Hillary Clinton does not get a pass from me

For the love of god. Proper place of custody on Sci level info is in the facility or secure government system not hooked to the civilian internet. Not on her private server, not even if God himself was the cyber security professional on it which was certainly not the case here.
She allowed it to be removed, destroyed, abstracted and copied multiple times.

 

How about all the people who she gave total access to this server and who had no clearance at all ? There has to be a law against that.

 

She is guilty of multiple crimes. Just watch the video below. What Director Comey says about
Hillary's server being an "unauthorized location for the transmitting of classified information" by
itself is an admission by him that she clearly broke the law.

Exactly. See the video below, 25 seconds into it he admits she broke the law. Nothing could be
more clear.

[video=youtube;OAcOVJD_b4Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAcOVJD_b4Y[/video]

True, I've talked about that many times. From her IT guys that didn't have security clearances, to
her lawyers who she lied to congress (Felony perjury) when she said they read all of the emails.
So many people were granted immunity who committed crimes that there was nobody to prosecute.
This is a point brought up by Trey Gowdy. The reason you give immunity to someone is to proffer
testimony about criminal activities to catch the bigger fish. But Comey gave immunity to all the key
players in the crime.

[video=youtube;TbEJyHgzbxg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbEJyHgzbxg[/video]

They gave immunity to witnesses without a proffer, in exchange for laptops which could have been
obtained with a search warrant.

[video=youtube;ZCVfTwXZ_wU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCVfTwXZ_wU[/video]

I often hear from Democrats about how smart Hillary Clinton is, what a great leader and lawyer
she is. If she is that good, why did she need a team of NINE LAWYERS when interrogated by
the FBI?

 

It's time to impeach Director Comey. He won't reopen the investigation
in spite of new evidence.

[video=youtube;oXzSe3J6ZsA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXzSe3J6ZsA[/video]

 

Guilt, is only something a judge or jury can decide.

that's unless we have abandoned American democracy and are now a Totalitarian/Authoritarian state.

 

You left out as far as the justice system is concerned and under Obama we have no justice system

 

It has become politicized, but also now allows criminal bankers to escape prosecution and jail, the way we used to do it. Case in point, the bankers recently found to have laundered billions in drug money. They were fined 1.5 billion, and they walked. Holder said that to throw them in jail might cause harm to western economies, and so...they are too big to jail.

So, with the Clinton example and the bankers example, we clearly have a two tiered justice system. One for the average guy, and one for the oligarchs. But that is exactly how fascism, oligarchy would operate.

All you have to do to see the corruption, the bribery, that led to an oligarchy, as evidenced by the Princeton Study, is to look with an objective mind, not rendered useless by tribalism and ideology, and it's all evident. That we would argue about the veracity of this is just silly.

So face facts. We live in an oligarchy, who's seed was planted in the 80s, when neoliberal economic philosophy replaced demand economics, and the new deal economic model, and literally turned loose the same elite class that gave us the gilded age and the crash of 29, created by avarice and greed. We took the restraints FDR, another elite, placed upon them, to keep them from pissing in the beds of average americans. This led to oligarchy, where the politicians can keep their seat of power, by the elites financing their campaigns which are so, so, expensive. And so, politicians stopped representing the best interests of the People, and the common good, and are basicially little more than puppets of these elites who were unchained. They change our economy by free trade agreements, offshored our job creation engine, and hollowed out America.

So, this is the justice system of not only tribal democrats, but the oligarchs. Clinton is the only candidate that they have, since Bush was defeated by a grassroots movement. There was no way in hell she was gonna be held accountable for her crimes against America and the security of the people. That is the cold, hard truth.

 

Guilt is not determined by a judge or jury. Guilt is determined by the fact of
whether or not someone committed a crime.

If I murdered someone, but I am never caught, tried and found guilty of that
murder, am I not still guilty of committing a murder?

 

How much do you know about "confidential" classification........... because those are the only ones that are found in the emails.............and not some grandiose conspiracy threatening the well being of our country...........

Give it a rest............what don't you understand about..........NO ONE CARES ABOUT THE DAMN EMAILS

 

I know that uninformed Democrat voters don't care. That's not surprising.

People who want to remain ignorant can go on believing this is all right
wing conspiracy theories by republicans to take down the saintly Clinton's
out of some kind of hateful political revenge.

The truth is that these emails had Confidential, Secret, Top Secret and even
SAP (Special Access Program) level classified information on them.

There is much more going on here besides this scandal and the cover-up.
There is a reason why they had to destroy these emails, and it didn't have
to do with classified information. It had to do with the Clinton Foundation
pay to play racketeering that they needed to hide. And perhaps some info
on Hillary's supplying arms to ISIS.

