Boat People

Gwendoline made valid points, you brought nothing but personal attacks. It's very ironic, that you think, she should learn something, when you could learn a lot from her, if it wasn't about your own closed mind.

 

I already said, how this was meant. If I say it 200 more times, will you get it then?

And you have a real idea? How comes?

... of which I do not hope there will be ...

We don't have extremely bad or annoying ads here. It's an English thing, I guess. Extremely bad or annoying ads don't work in Germany. Benetton noticed years ago. Greenpeace and some animal protection organizations target people, who are strange, so they don't count.

 

My mind is not closed, or perhaps you total missed what I have said.

First...I am not the one who claims that Maggie44 is bigoted, is it? As stated to you, I will wait to hear more until I decide.

Second...you obviously are oblivious to my previous comments on this matter and my very attack on Mak, for her support of the evil trade, of people smuggling. Yes my mind is closed on that subject.

Third... it is Gwen that defended these scum of the human race, who only exists as parasites on misery, with no consideration for the bodies they leave in their wake.

I am not the one, who hates asylum seekers, but I sure as hell am not prepared to support the parasites on human misery just to score political points with asylum seekers as the Australian government wishes to and Gwen is quite happy to.

Perhaps you need to examine closer our back and forth and consider that as well before you jump to those conclusions.

But alas, I see you are only attempting to invoke response that pleases you.

 

Sorry, did you misinterpreted my comment? I thought the thing in parenthesis would have given some understanding, that I know you do not believe it. But take it as you wish.

...Experience...

Fair enough...

Perhaps Germans are more easily annoyed so they do not have to be extremely annoying, I have not been there yet so can only go off what you tell me. But it is a major thing in many countries.

 

You can't decide about Maggie after five posts, but you can decide about Gwendoline after one post? How comes?

It is obviously to me, that I obviously don't know, what previous comments you are inderring to. Where did Mak say something about evil trade of people smuggling?

You try to imitate Nazi language here?

I think, you have to hate asylum seekers to join Maggies party.

Does it mean, you brought arguments at one time instead of personal attacks and Nazi-style language?

 

So you only brought this up to distract from the original question?

Women in Australia don't have experiences?

Maybe they focus too much on bad language to get attention.

 

No, you continue to attempt to say I am categorising the women that I am talking about to be white and Christian. You asked and I answered. Ironic as it is, I too categorise them as well. Those who are held in high esteem to those that are considered only slightly above the animal kingdom.

How do you get this? You asked me how I know. The women who are so critical of this, obviously do not. That, mind you, is not to say all women do not.

Could be, however, I am sure you get the general idea that it is more of an instinct to remember the bad things so you do not repeat the same thing again.

 

I still don't get, why you have more experience about these things than women who are held in high esteem ...

Nah, past often looks nice, because people remember the good things and forget the bad things.

 

Ah...I see where you are getting me wrong. It is not all women who do not have any experience with this. Many have said it before and many will say it again,
'You could walk a thousand miles in my shoes but you would still not know the hardship I have lived'

The people I critique over this, are the inexperienced who compared to some, come from and live a life like a queen, who are very much prepared to tell all, that we should all live as they do. They have no idea that in a few countries, to talk as they do here, would be a guarantee of a death sentence, simply because they are women. Things you do not hear in papers or on the net. Could you imagine, living in a country, that if your husband wished to leave you, it was a death sentence? And that this was common practice? Oh everyone condemns these nations but when something is finally done they condemn those who would free them from such predicaments.

Take Afghanistan, do you understand how badly women where treated there? I am sure Mak and Gwen might tell you they do. However, they only know the stories and those, are actually only the tip of the iceberg. These, are the people I talk about not knowing anything about what they claim, and it is not through ignorance or lack of knowledge. It is though not being able to see and experience the situation to which they claim they know about.

Past what? As an analogy you need to understand the subtlety of what I point towards. However, it has become a little tiresome. Let me put it this way, when you where a baby, what made you remember that a match burns. Was it because you watched someone light a heater with a match? Or was it because you burnt yourself with a match?

 

You are not a woman, all you can do is try to walk in high heels. What experience do you have, which the women you mentioned have not?

Which country would this be?

No, and I don't think, such a country exists.

Everyone condemns which nation?

You have been in Afghanistan?

People don't watch ads anymore, because some of them are bad?

 

No, I am not. I can only relate what I have experienced.

Look over to the ME, just for starters

you could start in Turkey,

Do you not understand the psychy of what I was pointing to? or are you just trying to be obtuse?

 

Turkey probably has more women in management positions compared to their number of inhabitants than most Western countries. Women go to university and they go to vote there ...

This doesn't answer the question.

