Do Not Give Conservatives Control of Our Economy

[video=youtube_share;N_mVoOVVykI]http://youtu.be/N_mVoOVVykI?t=3s[/video]

 

Hey steadypie

if you hate governance so much???!!!

What have you to say about this??????????????????????????

MUST SEE
[video=youtube_share;5hfEBupAeo4]http://youtu.be/5hfEBupAeo4?t=2s[/video]

 

Awesome video D&D, this video should be compulsory viewing so next time a politician is at a funeral of a digger that they sent to be killed, everyone will know that it wasn't for our well being but for those stinkin bankers that those diggers were killed.

 

Collusion between business and government is responsible for a lot of evil. Our fractional reserve banking system allows the RBA to effectively print money into the holdings of the banking system.

I agree that most war is fought over economic concerns rather than philanthropic. I would like to see an end to the initiation of war. This cannot be done while the state exists. Hell, we went into a war thousands of kilometers from our country when the "threat" was not a threat to our homeland at all. There's no conceivable chance of Iraq or Afghanistan attacking us, and if they wanted to get rid of the terrorist groups (which weren't targeting Australia anyway and were largely eliminated from Afghanistan within the first year of the war) they should have stopped them in the act instead of committing billions of dollars and many, many Australian lives to fight a war for a foreign power.

Without the public purse no private interest would be able to wage aggressive war, at least not without severe retribution by the public. If, hypothetically, ANZ was able to get together the billions of dollars needed to wage a war, and the public disapproval rating was at 60%+ like it is with the current government, then ANZ would simply go bankrupt. There is no such limitation on government because it operates through force and coercion. It takes the money regardless of the feelings of the individuals it steals from.

And it's not governance I hate, it's when people try to force themselves on me. I do not hold the government's puritan beliefs about substances, I am not initiating force against anyone else by using in my own home, so why should I be restricted from using them? The government has no consent from me to take my money: if I found it in my interests I would donate them money. By not giving them money I am not initiating force against anyone, it's my money that I earned through my own labor. Why should I be forced to give the government money to oppress me?

As I see it, the only relevant factor is choice. You have a right to yourself and the results of your labor and you should be able to choose whatever you want so long as it doesn't interfere with the right of other individuals to the same.

 

Without fractional reserve banking we'd all be peasants living in tiny hovels earning practically nothing.

 

I agree.

This is a fraudulant system devised and implemented by the bankers, with banks being able to produce money out of thin air and then loaning to us so we can pay interest on it.

Before deregulation this did not acure and we lived just fine, harder to get a bank loan ofcourse but that only meant having to wait a little longer.

I think you're wrong here the states where not created to war on other nations but to govern their people, without the state as you call it i can only fathom pictures of the wild west.

While your ideology sounds sincere people without the implemenatation of law will run amok.

I dont agree if our governments still owned their public assets like the commonwealth bank our telecommunications our utilities, our ports our public transport etc etc this would have provided a steady revenue in the billions of dollars meaning that our tax could be lower.

No since they have sold the shirts of their backs the only revenue available to them is taxation, while the billions of dollars in profit from the once owned public assets are being enjoyed by a hand full of the elite.

If you think the government has forced it self upon you, you should think again, why dont you find out who forced the government to impose income tax????.....in the first place.

The real oppressors are the bankers who work in the back ground and have all politicians in their back pockets.

Yes i agree and we have all been brainwashed into thinking this is the only choice we have.

There are better systems, if someone would stand up to the bankers.

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Its brainwashed people like you who make the bankers dream come true.

 

Cool

Partially agree, Reserve Banks are usually devised and implemented by governments looking to gain flexible credit. It's much easier to print money than it is to tax it. Obviously the banks are a crucial element of this, but they are not the only one.

Completely agree.

Not saying states were created to make war, but that's a large part of their function today. That and to force the beliefs of the majority onto everyone. Governing is inherently coercive.

There's no reason why government law is needed. Individuals would have an incentive to insure their property and those insurance companies would likely find it economically advantageous to employ private policing companies to patrol the streets, since this would significantly lower the amount of thefts. Alternatively, individuals could directly purchase a policing plan with a police company (who compete and thus lower prices in contrast to our current system of useless cops) and have the amount of security they desire: from a plan that provides for immediate assistance in case of assault/theft via telephone, or armed guards on your property.

This all sounds very far fetched largely because we live in a world where taxes are coerced out of us to pay for public police - so there's no incentive to start up private alternatives (except for large businesses and individuals). After all, nobody pays for something they can get for free, even if it is deficient.

