37 Straight Gallup Polls—Majority: Abortion Should Be Illegal>>MOD WARNING<<

Person is a legal term. Nothing to do with me.

It becomes legally acceptable, because the woman is a person with rights.

Whether it's morally acceptable is up to the person concerned to decide.

 

For the scientific/fact challenged, the difference between unborn and born, location is NOT the only difference:



Changes in the newborn at birth





Changes in the newborn at birth refer to the changes an infant's body undergoes to adapt to life outside the womb.











LUNGS, HEART, AND BLOOD VESSELS

The mother's placenta helps the baby "breathe" while it is growing in the womb. Oxygen and carbon dioxide flow through the blood in the placenta. Most of it goes to the heart and flows through the baby's body.

At birth, the baby's lungs are filled with amniotic fluid. They are not inflated. The baby takes the first breath within about 10 seconds after delivery. This breath sounds like a gasp, as the newborn's central nervous system reacts to the sudden change in temperature and environment.

Once the baby takes the first breath, a number of changes occur in the infant's lungs and circulatory system:
&#8226;Increased oxygen in the lungs causes a decrease in blood flow resistance to the lungs.
&#8226;Blood flow resistance of the baby's blood vessels also increases.
&#8226;Amniotic fluid drains or is absorbed from the respiratory system.
&#8226;The lungs inflate and begin working on their own, moving oxygen into the bloodstream and removing carbon dioxide by breathing out (exhalation).

BODY TEMPERATURE

A developing baby produces about twice as much heat as an adult. A small amount of heat is removed through the developing baby's skin, the amniotic fluid, and the uterine wall.

After delivery, the newborn begins to lose heat. Receptors on the baby's skin send messages to the brain that the baby's body is cold. The baby's body creates heat by burning stores of brown fat, a type of fat found only in fetuses and newborns. Newborns are rarely seen to shiver.

LIVER

In the baby, the liver acts as a storage site for sugar (glycogen) and iron. When the baby is born, the liver has various functions:
&#8226;It produces substances that help the blood to clot.
&#8226;It begins breaking down waste products such as excess red blood cells.
&#8226;It produces a protein that helps break down bilirubin. If the baby's body does not properly break down bilirubin, it can lead to newborn jaundice.

GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT

A baby's gastrointestinal system doesn't fully function until after birth.

In late pregnancy, the baby produces a tarry green or black waste substance called meconium. Meconium is the medical term for the newborn infant's first stools. Meconium is composed of amniotic fluid, mucus, lanugo (the fine hair that covers the baby's body), bile, and cells that have been shed from the skin and intestinal tract. In some cases, the baby passes stools (meconium) while still inside the uterus.

URINARY SYSTEM

The developing baby's kidneys begin producing urine by 9 - 12 weeks into the pregnancy. After birth, the newborn will usually urinate within the first 24 hours of life. The kidneys become able to maintain the body's fluid and electrolyte balance.

The rate at which blood filters through the kidneys (glomerular filtration rate) increases sharply after birth and in the first 2 weeks of life. Still, it takes some time for the kidneys to get up to speed. Newborns have less ability to remove excess salt (sodium) or to concentrate or dilute the urine compared to adults. This ability improves over time.

IMMUNE SYSTEM

The immune system begins to develop in the baby, and continues to mature through the child's first few years of life. The womb is a relatively sterile environment. But as soon as the baby is born, he or she is exposed to a variety of bacteria and other potential disease-causing substances. Although newborn infants are more vulnerable to infection, their immune system can respond to infectious organisms.

Newborns do carry some antibodies from their mother, which provide protection against infection. Breastfeeding also helps improve a newborn's immunity.

SKIN

Newborn skin will vary depending on the length of the pregnancy. Premature infants have thin, transparent skin. The skin of a full-term infant is thicker.

 

You DO realize you just undercut PatriotNews' whole premise?

 

Not really because I was just arguing viability, not personhood.

