Focus your anger.

I stand by my assessment: many of those who call themselves pro life have that sentiment only for the unborn. In my opinion, that's hypocritical. A person who truly values human life would place a much higher value on the lives of the more than 10k children killed in Gaza, history notwithstanding.

 

Israel has never been known for pulling punches. They tend to react with disproportionate force and it's routinely expected they will. Israel's willingness to tolerate violence has never been the issue. The issue has always been that both groups feel they have an absolute right to this land and have been unwilling to do what it takes to co-exist. Israel disregards the rights of Palestinians, settles their land, treats them as 2nd classed citizens, and Hamas disregards the rights of Israelis.

As far as "oh just destroy Hamas already." That's not so simple at all. Destroying an idea with violence is usually not very effective. It helps when you're willing to commit genocide or ethnic cleansing, but the world of today has more awareness of, and less tolerance of, such behavior, than in times past.

 

Ridiculous statement Had they not there wouldn't be a palestinian issue to be resolved now.

 

So again how many more children have to die over the next fifty to a hundred years before this is going to be resolved? Hint it will be a damn sight more than 10k.

 

It is very interesting that you think even more violence would have made things better, lol. But true, thinking Machiavellian, people should be treated generously or destroyed, and Israel has done neither. And if any nation could get away with ethnic cleansing, it's Israel. I just think it has always been possible to have a 2-state solution and live in peace. It has always been possible for Israel to be the good guys and survive. They choose not to be.

 

Nope just pointing out reality one you refuse to understand. Israel is the good guy here and if they are to survive and not be targeted by religious crazies then they will have to take down Hamas. The only other choice is surrendering to the non existent mercy of Hamas.

 

Hmm... Wasn't it Palestinians who attacked Israel first? Why ignore that part? So, it's not all palestinians either, it's the jihadists in Hamas. Should we be protesting Islamist jihadists who actually started all this?

 

No the alternative is to treat them as a criminal organization and otherwise go out of your way to avoid killing innocent civilians, as they would if the criminal organization were within their own cities. And maybe it's also time to acknowledge gaza isn't culturally compatible with being a part of their country anyway.

 

But they are already doing that. What did they get? A couple of thousand dead Jews. It isn't working.

 

Were they? When and how? What they were recently doing is relatively indiscriminate bombing of a city, including hundreds of 2000 lb bombs dropped on areas they told civilians to go to. This is not what you would do to fight a criminal organization hiding out in one of your own cities. It's what you would do to try to kill lots of people while having enough plausible deniability to possibly avoid being abandoned by allies and isolated. They're even bold enough to bomb refugee shelters, killing dozens of innocent people in order to get at a target. They're bold enough to kill aid workers. Bold enough to fire upon people trying to get food. Biden is pretty old-school on Israel, but even he made clear Israel's actions have been crossing lines and needs to be reined in to avoid damaging relations with their most important ally.

 

This is nonsense. Opposing the starvation of millions of civilians is not the same as supporting another 10/7 attack.

Israel has a right to defend itself within reason. Murdering hundreds of thousands of civilians to kill a couple thousand terrorists is unreasonable.

 

.Nope.I've not seen any act of genocide by the Palestinians.
Fixed

Nope. The Israeli military should have no trouble securing the border once there is one.
The Saudi's, a former enemy of Israel, may have actually participated in shooting down Iran's missiles either by giving intel on missiles or possibly shooting them down themselves. The point being "Death to Israel" or "Death to the US" are slogans much like "Lock her up!". Not really the intent but a good rallying cry.
Until such time as the Palestinians have a nation of their own with defined borders and no uninvited foreign military we have no idea what they'll do. Hamas exists underground because Israel does not allow the Palestinians to have a military and can't operate in the open. If Hamas attacks after there are actual borders then Israel has every right to return fire but to commit genocide as seems to be their current intent is vile. Yesterday alone the number of kids killed by Israeli jet fire was dozens. Little children. That should disgust anyone.

 

Not the same but certainly related. How would you deal with 10's of thousands of your enemies in a cramped area that hides within the population. They have a right to defend themselves PERIOD.

 

Then you view it as hopeless. So let them duke it out.

 

First the number of actual terrorist is at least 10 k not 2k and could be higher. 2nd Hamas purposefully puts children in harms way to provoke the very emotional response you just made. And yeah it is disqusting.

 

If they have the right to defend themselves “period,” does that mean you would support Israel simply nuking Gaza and Iran until they are completely obliterated? Every last man, woman and child dead?

To answer your question, I wouldn’t cut them off from food and water. Starving hundreds of thousands of civilians (I inadvertently said millions in my previous post) to kill a couple thousand terrorists is unacceptable collateral damage under any metric. There is no absolute right to self defense as you suggest.

 

That's like saying the only way to end the Soviet Union was genocide. Clearly, that didn't happen... So why would it happen here?

 

Lol no.

 

I don't want to respond to a hypothetical. I believe nuke in Gaza would destroy some of Israel so it won't happen. I fully support the destruction of Hamas. It the Palestinians weren't protecting them it would be better for them. Their choice.

 

Exactly.

If there was, it would be an argument Hamas could make to excuse it's actions too.

 

The Palestinians could've handed over HAMAS on a silver platter plenty of times, but instead they allow them to hide among them. INNOCENT is a hard word to use. No Oct 7th means no "extreme" bombings. We all know this. Jews might want HAMAS destroyed, but that's far different than Muslims wanting ALL the Jews gone. And the majority of Palestinians don't want peace. If they did, there would be. Just like we have peace with Mexico and Canada. Isreal could wipe every Palestinian off the map, just like we could wipe Canada off the map if we wanted. Yet, we don't, because we have no reason to. If the Canadian govt decided to kill 1000s of Americans on the border one morning, it would be a different story. But Canadians aren't 3rd world animals.

 

LOL.. yes.

 

Why on earth would they hide people fighting for their freedom? Palestine does not have fixed borders, only what Israel says. Palestine does not have a military because Israel says they can't. Palestine does and has for a long time have Israeli soldiers patrolling the streets. Israeli soldiers have observed land being taken forecfully from Palestinians and not interceded. A big such event occurred two months prior to the retaliation that launched the war.
American soldiers were called terrorists for much the same reasons. No, they didn't kidnap children but then neither did the Brits but like Hamas they did hide amongst the population. Also, Washington crossed the Delaware on Christmas, a traditional time of truce back then, yet we make paintings and statues celebrating what was essentially a terrorist attack.

Your perspective can be heavily influenced by your environment.
Israeli military should leave Palestine.
They should establish fixed borders.
Make Jerusalem a city state like the Vatican. It seems the three religions get along fine together there and take it away from Palestinian or Israeli control.

If Palestine can't then control their militants then Israel has a rock to stand on.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middl...dren-killed-gaza-israel-offensive-2024-03-17/

 

So, then, by your own admission, there aren't innocent Palestinians.