If Machine Guns are illegal

What's the problem with banning AR-15's, Bump stocks and HIGH capacity magazines. America doesn't have to ban ALL guns entirely, but there are certain weapons that are not acceptable to be owned by private citizens and they don't need to be, while still maintaining their 2nd Amendment rights. If legal Gun owners had taken their right of Gun ownership seriously, locked them up and not allowed criminals access to them over the years, we wouldn't have this problem of all these stolen guns being used to murder people. All Guns I presume at one point were purchased legally when new, but at some point they came into the hands of criminals and murderers, because their owners didn't secure them or sold them to someone who should have been checked out with an extensive background check. America's Mass murder epidemic can be laid right at the feet of those who claim to be law abiding responsible Gun owners, because they haven't done enough to keep this problem from becoming what is has.

http://www.businessinsider.com/canada-australia-japan-britain-gun-control-2013-1

 

No. violence is cultural. All of it. Big and small

Why does it have to be repeated 1 zillion times and hands held like a small child crossing the street?

Bump stocks? Ridiculous modification a novelty item really. Who cares. ban it. The President already is having the DOJ do so

No one is banning AR-15s or other modifications.

Stop getting fueled by media hysterics willingly.

I'll try and explain a little. The AR-15 which is popular isn't a unique thing. It belongs to a family of guns called semi automatic Rifles..now.. The AR-15 specifically is just a weapon system that shoots a variety of different caliber bullets. Please see below :

The AR platform can be adapted to dozens of different calibers, like this Rock River Arms LAR-6.8 chambered in 6.8 Remington SPC.

THE SERIES. Part 1: Build an AR-15: The Series Introduction. ....223 Remington / 5.56x45mm. ....300 AAC Blackout / .300 Whisper. ...6.5 Grendel. ...6.8 Remington SPC. ...5.7x28mm. ...7.62x39mm. ....458 SOCOM.

So if you ban AR-15s you essentially are saying you want to ban not just assault Rifles but nearly every single semi automatic rifle in America. There's hundreds of different types, models, I mean the sheer scope of your What's the problem in your assertion OP is mind blowing


Starting to sink in? It's never going to happen.

As to the ridiculous link about gun deaths and violence or there lack of is 100% cherry picked leftist garbage as usual using selected narrative fitting data.

You want real data with over 20 sources comparing UK and US gun and other violent assaults including murder?

Heres the truth. The UK is more violent more dangerous than here.

I'll post it. Be careful. I'd take a portable safe space with you while reading. It's not pretty.

Violence is cultural. Take away the guns and it will be acid, or poison or bombs.

http://igeek.com/w/U.S._vs_U.K._-_Crime/Murder

 

Someone's in denial.

Do you think it's you, or everyone else on the planet. I wonder.

 

An AR-15 isn't special in any way compared to any other semi-auto centerfire rifle, and it fires a round (the .223) that is low-powered compared to average hunting rifle rounds. If you are going to ban the AR-15, you might as well ban all semi-auto centerfire rifles. At least then it would be a consistent proposition. Bump stocks will probably be outlawed soon. As for high-capacity magazines, they really don't make that much of a difference when it comes to someone planning a mass shooting.

 

Machine guns are not illegal to own.

And no person who legally owned a machine gun has ever used it to commit a crime during the past seventy years.

I can own a machine gun or a full automatic sub machine gun or rifle if I wanted one.
I'm able to pass the ATF background check and pay the ATF tax. But they are somewhat expensive.

But the California reconguista socialist and Marxist in Sacramento wouldn't be happy campers.

747964838



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https://www.gunbroker.com/Machine-Guns/BI.aspx

 

I don't think there is anything special about the AR15. High capacity magazines are worth banning. If you have to reload after 5 rounds people can run away...

 

Clyde Darrow used a BAR (which is a light machine gun) and many in the thirties used Thompson which is a submachine gun. They have not been used much since (they were used in a least one LA attack so its not seventy years) because they are very difficult to get.