 

I like idea of deducting one million from the aid given to the Indonesian Government for every person making it to our shore via Indonesia (that would make them more serious about tackling the corruption that enables hundreds of boats to leave Indonesia 'undetected') but that would never happen in reality.

The best solution to deter people who are 'country shopping' however, is simply to have a register of all 'safe countries' and delegate refugees to these countries randomly (regardless of the country they arrived at) according to the number of refugees that country is able to support. If the refugee chooses not to accept asylum there then he/she forfeits the right to seek asylum anywhere else for the next 5 years. Also, if the authorities determine them to be a refugee (and they accept the invitation to stay in their host country) they should be on probation for at least 5 years. If they fail to make significant effort during that time, or get caught engaging in any criminal activity whatsoever, they should be deported.

Asylum seekers who do choose to come by boat (and make it through to our shores undetected) should live in the community and pay their own way while their status is being verified (they can afford to pay this if they can afford to pay people smugglers). If they do not have the money and are found to be genuine refugees then expenses incurred by the government should be payed back HECS style. In addition extra money should be paid for the administration and processing expenses as well as the privilige of by-passing the usual method of arrival and having their applications fast-tracked. If they are found not to be refugees, then too bad -- they forfeit any right to be compensated (as they were simply just supporting themselves like they should've been in the first place).

There should be absolutely no legal right to sue the government in any shape or form. If some-one is badly treated then the perpetrator is punished accordingly. There is simply no reason why refugees should have any right to sue for anything -- ever! They have chosen to come here and accept our hospitality, so they shouldn't complain if they don't like it. The treatment here is 100% better than what they would have got at home (that is why they are running away from there presumably). No amount of arguing will convince me that psychological damage obtained in our detention centers is worthy of million dollar pay-outs. Surely it can't be half as bad as what they experienced before arriving here (and if it's not then why did they come?). They know if they choose to come by boat then they must stay in detention until their status is verified. If they don't then they either didn't do their research or they are stupid and think the rules should/could be changed for them. They honestly must take us for fools (because obviously we are).

Last but not least, any-one rioting and destroying property in detention while having their claims assessed should automatically be deported. We shouldn't have to deal with that sort of ungrateful attitude when people are trying hard to help them. Imagine what they could be capable of if they don't get their own way once they are let loose in the community. PS. Don't anyone try and make this a race thing. I don't care what colour some-one is -- black, white, yellow, pink or purple! If you want to live here, respect our way of life and don't try and change it to yours!

 

Yeah, Jesus was a refugee, but he didn't receive welfare payments. In fact, Egypt didn't provide any benefits to out-siders at all. A refugee in Egypt was not allowed to live with Egyptian citizens and was kept seperate. They did not enjoy any of the rights the Egyptians did. So it's a bit different, isn't it? I don't think any-one can compare Australia's reluctance to accept economic refugees with Jesus' refuge in Egypt. Maybe the Egyptians would not have been so accomodating if they had to give up their hard earned taxes...

I'm not saying that I don't agree with Australia supporting refugees. I do (if they really are refugees, that is). But don't come here and then just sit on your backsides. Contribute something to this country!

 

Yeah, Jesus was a refugee, but he didn't receive welfare payments. In fact, Egypt didn't provide any benefits to out-siders at all. A refugee in Egypt was not allowed to live with Egyptian citizens and was kept seperate. They did not enjoy any of the rights the Egyptians did. So it's a bit different, isn't it? I don't think any-one can compare Australia's reluctance to accept economic refugees with Jesus' refuge in Egypt. Maybe the Egyptians would not have been so accomodating if they had to give up their hard earned taxes...

I'm not saying that I don't agree with Australia supporting refugees. I do (if they really are refugees, that is). But don't come here and then just sit on your backsides. Contribute something to this country!

 

I`ve never had an answer from people who support the people smuggling "trade", si I`ll ask the question again. How many refugees would you like to see coming to Australia? Is the figure in the billions?

 

The current number coming is fine by me.

 

Me too, but it won`t stay at the present volume if it isn`t managed, it has the potential to increase to millions. To have a policy, or opinion, you must have considered the future outcomes. What is an acceptable number for you, 2 million per anum, three million? Name a figure.

 

We will never get to having a million refugees coming to Australia, so there is no point in answering.

 

Why can there never be a million refugees coming to Australia?

 

Logic says it won't happen. There are plenty of other countries to choose from.

 

That`s very nice, but have you got any logic that you can support with facts?

 

I didn`t think so, the most obvious facts that need to be faced here are:

1. There have been more than enough deaths at sea already.
2. There are billions of poor souls who would give anything to come here, we can`t help them all, and the hard fact is, we can`t even make any noticable difference.
3. Charity begins at home, we need a planned immigration scheme taking compatability into account. We owe it to future generations.

 

What things would you like to see assessed for compatibility?

 

Apparently anyone, as long as they are white.