A deal between Iran and China shows that 'getting tough' doesn't solve the US's problems

The Obama deal meant that long term Iran could build an atomic weapon. It was a flawed deal.
And you didn't mention North Korea.
Read about the scale of China and North Korea's illegal fishing? It shows what these nations
think of international rules.
Taiwan and Japan should be allowed to become nuclear powers because China and Russia
have allowed North Korea to be one.

 

What does "illegal fishing" have to due with your completely failed claim - that China is in favor of nuclear proliferation.

What is obscene - is that you talk like USA/France - Do happen to be the one's responsible for nuclear proliferation.

So when at a table with Iraq - with the doors shut - cameras off - and "US representative" wants to bellywhoo about "nuclear proliferation"

He is politely told to F- off - sit the fk down - and shut up - and let the adults in the room handle this for a change - because it was "US/France" that created this mess - and all the other messes around the world - Israel included and let us not forget the US Pet - Pakistan

Swat u tink mon - what US rep gonna say .. eeeerrrr .. .ummmmm dophhhhh. Not even having France to back him up because France is part of the team that initiated and was party to the deal .. as was Britain and Germany ... also sitting in opposition.

So you are also saying that the England, Germany, France (the EU by proxy) are in favor of nuclear proliferation along with their buddy China - and Russia.... Yup - the whole world that matters against us -

Good strategy for a winning plan that one was -- then doofus forces every other nation in the world to be in opposition to us with his Unilateral Iran sanctions - usurping the sovereignty of every nation at once .. smooth move exlax ...

How did that turn out ? not only is Iran Closer to nukes - our economic hegemony is being threatened like never before - so at a time when we need our allies and others most - w/r to economic cooperation - we fk with their economic sovereignty.

We are getting spanked on the geopolitical chessboard for this blunder. Not a highlight of the Trump Tenure.

 

Japan does not want nukes they even object everytime we ask to store them there.

 

The issue with the illegal fishing demonstrates China's attitude toward international norms, and the environment.
The same attitude can be seen in China's espionage, intellectual property, currency manipulation and lack of support
for nuclear non-proliferation.
Proliferation means proliferate, spread, multiply, breed, grow etc.. It's not about disarmament but the spread of these
weapons to every nation. Without Chinese support, and illegal Russian trade, North Korea would be force to dismantle
its nuclear program. As it is we have seen North Korea try to establish a nuclear plant in Syria - so nukes are going to be
commodities, like rice, beans and oil. Every nation will have nukes.
Fortunately the West stopped Syria and Iraq getting the bomb.
As soon as Iran goes nuclear then overnight Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey go nuclear. It's game over for non-proliferation.

 

Sure, but times are changing, and fast. Japan is facing an increasingly assertive China
so it is changing its constitution.

 

Please stop the fallacious gibberish - "Non Sequitur" It does not follow - that because China has violated international fishing law - it is in favor of nuclear proliferation .. abject nonsense - same with your intellectual property silliness - Stuff that we try to steal on a regular basis as well ... just abject nonsense for an argument.

The west did not stop Syria and Iraq from getting the Bomb - because neither got close - and if it did aid in this effect - GOOD that they Cleaned up the MESS THEY MADE- a mess with Pakistan - a Mess with Israel - a Mess with North Korea -

China/Russia did not do this - we did - the genie is already out of the bottle - and you are crying "Please Please" lets put it back in - but you were the one that opened pandora's box ... legs spread wide open

What is the difference between Pakistan having the bomb and Iran ? other than one more country .. which is always bad - other than that - which nation is more "Radical" - more apt to push the trigger on the basis of "Allah"

A) Pakistan

B) Iran

 

No, not non sequitur, I DEMONSTRATED CHINESE ATTITUDES TOWARD INTERNATIONAL NORMS.
You see this everywhere, BTW, even in our Australian universities, in the news today - Chinese students
ganging up on professors to ensure they get passing grades. It's about arrogance.
Yes, without some targeted bombing by Israel, both Iraq and Syria would have become nuclear powers.
Intellectual property - I was advised against a patent because, quote, "The Chinese just steal this stuff anyhow."
The difference between Pakistan and Iran having the bomb is two fold:
1 - Iran wants regional power and is widely feared and hated by Sunni nations.
2 - Iran demonstrates that nuclear non-proliferation treaties can by bypassed, even exploited.