 

What I find really strange is that PN went to town when he was questioned on his "life begins at conception" quip, basically stating that because this is an abortion forum we should all know he was talking about when a human life begins, yet when it suits his purpose he can take the definition of viable outside of the realms of abortion. By his own logic roflol: ) the word viable in the concept of abortion should only refer to the stage at which a fetus can survive outside of the womb.

Some strange twisted "logic" going on there.

 

I fail to see any fault in either logic or the use of the word "viable". The word viable can be used in many ways and is not exclusive to the subject of abortion. When used in the context of abortion, it does not exclusively need be applied in reference to the viability of a fetus outside of the womb. A fetus can be viable inside the womb which has not reach 24 weeks of development. I agree with @driddler with regard to a fetus being viable outside the womb at approximately 24 weeks. But that is not to say an 18 week fetus is not viable, it is just not viable outside of the womb. So, when I say it is okay to abort if the fetus is not viable, that means that it is either dead or has some medical condition which is prohibitive of it's survival to term. At all stages of development, a human from the point of conception to birth is viable unless they are deceased or otherwise physically incapable of living due to a deformity or other ailment.

If viability only applied to a fetus outside of the womb in terms of abortion, then there would be no need to qualify "viable" with the words "outside the womb".

 

That doesn't make sense. Foetal viability pertains to when a foetus can survive if born. 18 week old foetuses are not viable.

 

Neither is your "life begins at conception" exclusive to the abortion debate, and yet you insisted when questioned that we should all know what you mean, viable in the context of abortion simply means " (Of a fetus or unborn child) able to live after birth" and as such the same assertion your made of knowing what you mean applies to you when viable or viability is used in an abortion debate.

You should know that when viable or viability is used in an abortion debate it means " (Of a fetus or unborn child) able to live after birth", to argue otherwise puts you in the hypocrite stance when related to your previous assertions of "life begins at conception" and others knowing what you mean.

 

When I say "life begins at conception" in an abortion forum it means human life. Any idiot can figure that out.

Let me once again post the definition of viability for those of you who are having trouble with the meaning of the word:

 

and when someone says viable or viability in an abortion forum it means able to live after birth.

MOD EDIT

Amazing how you cherry pick the definition to suit your agenda, why don't you post the FULL definition where is states " (Of a fetus or unborn child) able to live after birth:" . .which of course is far more relevant to an abortion forum and debate than the ones you decide on.

 

I posted the definition from Google as it appeared in it's entirety on my computer screen.

Viable means viable. In an abortion forum it means the same thing as it does outside of an abortion forum. Viability means the same thing inside the womb and outside of the womb. I fail to see why pro-choice advocates feel the need to try to win arguments based on the parsing of language other than they recognize they are on the losing end of an argument philosophically and morally.

MOD EDIT

 

Back to the original point....the use of Gallup in the OP...

The most recent Gallup shows that a MAJORITY of Americans call themselves pro-choice. Ergo the OP's premise is false or misleading...and the poster knows it.

But regardless, it's enough that reality is not on his side....nor ever will be.

 

Viable

adjective
1Capable of working successfully; feasible: the proposed investment was economically viable
More example sentences

1.1 Botany (Of a seed or spore) able to germinate: most clones can produce thousands of viable seeds

1.2 Biology (Of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions: the largest and most viable population of this endangered vetch little of the frozen semen has been viable when thawed

1.3 Medicine (Of a fetus or unborn child) able to live after birth: what if the fetus were viable?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/viable
------------------------------------

Viable

adjective
1. capable of living.
2. Physiology.

a) physically fitted to live.
b) (of a fetus) having reached such a stage of development as to be capable of living, under normal conditions, outside the uterus.

3. Botany. able to live and grow.

4.vivid; real; stimulating, as to the intellect, imagination, or senses:
a period of history that few teachers can make viable for students.

5. practicable; workable: a viable alternative.