Almost none of the hand held weapons people talk about our machine guns which in military usage requires at bipod or heavier support. They are talking about what the military calls a submachine gun, assault rifle (AK-74), machine pistol etc. Not that this really matters.

 

Not to worry, folks: SCOTUS will determine what are "weapons of war" that civilians may not possess.

 

The supreme court has made it pretty clear they are not going to hear any more major gun cases. They did so just last week again.

 

I suggest the problem lies at the feet of the media for perpetuating this fad and romanticization of school shootings through 24/7 news coverage, continuous discussions, repeated coverage and the fight against guns. I propose we exercise 1st amendment limits against the media to shut down discussion so the fad will die. If not, the epidemic of America's mass murders lies at their feet. Are you ok shutting down media coverage except for brief periods and with very limited information disclosure? Or do you only hate guns?

 

Sorry the problem could be greatly reduce by small actions such as limiting the magazines to ten rounds and perhaps changing the design of the rifles to slow down the changes out of magazines.

Oh the M16 and the AR 15 civil copy have the small cal rounds so a large amount of ammo can be carry on foot to supply them and large magazines with a great many rounds in them could be employed on the battlefield.

There is no earthly reason however for civil life to have a 100 rounds in a AR 15 magazine except for mass murder or even 'just' 30 rounds for that matter.

The AR15 and similar rifles are not design for hunting most game animals or home defense unless you wish to piss off your neighbors with that kind of massive fire.

http://blog.cheaperthandirt.com/surefires-100-mag5-100-highest-capacity-ar-15-magazine/

 

While it is true the media makes problems seem worse the idea without a media 17 murders in a high school would not get heard about or raise a fuss is unlikely

 

What get me is that Clyde Darrow girlfriend Bonnie Elizabeth Parker weighting in at all of 90 pounds also used a BAR.

 

My lord 17 murders in a high school would be no big deal but for the media is now being floated????

The crazy right would be better off by going back to claiming that those deaths did not happen as it was all stage by the anti guns groups.

Similar to the Sandy Hook school shootings that was all made up by the anti guns crowd according to the crazy right elements.

 

The BAR was the weapon of choice of the Barrow's gang.

At 19 lbs, the BAR had little recoil.

Rule of thumb, for every 25% increase in weight the recoil goes down by 25%. -> http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

The Thompson sub machine gun has little recoil because it so freaking heavy at 10 lbs.

The BAR is one of the best squad automatic rifles ever made.

 

I have always read that only really strong soldiers could fire a BAR upright. It was really intended to be fired on a bipod. Its more the weight of the weapon that is the issue than anything else. It was a light machine gun not a submachine gun or automatic rifle (indeed except for some specialty Marine units it was the only light machine gun deployed by the US in WWII). It was designed to do what the British Bren or German MG-34 was (the latter could be light medium or heavy machine gun in different modes).

Most accounts of Bonnie had her not actually shooting anyone.

 

Well no... I disagree. Not because of an agenda please rest assured. I find the entire leftist gun control political platform pillar to be obtuse.
I have been a little more snarky than normal lately about it because of the shooting and the very transparent willingness of the media to sensationalize it and exploit the survivors.

I applaud you taking a few minutes to try and educate yourself on the weapon but no one uses a 100 round magazine in reality. It's a novelty like the bump stock. Your car has a top speed of 100 mph I'm sure. Do you drive everywhere at that speed? Do you ever drive at that speed? Probably not. Few do. It's not practical. Same with 100 round drums.

There is no design change to slow down the exchange of magazines I can think of that would even be safe. If you need to change the magazine you need to change it. Right then

Lastly your declaration and your own personal opinion that no one in civil life needs to have even a 30 round clip except for mass murder. Sir your personal leftist, political, opinion alone that you have not supported one bit shouldn't reduce you too fear mongering. (another political tool)

That above is your shifting your narrative and source from the OP to still come at the same place which ultimately is your position and political agenda for the banning of semi automatic rifles.

While obviously knowing very little on how they operate.

Why do that? It's boring. Particularly if you get caught up with someone that is knowledgeable on the subject and further more has made a counter assertion that you have completely ignored and decided to go get edumacated about " scary" modifications and bullets for a rifle.