 

Of course its a non sequitur. Showing that China has violated an international norm with respect to fishing - has exactly ZERO to do with violating international norms with respect to Nuclear weapons - You should have been able to figure this out from the last post.

1) Pakistan wants regional power - along with every other nation
2)- exactly what Pakistan did.

BUT - neither addresses the question of who is more likely to use the Bomb .. a complete fail on your part.

 

China violated international norms with
current control
espionage
political interference
control over overseas citizens
fishing
arms controls
law of the sea
treaty with Hong Kong
arms embargoes
control over Tibet
threats to Bhutan, India, Vietnam, Phillipines, Taiwan, Japan and Malaysia.
ivory and animal imports
etc
etc
and that's without Googling the topic....

oh, and non-support for nuclear non-proliferation

 

~ I remember Trump talking about Japan possibly being nuclear armed in the future. Interesting possibilities with Taiwan in the mix .

 

I'm from Germany, m wife is from Poland and I could easy get any time a French citizenship if I want.

You tell it ... these red MAGA caps cheer Trump for every BS he does without using the brain ... if there is any brain left at all at people wearing this ugly cap ... and won't see the realities if they are danger for their faith in their god Trump!
I am certainly one of the critics of the globalized world ... incidentally, once praised by "capitalism is the best righties" as the holy cow, but today they don't want to know anything about it anymore. But what Trump and his fans are doing here is the idiotic attempt to turn the wheel of history back instead of fixing mistakes that have happened.
In addition, trump like a berserk, regardless of coletheral damage, beats everything and everyone that doesn't worship him ... and spreads a perpetual fire / drum fire of lies, fake news and half truths.

Another example of the hypocrisy of Trump and the ignorance of his followers ...
You have probably also noticed how Trump shot on my "evil" country Germany because it does not invest 2% of the GDP in the defense and that is why he draws out 12,000 of the approximately 35,000 US soldiers from Germany.
First of all: For reasons of state reason, the whole thing is officially regretted, of course, etc., but in reality Germany just shrugs with a "so what?"!

Trump lie # 01:
The US soldiers are supposed to be there in our defense. Lies, apart from the 2nd Armored Cavalry Regiment, there is next to no other fighting force, but ground staff in Ramstein Air Base, in the huge Landstuhl Hospital and other staff, logistics etc. and the bases are not for NATO, but for pure, worldwide US interests. A weakening of the bases is an own goal for the USA and we laugh at Trump for his stupidity!

Trump lie # 02:
Trump continues to claim that this "evil" German behavior costs US taxpayers money. As stated above, the question arises how this should work if the US troops are not with us for our defense but nearly only for own US interests! Apart from that, Germany can open a violent counter-calculation of how much US troops cost our German taxpayers ... or who, for example, pays the huge electricity bill from Ramstein AB again for the most part, eh?
And who provides the huge plots of land for the whole US bases again for free ... and who was allowed to remedy the gigantic environmental damage at his expense after the huge withdrawal after the Cold War ... in many Ex US bases it was almost worth to Drill for oil in the area of the ex fuel warehouses or extract oil from the ground as with oil shale done!

Trump lie # 03:
Again and again Trump asked Germany to meet this 2% of GDP. He deliberately concealed the fact that it was not until 2014 that the NATO council in Wales / UK decided such a duty for the first time in NATO history ... and above all ... that it will only be mandatory from 2024 on! Do we have 2024 anyway?
And it is funny, however, that due to the falling GDP because Corona also with us, the current share of 1.5% may become 2% without a Cent more being invested in the defense budget. Mathematics is at percentage calculation ... ehm ... sometimes strange, isn't it?

