Is killing an abortion doctor murder or self defense?

That's my point. They are free to what they want with their own pregnancies, but I don't have to respect their reasons for doing so either.

 

I have never heard of anyone getting an abortion because of stretch marks. That is how pro-lifers trivialize a need for abortion, that, and convenience. But again, stretch marks are not always a trivial thing, and I don't think it is shallow to want to avoid bodily damage that always results from pregnancy, because it can be significant.

 

You want to justify abortion over stretch marks? I don't need to go any farther than that to show your position is ludicrous.

 

Rubbing a little coco butter around her belly twice a day can greatly minimize and all but prevent any stretch marks. Some women have a vitamin E deficiency, or a rare medical condition, that prevents their skin from being elastic enough, and that can indeed lead to stretch mark issues during pregnancy. With the proper care, stretch marks can usually be avoided.

 

That is a myth, no cream can prevent stretch marks which are a complication for 90% of women
http://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/12-crazy-myths-about-pregnancy/3/

 

LOL, more abortionist misinformation. Prolife people oppose abortion as a means of birth control and convenience, about 5% of abortions are the hardship cases - rape, incest, life of the mother, extreme defect - the rest are because a baby is "inconvenient".

Prolife people do not oppose education, they might oppose "comprehensive education" by planned parenthood or some similar extremist abortion group who uses the education process as an excuse for political activity.

The goal is to eliminate abortion for the non-hardship cases, and education and the availability of birth control helps in that goal.

It doesn't matter what name you try to apply, its still a baby. That's your real problem and why abortionists go to such huge lengths to keep pictures out of the process. Its a baby, and everyone knows it.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, still on that self defense thing even after those threads were laughed off the forum.

 

It's a fact that many pro-lifers are opposed to comprehensive sex education. I have argued with enough of them to know that. They insist on "abstinence only" ed. It's also a fact that pro-lifers vehemently oppose freely available birth control. They oppose both sex ed and free condoms for teenagers because "it will encourage them to have sex."

That's what I'm talking about. They want "abstinence only" (shown to be ineffective) sex ed rather than comprehensive (which has been shown effective).

That is only a short-term goal. The pro-life movement believes life begins at conception, and the goal is to criminalize all abortion incrementally.

A zygote is not an embryo; an embryo is not a fetus; and a fetus is not a baby. You're engaging in emotional appeal and everyone knows it.

 

Murder-no ands ifs or buts. self defense requires the intervener to have a legal justification. it doesn't exist here

 

Not true. Self-defense is not the exact same thing as the lawful right to use deadly force. For example, the law allows a woman to use deadly force on her unborn child, but that's not necessarily self defense (though many pro-choicers would have us believe it is ). Similarly, there may be occasions where an individual has the moral and ethical natural right to use self defense, but it might not technically be lawful for him to do so.

 

Unlike Leach, why don't you stop being a coward and go off and kill an abortion doctor if you think it's "in defense of another" and see how it pans out for you?

Instead of reading these contrived arguments, we'd be reading a headline about your incarceration.

Here's the bottom line. I repeat, the bottom line.

No legal argument you can make will make killing an abortion doctor "In defense of another." Legally, scientifically and socially, a fetus is a fetus is a fetus, despite your pathetic attempts at a feel good argument about babies. It is not a baby, it's not a person, and it has no rights. That's the end, finished. You can't just complain and cry your way to taking away the rights of women who choose abortion as a viable alternative to -

the poorhouse
decreased work prospects
reliance on others for financial assistance
18 years of indentured servitude to a being wholly reliant upon them
lower social status

You also cannot sit here in your little ivory tower and act like adoption is some rose scented gold brick road that works out ever so perfectly. The narrative is old, dated and rotting. It's BS and everyone knows it.

No amount of horrifically inhumane anti abortion posters will change the law.

No amount of murder committed by extremists against abortion will change the law.


You and yours: YOU LOST. Just like southerners, GET OVER IT.

As for the bolded part above - let me ask you, if someone was doing something to your body that resulted in scarification similar to that picture, what would you do?

 

That picture was a very extreme case. Most women who experience stretch marks during pregnancy, it's not nearly that bad. And there are things women can do to minimize or prevent any marks entirely:
http://health.howstuffworks.com/ski...style/prevent-stretch-marks-when-pregnant.htm

 

Having sex is a normal, healthy thing to do - there are health benefits to it. Why should a woman abstain if she has no problem with aborting if she gets knocked up?

