

 

And speaking of the donut...

I think something is seriously wrong when someone has to be schmoozed in order for them to do what's in their own best interest.

Think about Mr. Wolf and John Travolta in Pulp Fiction.

[video=youtube;IgzFPOMjiC8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgzFPOMjiC8[/video]

So pretty please with sugar on top just stop giving outsiders a wedge they can drive between us when they want us to start killing each other in the streets of America like they are doing now in Ukraine.

Who needs to be asked nicely to possibly prevent bloodshed?

That's why the donut.

 

Well I can't say we are very far in disagreement with regard to wanting to ease division. Nevertheless as I said above, if easing the division and mutual understanding is your intention, I might work on the wording of the OP which does come off as lecturing and presumptuous, even if it was not your intention. It set the tone for many of the responses you got throughout the thread.

 

Guilty.

 

I concern myself less with "should" and "shouldn't", and more with what is practical. Making your point about what should or should not be the case will not help you at all in your effort to avert what really could happen (and may even make it worse). What matters is what CAN be and how to get there.

 

Great, so you're saying your side can't do with a lot of improvement? That's kind of sad. I guess I got my answer. You think that we should just take whatever you dish out and shut up and accept it. Well, now you know why you're in the situation you're in.

Perhaps you should take your own advice.

 

Well good, because I believe voting Republican is a sin, I don't hate Republicans, I just hate the act of voting Republican, because it's the embodiment of pure evil...

 

There is no reason to give certain people on the "Right" a pass on their bigoted ways.

It is time to reflect all the disdain and contempt right back at them that decent thinking people can muster.

 

You started off so well then dropped the ball just shy of the goal line... but I like the spirit of your argument and your candor. Others may flame you for it but your awkward honesty had a sincerity about it that is rare on the forums. So back to where you dropped the ball. The Left and the Right need to stop demonizing each other. Both sides stand upon their principles while lambasting the other for doing the same thing! Pure unadulterated hypocrisy says I. Gay Liberals are just as principled as Christian Conservatives... its just that they stand upon different principles.

I raised a daughter... I raised her as a Conservative father but I taught her to think for herself and make up her own mind. She has always been liberal and I never discouraged her from it. She is all grown up now (28 y/o) and as of a couple years ago I became a Liberal after a lifetime of being a Conservative. This has given me the ability to see a political argument from both sides... and both sides are to blame for the discourse in politics.

 

Once again

So far, all i have seen is you asking Liberals to change.

I haven't seen any commitment from yourself to not do what you tell Liberals not to do.

Nor do I see you asking Conservatives to change.

When I see that you are asking from both Liberals and Conservatives what you have committed yourself to- well then I will believe you have taken the first step.

When I see follow through on your behalf on posts here at PF, I will be glad to congratulate you on your efforts to reduce hate in America.

I look forward to the day when you take that worthwhile first step.

 

Yes it actually is. I will explain. I am gay I am also a Christian. I was raised Christian by Christian parents. They taught me that being gay was wrong. But in my teens I realized I was gay. I told my parents, they became upset. Told me how God didn't approve of my sexuality. I tried to be straight from the moment I discovered I wasn't. I prayed and resisted my desires for years. I often told myself that I was going to beat it. I believed it with all my heart. I received kudos for my attitude. It fell apart when my prayers were not answered. I was left in the cold. My faith faltered. I hated God for not helping me. I did everything I could but it was not enough not even close. I hated myself for not being good enough to be "fixed".

This rhetoric you are telling people is absolutely hate. You can tell yourself it isn't but nobody believes you but you.

If you teach them that love is conditional on their misery yes you absolutely hate that person. Good intentions pave the path to hell.

This is a lie you tell yourself to sleep the sleep of the just. Nothing more.

You are willfully blind. Hating the "sin" is hating the person. Why do Christians condone hate. Why not love the person in spite of the "sin"?

The problem I have with this hate the "sin" thing is the hate. Why not simply forego that party and just love. If you have hated in your heart there is no room for Jesus.

 

why do you think these things go hand in hand. I am Lgbt but I am also conservative.

The best thing to teach our children is not to hate anybody for any reason. Be responsible for themselves in their adulthood and to show kindness to everybody simply because they exist.

 

You can't see that the ass you save by controlling your own expressions of hatred toward the Right are yours and your family's and your children's and your very own *******NED COUNTRY.

No.it's not the situation the Right is in.

It's the situation we are all in together.

If you, one day are asked how things turned so bloody, or if you are wondering how it came to be that your children's hatred destroyed them, I wonder if you will remember this exchange.

Don't do something we'll all regret.

Be about maintaining America as a United country...a United people and not letting others play us against each other.

You can ruin this for everyone you know.

 

I believe these are a set of values we all can sign off on.

http://charactercounts.org/sixpillars.html

 

When something seems so obvious and clear and unmistakable to me and to most everyone else here yet you see it as something awful and malicious and unfair tells me you will have to learn the hard way.

Then begone from this exchange and take your hatred with you.

Raise a family. Teach school. Write posts and spread your hatred to as many as you can.

And then you will become what you hate.

Remember Martin Luther King only changed one side of the equation too.

 

I agree. It's sad though that there are people that reject these rules. The only way to make the change is to want to change.