Only in the wake of the first threat of withdrawal a few weeks ago, did Trump claim for the first time that Germany is said to be unwilling to invest this 2% even after 2024 .... funny, why should we do it before 2024 and why does he never told all the years before the isue with dutxy to do from 2024 on, eh?
It is correct that above all the political has a problem with the 2% with us ... but again Trump does mention only half of the facts and hides the uncomfortable rest, because it was justified by the lefties with the as yet unforeseeable consequences because of Corona, means other things are more important viewed for government tax money spending by them, which is understandable.

This more intense excursion into another example shows the total mendacity of Donald Trump in general ... and since his fans cheer and agree with him because of his shots at Germany, it also shows the stupidity of these people, or their ignorance and inability to deal with the real facts if these things prove how fraudulent Trump is!

 

Why are you posting this gibberish - China's violation of the laws of the sea with respect to fishing - has nothing to do with Nuclear Proliferation.

Your claim is preposterous nonsense.

Then you turn around and ignore the demonstrable fact that US/France are the one's responsible for nuclear proliferation - not China/Russia.

 

thats ridiculously things i heard, please use your brain. NK have nuke its actually against china/russia interest, cause you never know when NK gonna use nuke on SK, the retaliation from US 2nd nuke strike will put north china and part of russia into radio active zone for thousands years.
also taiwan/japan dont want nuke, it create instability, and they will get a big bulls eye on their back. and if we provide nuke to taiwan, china/russia can provide nuke to cuba/iran/venezuela and other anti-west nation, then soon we will be in nuclear war.

 

~ Germany has about the strongest economy in EU and can well afford to pay the agreed amount to NATO. They - like many countries - take advantage of the USA's weak leadership. Trump simply called them out and put them on the spot. No hypocrisy. Just facts. Take the U.S. for granted with this president and you will be likely do without American support.

 

the difference is german doesn't see russia or china as big threat than how US see them. we have global security concern, while german dont have that strategic vision, hence we spend more on security globally. Its the price to pay if we want to have solid global influence. alienated our allies in EU will leave gap in our geostrategic influence, they can either be more independent, and shift toward more china/russia friendly bloc, and thats not something we want to see. influence/security doesn't come free.

 

~ Very good point. I think the time has come for certain nations to make decisions on where they want to be. If they side with China so be it. NATO is more to the advantage of countries like Germany than USA - influence or not.

 

And why shall we do please?
You don't defense us with your troops in my country and so what advantage and support do they give us please? Nothing and this is the fact!
The duty to do is only from 2024 on and not NOW ... and only because this idiot Trump demands it is no reason to do it for years earlier as the duty is!
AGAIN ... IT IS AGREED TO TO PAY IT FROM 2024 ON AND NOT NOW!!! GET IT IN YOUR HEAD!!!

And the weak leadership the US curently has ... because governed by an idiot makes any country weak .. is your own fault and not our guilt! And this is totally hypcrisy which Trump and his suportes make here, because telling not the truth is evil ... but to accuse others for being bad and to reason this with lies is even more worse!

And abvoe all ... that you have the biggest military budget in the world which is in sum more as the next 7 countries spend together ... in which are most of your opponents in the world like China and Russia ... says all about the BS which wents in your country wrong! You have such a huge budget becuase you want to have to say something in every square inch of this planet and this is expensive. And because this is expensive and will hurt your NATO duties, you want retreat from your duties you have by your own once declared and let do and pay others for it. This is the real background of it!

And another fact in the end: After the USA, Germany has the second biggest defense budget in EUR / USD or whatever currency in NATO still since decades!
if we raise to 2%, we become number 3 of biggest military budgets in the world and if we do, we still know what tehn will come: The usual Germany hating jerks and idiots will open the Nazi folder and start to compare with the up arming during Hitler before WW-2! Sorry, foregt it!

But as told ... because the GDP income is going down as everywhere, the currently spend 50 billion Euro / year will maybe become automatically 2% of our GDP ... and then issue is solved and no Donald Covidiot Trump can blame us anymore with his lies!

 

~ Your anger is misdirected. But perhaps you prefer the likes of China ? That is your choice .

 

CORRECT ... and very well written!