6. having the ability to grow, expand, develop, etc.:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/viable
----------------------------------------------------

1. Capable of success or continuing effectiveness; practicable: a viable plan; a viable national economy. See Synonyms at possible.
2.
a. Capable of living, developing, or germinating under favorable conditions: viable spores.
b. Capable of living outside the uterus. Used of a fetus or newborn.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/viable

------------------------------------------------------

Full Definition of VIABLE
1: capable of living; especially : having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb <a viable fetus>
2: capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>
3a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives>
b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state>
c (1) : having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2) : financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/viable

 

I think it's all a matter of "who cares." Any woman who wants an abortion is ALWAYS going to be able to get one, but only a small percentage of the poorest women will ever spend time in prison. And, it isn't a matter of pro-life women never getting abortions, either.

 

Viable

adjective
1Capable of working successfully; feasible: the proposed investment was economically viable
More example sentences

1.1 Botany (Of a seed or spore) able to germinate: most clones can produce thousands of viable seeds

1.2 Biology (Of a plant, animal, or cell) capable of surviving or living successfully, especially under particular environmental conditions: the largest and most viable population of this endangered vetch little of the frozen semen has been viable when thawed

1.3 Medicine (Of a fetus or unborn child) able to live after birth: what if the fetus were viable?

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/viable
------------------------------------

Viable

adjective
1. capable of living.
2. Physiology.

a) physically fitted to live.
b) (of a fetus) having reached such a stage of development as to be capable of living, under normal conditions, outside the uterus.

3. Botany. able to live and grow.

4.vivid; real; stimulating, as to the intellect, imagination, or senses:
a period of history that few teachers can make viable for students.

5. practicable; workable: a viable alternative.

6. having the ability to grow, expand, develop, etc.:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/viable
----------------------------------------------------

1. Capable of success or continuing effectiveness; practicable: a viable plan; a viable national economy. See Synonyms at possible.
2.
a. Capable of living, developing, or germinating under favorable conditions: viable spores.
b. Capable of living outside the uterus. Used of a fetus or newborn.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/viable

------------------------------------------------------

Full Definition of VIABLE
1: capable of living; especially : having attained such form and development as to be normally capable of surviving outside the mother's womb <a viable fetus>
2: capable of growing or developing <viable seeds> <viable eggs>
3a : capable of working, functioning, or developing adequately <viable alternatives>
b : capable of existence and development as an independent unit <the colony is now a viable state>
c (1) : having a reasonable chance of succeeding <a viable candidate> (2) : financially sustainable <a viable enterprise>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/viable

 

Again, those definitions are not relevant in an abortion debate, as it should be known that when viable is used in a abortion debate it is about the fetus and as such the definition is able to survive AFTER birth .. just as you asserted that people should know what you meant when you stated "life begins at conception" . .which was ample shown to be false.

 

But even an 8 week old or a 20 week old fetus is viable and can survive after birth provided it is allowed to develop unmolested to full term.

You see, the word does apply to a fetus in the womb regardless of the stage of development.

If you want to talk about viability outside the womb, then you will often see the phrase "outside the womb" attached to the word "viable".

 

Except of course the definition of viable pertaining to abortion says nothing about being "allowed to develop unmolested to full term." ergo viable in the context of abortion debates means after birth.

nope it does not.

Perhaps you should remember that when you make the assertion that life begins at conception and amend it to "human life starts at conception"

 

Not even that.

A Serm and Egg Cell is Human Life...but not a Human Being.

Life exists prior to Conception.

But a Human Being does not exist until a Birthed Fetus now a Child has grown within it all the other Species necessary for a Human Being to LIVE as if a Person was just comprised of Human Cells and nothing else....that person would be dead within hours.

Again.....DEFINITION OF A HUMAN BEING.

A HUMAN BEING.....is a MULTICELLULAR....MULTISPECIES....BIOMECHANICAL CONSTRUCT.

A Human Being is not just one species of life....it is many.

AboveAlpha

 

Yes I understand that, but for the purpose of this discussion it is far better to say "human life begins at conception" than the general term of "life begins at conception", which as we all know is factually incorrect.