I highly suggest you check out this lecture series. It's not long, but it's the best exposition of the concept I've come across. Really worth a listen.

In any case, I've never been robbed or assaulted before, but I have been taxed a significant part of my labor every year by the government and forced into their puritan methods of behavior all my life. The vast, vast majority of coercion comes from the government, not from the private sector. Crime is minuscule compared to the crime of the state.

That white collar crime which does exist near always uses the government.

Don't have a problem with "government" operating off private income streams like that as long as it doesn't pay for them with taxpayer money, which is always does. If the government turns to voluntary sources of revenue it becomes an organization like any other.

No since they have sold the shirts of their backs the only revenue available to them is taxation, while the billions of dollars in profit from the once owned public assets are being enjoyed by a hand full of the elite.

Alright, if you don't want to call it the government then fine, all I am against is coercion no matter where it comes from. Fact is each year the government signs off on a multi-billion dollar theft from the people.

Your argument is an argument against the government because this situation will always exist: there is no way to separate government from business because there is such a large moral hazard contain within - they have blank cheques and can destroy competition, thus business rationally wants to use it to their advantage. The solution is getting rid of the incentive by getting rid of the coercion.

I agree, although I am not interested in systems. All I want is to be free. I don't care about the health of the economy, I care about the initiation of force. If an individual freely accepts dire consequences that is not a bad thing: this is inherent in any free system and people who point out that on a cost-benefit analysis some government is desirable are missing the point because it's not about the wellbeing of all, it's about the freedom of all, and with freedom comes responsibility. I'd take a hundred bad trips over government forcing me to remain what is in their estimation "healthy". It's my body, it's my property, I'll do with it as I see fit.


Cool discussion bro, I like your views on the banking system

 

Fair enough, But I assure you if the Coalition was to attempt to introduce anything similar to Work choices again it would mean the destruction of any further election chances. They know this and I am sure they would not a repeat of the past. Also, the coalition are happy with the Labor policy and have stated such, with a few minor tweaks it would be acceptable. I suggest that the tweaks would be toward Union influences rather than policy changes. You must remember that individual contracts and enterprise agreements are an ALP policy, so for the Coalition to be granted the credit for such is naive at best.

Regulation needs to be of the least but effective sort. The problem with the competitiveness of Australia is the higher costs. The exchange rate has made it worse, but it was not so great beforehand. Most of this government grants (subsidies in reality) and business welfare paid to have business in the country exporting to the rest of the world. Australia's resources are of great quality and closer to the markets they are sold in. But the customer has already been paying quality prices for them. Eventually without better control over the costs, customers who are simply looking further abroad will be buying.

The problem is that while the complaints were levelled at the building site, much of the cost was at government level. If you factor in the cost of the advisors to individual projects, you would actually be astounded at the cost of one project. Also consider that much of the school halls projects went to projects that were not needed, and could have been better spent on what each school really lacked. Now the tax payer still has to pay for these things, but schools are at the mercy of the government if and when they get them.

A classic example of how government costs are wasted is National roads project. The federal government allocated an extra 700m to the Pacific highway in one budget to a project which would cost 700m. 350m of this money was paid to a government committee that recommended it would be far better off to pay the money to the rail. The remainder of these funds where paid to another committee to decide if that was the best decision. So nothing was done on the actual road it was allocated for, because committees formed by backbenchers where paid the money. 2 years later more money was allocated at a level of 750m and again nothing was done. Now 9 years later the section of road that continued to be promised money has finally been done, 1.4b later. A wasteful amount of money that was diverted to politicians and public servants pockets by both parties over the years for one section of road that had claimed many lives.

You may not like the media and consider it tainted, but if you take everything they say at face value, then you will be duped. The thing to do is listen to the media and sift through the crap to find the truth in the matters. It is not that they are paid to say what they want, it is the fact that they will go out of their way to sensationalise a matter to get you to watch them. Sure they have their own political persuasion, but it is not a case of being brought or sold.

You would be surprised at the amount of competition for resources there actually is. Canada holds much for the discerning customer and is apparently a major supplier of quality resources to the level that Australia can. Location only helps if you can offset the price of transportation with the added costs of product. With transport costs reducing on a global market, then it would also be important to make your product closer in price to your competitor.