We have no global interests like this, nor do we have special security interests like the United States. We don't have a Navy that massively cruises in any of the waters on this planet ... we don't have military bases around the world almost everywhere.
Or more specifically: Certainly bad when Mad Midget Kim plays around in North Korea with his oversized missiles and also builds nuclear weapons ... but that doesn't constrain us like the USA because we are not allied with Japan and South Korea.

And as you wrote it very nicely, we don't see Russia and China as the new "Empire of the Evil" like Trump and the righties in the US do. Sure, not good what's happening in Ukraine, annexing Crimea or Russia's deployment to Syria ... but we're realistic enough and judge it right! Almost only Russians live in Eastern Ukraine and they don't want to become "western" like Western Ukraine ... In the Crimea there are 85% Russians and that Crimea became Ukraine and not directly to Russia came after the end of the USSR as it would be correct, the United States is partly to blame for too. And Syria has always been a close friend of Russia and that Assad is a bastard is irrelevant because the US supports other equally bad bastards!

And above all ... who started the new "cold war" with Russia ... started without any reason because Russia didn't do anything evil at that time, nothing at all?
It was the USA because they put the anti-missile shield in front of the Russians in Poland and Romania and at the time justified the whole thing with the gigantic lie that it was not against Russia, but against the evil Iranian and North Korean missiles ... even if they had no missiles with such a range at the time! And it is also the hypocritical USA, which claims that nothing and nobody like Russia or China moves in their geostrategic sphere of influence (e.g. Caribbean and Central America) without their permission ... but conversely completely ignore the spheres of influence of Russia as Ukraine or Georgia! This is hypocritical and abnormal as behavior!

And finally ... Iran! Who ended the good and meaningful deal - the Iran deal - which really prevented that Iran develops own nuclear weapons and th justified this ending with pure lies? The USA!

 

Really? And why shall we do? Not that I don't confim that China did and does somehow evil ... even the US did and does same way too, but this ignored by many Americans of course ... who started this BS behavior towards China AND made his decades old European friends and allies with same breath also to an enemy, eh?
Trump made punitative tarrifs on steel against evil China dumping pricing etc. ... OK, but in same step also against the complete rest of the world too ... all Europeans, Japan and South Korea got the the same punitative tarrifs as China! So why shall we follow you on your crusade against China again please?

P.S. / Edit:

And because Trump made the US to a not trustworthy partner with his behavior, an alternative to the USA is maybe necessary or becomes more and more necessary, eh?

 

North Korea could not have gone nuclear without China. And Russia violated the
embargo on North Korea.
China and Russia both bully their neighbors - for China IN ONE WEEK it was Bhutan,
India, Taiwan, Hong Kong, Taiwan and the Philippines. For Russia its the ongoing
Russian "volunteers" in Ukraine, and its endless threats against the Baltic states.
So if Russia and China won't come to the party on North Korea then simply arm the
nation they are busy bullying. Hopefully the bullying might stop.

 

Oh, I get it, it's USA and France that has been helping Iran and North Korea get the bomb.
I know the Israelis took out France's nuclear reactor in Baghdad - but privately that was a
relief to the French. But you had better fill us in on the duplicity of France/USA in this case.

 

Clearly you don't get it.

Iran, North Korea and Iraq got the nuclear technology from the fellow who taught Pakistan how to build the bomb - a Pakistani National who had access to the nuclear secrets in France.

Pakistan was a client state of the US at the time - and they did little to stop Pakistan from building the bomb.

Your claim was that it was "China" who was responsible for nuclear proliferation - which is nonsense given it was the US/France who were responsible for nuclear proliferation to NK, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Israel, South Africa,

Not sure why you bring up Israel -as they are not part of the conversation with respect to being responsible for nuclear proliferation - other than to try and deflect from the reality that your claim is nonsense.

 

the world is laughing at Trump, they can't believe America was so stupid

 

cheap stuff, cheap oil, cheap labor

course once we stuck our hand in Pandora's Box, we learned how painful it will be to remove it

the American workers lost their jobs to cheap overseas labor....

the Government failed to manage foreign outsourcing and foreign imports properly

Corporatism is destroying Capitalism