My assertion being that mass shootings, murder, assault all violence is cultural. It is not a thing we can point at and say bad thing! whip out a magic wand and make it go away.

It would be grand yes. Feasible no. Because violent people in a violent culture will always find ways to do violence. Even mass violence. More easily and cheaper than an AR-15

I am not asking you at this point to refute my assertion. It is irrefutable. My source I plopped down is just one of a hundred, factual analysis that supports my assertion that our societies culture is the cause of all violence and varying some times horrendous degrees of it.

What I may ask if it's ok is if at some point if your opinion or anyone you meet opinion ever in your life gets tired of being a political hack with the scope and sensitivity of a gnat? And can help me figure out how to if not remove but lessen violence in our culture to a threshold that would remove the possibility of a mass murder?

Sigh I would eternally be in your debt. As would I think the world.

Gn. Nice chat

 

Lol... Oh you guys. . "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED " CAN'T DUMB IT DOWN ANY MORE FOR YAS.

 

Out of curiosity why would anyone need a 30 round magazine in the US. To stop zombies?

There is not going to be a lot of real world case in the US where you need to fire 30 rounds at one time. I can't remember any in my lifetime.

 

Any rifle with a 50 or 100 round magazine wouldn't be a balanced rifle. That's why 30 rounds max is what the military uses.

Most states you are limited to five round capacity while hunting for large game. That's why they make 5 round capacity magazines for AR's and AK's.

Every year during deer season you are seeing more deer hunters with AR's

AR's like the AR-15 and AK's seems to be the rifle of choice when pig hunting now days.
Hunting for wild boars is a dangerous sport.
Wild boars are dangerous fierce animals, very aggressive and will attack. They'll rip you apart.

Hunting dangerous big game like a grisly bear, nothing smaller than a 30-06 but preferably something more powerful and a bolt action rifle with a Mauser action just in case you need a follow up shot when the angry grisly is charging at you after you hit him with that first round.

A bolt action rifle with a Mauser action like pre-64 Winchester Mod. 70's you can chamber a new round while holding the rifle upside down. There's never a failure in cambering a new cartridge with Mauser action rifles.

Why hunters are trading in traditional hunting rifles for the AR-15


AR-15s have long been a symbol of the tactical world, but black rifles are slowly creeping their way past military and law enforcement applications and into the world of hunting. Touting more caliber options, efficiency and modularity, the versatile platform is transforming the way hunters down prey, but what’s causing hunters to ditch traditional rifle set-ups in favor of modern sporting rifles?

The biggest benefit to the AR, or modern sporting rifle, platform has always been its modularity. Unlike traditional bolt-action setups, gun owners can easily swap between an almost endless sea of uppers and lowers. This ability to trade in and out parts allows hunters to fine-tune their hunting platform to desired specifications.

This modularity is especially useful for hunters who routinely stalk various kinds of prey, utilizing an array of calibers to do it. While the most common chambering on the MSR lineup is undoubtedly .223/5.56, an increase in popular cartridges like .300 Blackout and 6.5 Creedmoor have pushed parts manufacturers to offer more uppers and barrels outside the 5.56 realm. This caliber modularity advantage elevated the AR-15s popularity in the hunting world, making it a viable contender against bolt-action.

Mark Grimsley, a hunter out of Kansas and owner of the Fit’n Fire YouTube channel told Guns.com in an interview that the AR-15’s vast array of caliber options is one of many reasons he chose an AR setup for hunts.

“One rifle can be easily converted in to several different variants that will allow you to choose the right caliber for your hunt,” Grimsley said. “Going coyote hunting on Monday, use your .223/5.56 upper. Going whitetail hunting Tuesday, switch to the .300 Blackout. Going Elk hunting on Wednesday, change your upper again to a 6.5 Grendel. All of those upper receivers can be used with the same type of lower which gives greater flexibility for the hunter and the AR platform.”