 

D & D, as a student of history, there is a striking similarity between the above clip, and speeches made by a certain german political (thuggery) party during the 1930`s. I`ll watch the clip right through when time allows..This is not a rebuke of your post, world war one was a banker`s war, world war two, was largely a spin off from the first world war. This pattern has repeated itself for hundreds of years.

 

These focking bankers that have started and financed both sides of war after war need to be hung for the sake of humanity...period!
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1891: The British Labour Leader makes the following statement on the subject of the Rothschilds,

"This blood-sucking crew has been the cause of untold mischief and misery in Europe during the present century, and has piled up its prodigious wealth chiefly through fomenting wars between States which ought never to have quarrelled.

Whenever there is trouble in Europe, wherever rumours of war circulate and men’s minds are distraught with fear of change and calamity you may be sure that a hook-nosed Rothschild is at his games somewhere near the region of the disturbance."

Comments like this worry the Rothschilds and towards the end of the 1800’s they purchase Reuters news agency so they can have some control of the media.

http://www.iamthewitness.com/DarylBradfordSmith_Rothschild.htm

 

What a beautiful thread, thanks mate, overlooked completely...

The worst years under any government (to me) were the Howard years. We would have had everything on our hands, but didn't do anything for our future.
Look at renewables (where we trail behind), look at how we treat boat people, look at the real level of our school educations (comparing to other developed nations), look at GMC (no questions asked, whatever comes from that Northern American Continent, we take it and obey it), look at the climbing misuse of alcohol/drugs, look at how foreigners end up in racist filled attacks in AUS, look at the Iraq War and our disability, to say no to any war, look at how much right wing input/say the media has, and so on and so on....
Almost 11 years, and his legacy can be described as keeping average Aussies as stupid as possible, so they (Libs) can do as it pleases them.

Yes I also think Adolf Abbott's will win the next election, thanks to John Howard's disastrous heritage...

 

How many boat people died at sea, as a result of Howard`s boat people policy?

 

Why are they not rescued the same way participants of the Americas Cup are rescued, or a french sailor down the Southern Ocean?
Because of the bad seed, J.Howard implemented in us.....

 

Actually Australia is a world leader in the quality of education we receive.

 

Pity they couldn`t teach us to post in they right thread. lol - wink

 

Cats, for your own safety. Please stay inside the house. Don`t touch anything sharp, poisonous, or inflamable. Please stay away from roadways and railway tracks, unless accompanied by an adult.

 

Education was mentioned on this page of the thread.

 

PMSL.......

 

Hmmm,
Panzer, I don't agree.
We had both our kids in a Euro school during a Euro stint some years ago, and both struggled to get along, despite talking several lingos.
Back home, and both had a smile on their faces again, so relaxed was the standard and demand of our highschool here in the Southwest.
I am happy that they had this experience, and it showed me, that all those comparisons with others countries, where we always come up top, are worth jack(*)(*)(*)(*)...
Regards

 

You completely missed what I said, or is it deliberate?
Regards

 

I'm pretty sure the only country in Europe that beats Australia in educational scores is Finland. You have to remember that just because your kids didn't do so well doesn't mean other children are all the same.

 

Howard convinced Australia that the coalition were the economic managers and had the full support of the media with conveying this myth. He outright deceived the Australian people! Labor raised these issues about the economy and international factors many many times but simply weren't allowed to be heard by the media led by Murdoch. Beasley and Latham attempted to expose Howard on his claim that the libs were a party of low interest rates and tried to highlight that interest rates were 21% under howard himself as treasurer....inflation was through the roof. It wasn't reflected in mortgage rates because mortgage rates were capped at 13.5%. He hits a purple patch thanks to a substantial spike upwards in the world economy and gets away with telling people the coalition are the party with the best economic credentials. And as you and I know they did nothing in terms of Australia's future despite the greatest opportunity to do so. He outright lied to the Australian people and got away with it, thanks to the main stream media.

 

I completely got what you said. That was the problem.

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I completely got what you said. That was the problem.

 

Yeah, the Howard Govt`s excellent record of fiscal management was just a conspiricy Furthermore, Howard didn`t stop the boats either, Gina Rinehart just waited at the warf, and they all turned around and went back home. The only one it didn`t work for was Penny Wong, she dived overboard & swam through shark infested water to get to Gina. Penny`s not a misogynist.

 

Panzer,
if you want to know the truth, talk to late settlers with teenage kids from Central Europe, and you soon will discover, that we are behind many others.
It doesn't help to self proclaim we are the best - we aren't.....