But for some reason, I can't figure out what it is completely, liberals and
Democrats will defend the Clinton's to the death. No matter how much
corruption is pointed out. No matter what kind of sleazy sex scandal comes
out about Bill, not matter how much money they got for cutting down rain
forests in Columbia, or how they took advantage of blacks in Haiti or in
Africa, Democrats just don't give a damn.

The truly disturbing thing is the lack of justice. When the Clinton's are
above the law, then there are two systems of justice, one for the little guy
and one for the powerful. Democrats are hypocrites, they don't care about
people of color, they don't care about women, they don't care about the
environment, and they don't care about justice.

 

Try and get this to some level of understanding..........

Folks are tired of the trumped up email BS........

That dog don't hunt.......

But no matter how much yall B&M about it the less folks will hear it.........

The whole goal of all this politically motivated scandals was to "get HRC".....

Scream al, you want............nothing of it will increase your base......

And I encourage yall to waste your time trying to make it into a big deal........

Other than yall.........no one else give two big $h!t's about it.......

Is that clear enough for ya

 

That is a bizarre conclusion. At 25 seconds he is asked (following a question about the physical location of the server) a factual question:
Q: Was that an authorized or unauthorized location?
A: It was an unauthorized location for the transmitting of classified information.

But perhaps you did not keep watching. At 2:28:
Q: Did Hillary Clinton break the law?
A: In connection with her use of the email server, my judgment is that she did not.

He doesn't admit that she broke the law at all. On the contrary, he explicitly denies it.

He does suggest that she mishandled classified information, but that did not rise to the level of a criminal prosecution. As he says, someone in the FBI who mishandled classified information could face a range of consequences that do not include prosecution.

So to keep harping on about her being a criminal is just baseless anti-Clinton fantasy. Mishandling classified information - yes, she has admitted that she made a mistake and would not do it again. But that does not mean a crime was committed.

If you watch his testimony he seems forthright and genuine.

 

You are only proving my point. As I said in the OP, I once had
a Top Secret clearance. I would not have gotten away with a
single instance of compromising national security secrets. But
Hillary and her staff did it regularly for 4 years as Secretary of
State.

But let's put that aside, you're not bothered by the millions of
dollars she has taken from Islamic fundamentalist theocracies
and dictatorships that kill gays and enslave women? Not bothered
by scamming Haitians out of billions of dollars in relief money? Not
bothered that they sold oil and mineral rights in African nations to
their crony corrupt friends making deals with brutal dictators and
warlords at the expense of the poor Africans in those countries?
You're not bothered that the cut deals that resulted in the clear
cutting of rain forests in Columbia?

They've betrayed every liberal ideological constituency for the all
mighty dollar. For their own personal greed and gain. Blacks,
women, gays and the environment? What is wrong with you people?

 

If you want to talk about bizarre, we are witnessing Bizarro World. This FBI
Director is either a liar or a complete bumbling idiot, or just as corrupt as the
rest of Washington. Comey says, just as you say, that she did not break the
law, you are right. She didn't break the law with regard to the mishandling of
classified information. But, in this Bizarro World of paradoxical double-speaking,
liberals and Comey have to be acrobatic contortionist to explain that mishandling
classified information, which by definition is punishable by criminal law, isn't
punishable by law. He is totally contradicting himself when on the one hand
he says she mishandled classified information, but in the next breath, says
she didn't break the law. And last time I checked, destroying evidence that is
under a Congressional subpoena is called "Obstruction of Justice" and "Destroying
Federal Records". Because they had plenty of circumstantial evidence that
this was all orchestrated directly by Clinton's closest confidants is also illegal,
we call it "Conspiracy".

[video=youtube;3-dH9Iey4uw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-dH9Iey4uw[/video]

 

I am not a criminal lawyer, but Comey's testimony and the various laws I have been directed to suggest you are incorrect. I have not seen any law stating or defining that "mishandling of classified information" is a crime per se.

I have been directed to laws which state that mishandling classified information in specific circumstances is a crime - but it is essential to prove each and every element in order for it to be a crime. If the mishandling occurs and even one of the essential elements is missing - no crime.

This is why he says that it is possible for someone to mishandle classified information without a prosecution. As he says in the first video, that does not mean there would be no consequences. Just no criminal prosecution.

Now that the FBI has investigated and recommended that no charges be laid, for most people that chapter has closed. I doubt there are very many people who have decided not to vote for Clinton exclusively on this basis. For Hillary haters it is another reason they can give for doing something they never would have done anyway (vote for her).

 

Dude, it is listed #1 on the list of crimes that I posted HERE. Anyone who has had access to classified information (such as I) knows the laws, and the requirements of the laws. I am gladly here to educate you. What you do with this information is up to you. But this is in simple enough terms for a lay person to understand should they be interested in educating themselves.