 

A small minority argue for abstinence only, but its ridiculous to claim that abstinence only is the complete pro-life position.

"Comprehensive sex education" means different things to different people. To an abortionist the emphasis is on free contraception to teens, lessons on how to have sex, gay sex, all the mechanics of sex, treatment for STD's, and if a kid has a "mistake" then just get an abortion. The "comprehensive" education would not get into marriage, true family planning, responsibility, the emotional and spiritual aspects of relationships, and certainly not even mention the word abstinence. And of course the children would be encouraged to come talk to the school about issues and bypass the parents completely.

If that's what you want, forget it, only a fool wants that type of "education".

 

It might be frivolous or stupid reason to some, but not to someone who makes her living modelling lingerie or swimsuits.

 

What are you talking about?

 

Okay let us get this bit straight from the start - there is no "bad people" doing "liberal things"

Good sex education STARTS with teens because that is when the sex drive begins - it is no good putting condoms in nursing homes

And you would think that in todays world with the Internet teens could access all the good information they wanted about safe sex - unfortunately the level of "truth" out there is abysmal

An example of ignorance, and be truthful about it, tell us the failure rate of the condom when used as a contraceptive - ideal use and usual use then I will post the researched and validated figures - bet they do not agree

 

what is the question posed in the thread? My answer is pretty directly responsive to the question.

 

Sure, if a woman doesn't want to stay pregnant in order to avoid stretch marks that's her right ...and there's NOTHING you can do about it

I see you're afraid of the rest of my post :No, the list is factual....PROVE IT'S EXAGERATED..........SHOW WHAT WAS EXAGERATED.....SHOW WHAT DOESN'T REALLY HAPPEN.....


NO Anti-AbortionChoicer has EVER proven that list untrue OR UNEXAGERATED.... OR ANYTHING BUT FACTUAL...... EVER.


It would be quite stupid to say women should just stop having sex.....when has the human race just stopped having sex? Women have every right to have sex and if they don't want to be pregnant have every right to get a medical procedure called abortion........they have every right to be as selfish as every other person on earth.

Some Anti-Choicers want to FORCE women to view ultrasounds because they think women are too stupid to know what "pregnant" means....how about they be forced to see the list of what pregnancy does to their bodies....

 

No , self defense was not laughed off the forum but I know Anti-Choicers need to lie to further their warped agenda....and I see you're another Anti-Choicer without the ability to decipher the big word "if"....

 

What a hypocritical stance....it's OK with you if "BABIES" are killed because of rape and incest but not OK for any other reason........why are you blaming the "babies" because their mother was raped....how could you blame those "innocent little LIVES" !!!!!!!!!!

 

There is NOTHING women can do to prevent the permanent changes in their body due to pregnancy.........get off the stupid stretchmark crap...

SHOW YOUR PROOF THAT PREGNACY CAUSES NO PHYSICAL HARM TO WOMEN OR SHUT UP.


No Anti-Choicer has EVER shown proof that pregnancy doesn't harm women's bodies, NOT EVER...

 

Sorry, that is really selfish, IMO. I didn't get any stretch marks, and I don't think many women get them like the picture shown.

 

Just because you didn't doesn't mean other women don't.

"Selfish" has nothing to do with the right to have an abortion.

ALL humans are selfish in some way...should we make it against the law? Heck, it's not even a bad thing....being selfish simply means doing what you want to do....nothing wrong with that...

 

What do you mean, marriage? Is that another thing you want to force up on a woman . . . or a teen? That if they get pregnant, they have to marry the person they got impregnated by?

I think a good comprehensive sex education does include abstinence but that most of us KNOW that high school aged teens are more than likely going to to at least experiment with sex. Hence the need to discuss ALL aspects of birth control.

It would be interesting to do a poll to see how many of you pro life people were virgins until you married and that all of your pregnancies were planned . . .

 

I disagree entirely. I think there are selfish reasons. Like I told you before, I am NOT "pro" abortion unlike some of you. I wish that there were less abortions being performed in our country. I don't think abortion is a "good thing." I just wouldn't impose my morality on another person. That doesn't change my opinion of such people though. I think some of those reasons are absolutely disgusting.