How is the "gay rights" movement the same as other civil rights movements?

Are you going to elaborate why?

How are you going to stop them from calling their relationships marriage even if they are not legally married? How will you stop them from calling their civil unions marriages for that matter either? How do you think you can stop this and why is it relevant what it is legally called?

Thought police much?

 

Thats mighty white of you.

 

Because what it's legally called sends a certain message. and no, i am not a "thought cop". whatever that means. lol.

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What does that mean?

 

What is that 'certain' message?

 

If it's called a civil union, then it just means that gay couples have rights. If it's called a "marriage" then it's given the status of marriage.

 

What's wrong with that?

 

Because according to the bible, marriage is between a man and a woman.

 

Well according to our secular laws your personal religion doesn't get the right to insert itself into the government and discriminate against other groups of people. If you want to live in a theocracy try Iran.

Also I really feel like you could have said this at least 4 posts ago and saved us the trouble of this back and forth of, why, why, why. Jeeze.

 

christian conservatives are nothing like iranians.

 

And America is not a theocracy so your religion means nothing to me in this debate or in regards to our secular laws.

Surely you'll get back to me when you have a real non-religious argument against gender discrimination in marriage?

 

Just because a same gender union isn't called a "marriage", it doesn't mean that gay people are being discriminated against, like they are in iran/saudi arabia.

 

So what if we called all government recognized, legal marriages 'civil unions'? And then people can call their 'civil union' whatever they want? That sounds like it works to me.

All this hub-bub over a name. Gimme a break.

 

Why is it so important to you, that the term "marriage" is used?

 

Why is the word "marriage" the sticking point? Please let tradition be your argument.
And the separate but equal thing - that has already been ruled unconstitutional.

I have already shown you "marriage" was stolen and redefined by the church but you ran away from that thread...

Over 1400 state and federal rights are automatically applied with recognition of marriage. This would not necessarily be true with another "union".
Why is it so important to you that it is not used?

 

Thank you. Apparently I was not being coherent enough for him to comprehend any of this.

Perhaps now he will understand with these succinct and clear responses.

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*)! We've gone over this before. Have you no ability to learn?

The issue of Civil Unions keeps coming up, and it’s most often in the context of “ I support full rights for gays but they should not be able to call it marriage” and “Civil Unions are the same thing, why all the fuss ?” Why all the fuss indeed? First of all there is much in words, especially such a powerful, universally understood word as marriage. A word conveys a status, it means that people who that word applies to have certain rights that others may not have. “Citizen” or Citizenship is another such word. What if the law of the land was, that while all citizens had all the same rights and protections, naturalized citizens could not actually call themselves “Citizens.” Perhaps they could be called “Permanent Civil Residents” Does anyone think that these people would actually feel like real citizens who are full accepted by society? How long would it be before these people got sick of explaining what a “Permanent Civil Resident” is. It would be especially difficult when dealing with people from other countries, or travelling abroad where everyone is just a “citizen” They would have to explain their status every time they applied for a job, applied for a passport, or renewed a drivers license. They would be sure to encounter people who were ignorant of the term, or perhaps looking for a reason to stand in their way and deny them their rights. Get the point?

Secondly, jurisdictions where civil unions exist do not always provide full equality. Now you will say that can be remedied by legislation. Well, I’m here to tell you that is not so easy. A few years ago, the New Jersey Supreme Court mandated that Civil Unionized people have all of the same rights as married people. However, the reality is a different thing” http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/28/nyregion/28civil.html

And you might also want to read http://www.gardenstateequality.org/issues/civilunions/

In addition, under federal law, the disparity is even greater, especially now that DOMA has been overturned but couples who are restricted to civil unions do not benefit from that http://www.now.org/issues/marriage/marriage_unions.html

Lastly, I don’t believe for a nanosecond that those who claim that they support equal rights for gays but not marriage actually want and support equality. They are threatened by the idea of gays being able to call their unions “marriage” because if they did , THEN they would ACTUALLY be equal. All of the hoopla about the word is based on that fear. They must defend at all costs the great and stable institution of traditional marriage where the median age for a woman’s pregnancy is now lower that the median age of marriage and where half of these traditional unions end in divorce. Please consider the possibility that redefining marriage may actually strengthen the institution with an influx of stable relationships , and committed partners. Please consider that married same sex couples will simply blend in and become part of the social fabric. However, if you can’t do that, at least be honest and admit that you really don’t buy the “equality” line either.