Now, understand, this is not about a vendetta. This is not about the politics of personal destruction. This is about the rule of law. This is something that every Democrat, every American should be gravely concerned with if they care about their country, the Constitution and freedom. Once we have established a ruling class, a political establishment which is above the law, once we have established a two tiered system of laws, one for the common people and a completely different standard for the elites, you have established tyranny and despotism. What will it be like for liberals when conservatives are in power and can basically write their own ticket? Isn't this what liberals pretend to fear most? If you are worried that Trump will be Hitler, then don't make it easier for that to happen by congregating so much power in the executive branch.

So, read section (f) and try to explain to me how this does not apply in this situation.

"(f) Whoever, being entrusted with or having lawful possession or control of any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, photographic negative, blueprint, plan, map, model, instrument, appliance, note, or information, relating to the national defense, (1) through gross negligence permits the same to be removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of his trust, or to be lost, stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, or (2) having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, and fails to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction to his superior officer—

Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."
(reference)

It's funny that they violated almost every single word of the above statute. Comey said that Hillary Clinton was "extremely careless" which is synonymous with "gross negligence", which is the standard here, not intent, by the way. The use of the words "shall be" are important here when it comes to laws. It doesn't say "can be", or "may be", or "ought to be". It says "shall be" which means it's not optional. This is not a crime "per se", it is a crime "ipso facto".

And this from President Obama's own executive order:

 

You also referred to this. It is very long.

Can you identify specifically which provisions you say Clinton breached? Again, going through each and every element and applying those to the facts.

I am not trying to be difficult. I am trying to be methodical. It is not enough to say "that sounds bad it must be illegal".

For 793(f) I think it would turn on where the proper place of custody is for emails and I do not know the answer to that. I have not seen any law that identifies that the server Clinton used was not the proper place of custody.

 

It doesn't seem to me that you are trying to be methodical, it does seem as though
you are trying to be difficult. I will tell you, there is only one place where you can
have classified information of any sort, whether on paper or in an electronic device,
and that is in a secured government environment/facility. Perhaps if you are a courier,
that would be an exception. The server in her home is neither a proper place of custody,
it is not a secure place, and it is not in her "possession at all times" obviously. Clinton's
Blackberry's, her laptops or tablets, are also not allowed to have classified information
on them.

When you asked me which provisions I say Clinton breached, she breached all of them!

through gross negligence, she permitted Classified information to be:

• removed from its proper place of custody
• delivered to anyone in violation of his trust
• lost
• stolen (this is the only charge that would be assumed if her server was hacked)
• abstracted
• destroyed

And having knowledge that the same has been illegally removed from its proper place of custody or delivered to anyone in violation of its trust, or lost, or stolen, abstracted, or destroyed, she failed to make prompt report of such loss, theft, abstraction, or destruction, to her superior officer.

Seriously, if the situation were reversed, and the republican candidate had Hillary's record, I would hold my nose and vote for the democrat. Even if it were a bad democrat, like Bernie Sanders, or Barack Obama.

 

On the last point - that is fine. You see her mishandling of classified information as inexcusable. That is up to you and I would not presume to try to change your mind on that.

But as Comey says, not all mishandling of classified information rises to the level of a prosecutable criminal offence.

So I will not challenge anyone who says she mishandled classified information. She did, and she has admitted that. But if anyone says she has committed a crime, I will ask them to prove it by reference to the specific law, and how they see the facts demonstrating a breach of that law. Still, nobody has made that effort. A few people have identified what they say are applicable laws, but not one has gone through a prosecutor's checklist of showing the facts that would result in a conviction.

 

People who have not had a Top Secret (SCI) clearance as I have don't know
that you are required to know all of this, the handling of classified information,
and where and how to secure it. Hillary knows, I know, and now you know. I
am not a lawyer either, but it is the law, though I don't know the exact one. I
did reference the EO in the post above (see section (d) under Safeguarding).

delivered to anyone in violation of his trust to whom do you say anything was delivered?
The servers were in the custody of IT professionals that she hired to include
Platte River employees. She delivered the emails to her lawyers on a thumb
drive. So many people had access, I'm not sure how many.
lost in what sense was any government data lost?In the sense that several of her 13 plus devices were reported lost to the FBI.
stolen (this is the only charge that would be assumed if her server was hacked)
abstracted what facts do you say support this?
Abstracted definition: "1. Removed or separated from something else: guidelines abstracted from a manual." The emails were copied and put on a thumb drive for her lawyers.
destroyed I'm pretty sure this cannot be correct... It is not for her to decide what emails were personal. And as it is, she lied to the Congress when she said her lawyers read every one to see it they were work related before deleting them. They didn't. Did you not hear that they recently found 15,000 more that she failed to turn over? They were deleted, and BleachBit was used to destroy all remnants. Two black berries were destroyed with hammers.