Grimsley, an 11-year U.S. Army veteran, also pointed to the AR-15s widespread familiarity as a reason some hunters, especially those coming from military and law enforcement backgrounds, are choosing modular sporting rifles.

“One of the main reasons that I started using an AR style rifle to hunt with was because it was so familiar to me,” Grimsley said. “I have been around the AR platform for about two decades now, between my father’s influence and my military time, and I have become extremely comfortable with its feedback, loading/unloading, placement of the safety, and remedial actions to clear malfunctions should there ever be any.”

Aside from modularity, hunters say the AR-15 offers a level of versatility unparalleled in the bolt-action universe. MSRs easy disassembly and reassembly procedure in addition to the advent of the collapsible stock grants hunters the ability to hike in several miles on foot with the gun carried stealthily and safely in a backpack. Hunters traipsing through fields in unrestricted states are also afforded the luxury of 30 round magazines which increase the number of shots a hunter can fire in a given time period while decreasing follow-up shot time. This can often mean the difference between taking a trophy and going home empty handed.

“I believe in one well-placed shot,” coyote hunter Greg Sodergren told Time Magazine of the AR-15. “(But) if you’ve got multiple animals or you miss, you’ve got a quick follow-up shot.”

In addition, the speed in which the AR cycles its bolt as compared to the manual cycling of a bolt-action means more potential shots on target or multiple shots effortlessly carried out on multiple targets...

continue -> http://www.guns.com/2017/11/17/why-hunters-are-trading-in-traditional-hunting-rifles-for-the-ar-15/

 

I think another advantage of the AR is that its cheap and easy to find.

AK-47's are allowed for hunting? I thought they were banned in the US (maybe its just the import that is). I did not think you could or would want to fire with an automatic weapon hunting.

AR's like the AR-15 and AK's seems to be the rifle of choice when pig hunting now days.

AK-74 fire 5.56 ammo I think. I am not sure what recent AK-47 fire but I would think you would want to hunt boar with something really big and at long range.

 

Hand guns are a MASSIVE problem compared to AR-15's and that is why no one cares about what you are saying. It is built on a completely false premise which makes it obvious what the real goal is, to ban all guns whatsover and since the lie is so easy to read through, things like what you are talking about will never be enacted.

And Mass Murder Epidemic? That statement is a complete fabrication. Mass Shootings were down DRAMATICALLY and so were gun deahts as a whole. To top that off, hand guns kill 10 imes as many as "assault weapons".

"Mass Shootings" account for 1% of total gun homicides, and they have been increasing lately ONLY because the media is turning these school shootings into propoganda events, it is pathetic.

When you know the actual statistics, trying to ban weapons like the AR-15 which account for such a miniscule amount of gun homicide makes it obvious that this is a media driven campaign where the ened goal is to ban all weapons.

Why can't you just come out with the truth and say that from the beginning? This is why while polls will say, some things need to be enacted, nothing will actually get done. The things that the Left want to do, literally have nothing to do with the actual stats that we are able to see when it comes to gun violence and homicides

 

People are bothered by mass shootings. Whether that is rational or not is besides the point politically.

 

Exactly, the only rason the "Mass SHooting" issue has been coming up more and more is becuase the media is pushing it. Up until 2010 mass shootings were dropping like a rock, let alone trying to blame AR-15's on the death's of people in the US.

Mass shootings account for 1% of homicides by guns.

Hand guns account for more than times that of "Assault Rifles". Yet the Left agenda is to push a gun that barely kills anyone compared other guns? That makes it such a blatant lie that there seems no point in even talking rationally about it.

The media is pushing this storm and until they stop doing so, I will never be on board with the Left agenda to get guns banned like Australia.

 

Is "besides the point"?

WTF does that even mean? You are basically just spouting out the media spin that they have been trying to gin up more and more and more. The funny thing, people are disagreeing more and more and the Right is rising faster and faster based on the over reaction of the Left trying to use the media to get what they want

Then they have people who are trying to support them by saying "Whether it is rational or not is besides the point" hahahaa that statement right there is why I could care less about what the Left keeps posting about guns.