It's not a viable compromise any more than white / colored facilities were a compromise. Separate but equal and not even equal? Would you "compromise" when it come to your rights? Grow up and get real!

 

What thousands of rights do married couples get?

 

Still more fantasy and myths by those who support homosexuality....sad. There is nothing that shows how gay rights is even close to any other civil rights movement. Gay rights is nothing more than a rip off of legitimate civil rights movements.

 

Tax Benefits

• Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities.
• Creating a "family partnership" under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.

Estate Planning Benefits

• Inheriting a share of your spouse's estate.
• Receiving an exemption from both estate taxes and gift taxes for all property you give or leave to your spouse.
• Creating life estate trusts that are restricted to married couples, including QTIP trusts, QDOT trusts, and marital deduction trusts.
• Obtaining priority if a conservator needs to be appointed for your spouse -- that is, someone to make financial and/or medical decisions on your spouse's behalf.

Government Benefits

• Receiving Social Security, Medicare, and disability benefits for spouses.
• Receiving veterans' and military benefits for spouses, such as those for education, medical care, or special loans.
• Receiving public assistance benefits.

Employment Benefits

• Obtaining insurance benefits through a spouse's employer.
• Taking family leave to care for your spouse during an illness.
• Receiving wages, workers' compensation, and retirement plan benefits for a deceased spouse.
• Taking bereavement leave if your spouse or one of your spouse's close relatives dies.

Medical Benefits

• Visiting your spouse in a hospital intensive care unit or during restricted visiting hours in other parts of a medical facility.
• Making medical decisions for your spouse if he or she becomes incapacitated and unable to express wishes for treatment.

Death Benefits

• Consenting to after-death examinations and procedures.
• Making burial or other final arrangements.

Family Benefits

• Filing for stepparent or joint adoption.
• Applying for joint foster care rights.
• Receiving equitable division of property if you divorce.
• Receiving spousal or child support, child custody, and visitation if you divorce.

Housing Benefits

• Living in neighborhoods zoned for "families only."
• Automatically renewing leases signed by your spouse.

Consumer Benefits

• Receiving family rates for health, homeowners', auto, and other types of insurance.
• Receiving tuition discounts and permission to use school facilities.
• Other consumer discounts and incentives offered only to married couples or families.

Other Legal Benefits and Protections

• Suing a third person for wrongful death of your spouse and loss of consortium (loss of intimacy).
• Suing a third person for offenses that interfere with the success of your marriage, such as alienation of affection and criminal conversation (these laws are available in only a few states).
• Claiming the marital communications privilege, which means a court can't force you to disclose the contents of confidential communications between you and your spouse during your marriage.
• Receiving crime victims' recovery benefits if your spouse is the victim of a crime.
• Obtaining immigration and residency benefits for noncitizen spouse.
• Visiting rights in jails and other places where visitors are restricted to immediate family.

Feel free to answer any of the legitimate questions I have asked.
I am genuinely interested as you are one of the few anti-ssm members here who can at least form a rational thought instead of rhetoric.

 

1-Correct.

2-Explain why gay people getting married is needed for society to accept them.

 

It's not about society accepting them, it's about having their status and civil rights legally recognized under the law.

You and your religion can sit around and not approve and not accept gay people or their 'actions/sins/blah blah whatever all day long, but that should have absolutely no bearing on their civil rights under our secular government.

 

Still more fantasy and myths by those who support discrimination against Americans because they are homosexual, which is sad.

Discrimination is discrimination and is antithetical to what America stands for- whether it is discrimination against African Americans, Jews, Christians or homosexuals

 

What is "Correct" ? Explain why gay people getting married bothers you so damned much. It's not that it's " needed for society to accept them" It's needed because there is no rational reason for it to be denied to them. Do you think that you have a rational reason Sam?