Is a new America civil war inevitable and unstopable at this point?

Not in arms, no. Irreconcilable differences don't inevitably lead to open conflict. The Catholics and Protestants in Britain, at least outside of Ireland, have deep-seated differences of extreme importance and yet have maintained peace. We have, in our own, other comparable differences that have existed for a long time without war.

 

Slavery was supposed to begin to be ended in 1808; it was only an extreme latitude of construction that enabled our civil war.

 

I'm sure the federal government would react the same way the last time states tried to leave.

 

Not exactly. The Founders hoped it would be abolished in 1808. It wasn't "supposed to"

 

States' ceding their formerly sovereign social power over immigration to the general government was supposed to be the beginning of the end.

 

I passed this by at least twice.

What? Do you mean that anyone can be racist or only the two sides of a coin?

Radical Karl loves this kind of talking. He remains influential.

Cool. So this means not only the government will have guns. I love that Second Amendment.

Now is the time to join with me to call for a fair tax or a flat tax. The political power will fade away with either tax. Problem solved. Thank me at your leisure.

Whoa! A couple of Brothers have enough money to start their own country? Does this have anything to do with your coinage comment above, two sides and all that? "Hey Bro, wanna start a country?"

LOL. Fair Tax or flat tax will solve your problems. Join me.

We would not want the representatives to be held accountable would we?

Radical Karl was the cat's pajamas, wasn't he? I love that class warfare stuff.

Our current problem is the current occupant. He knowingly lied to get Obamacare through. He should be impeached for high crimes. I believe he should go to jail for the rest of his life. Let's worry about Cruz, that radical Constitutional Conservative, if he gets into the Presidential Office and helps to restore the Constitution, you know, as a dictator.

I just love your humor.

True dat.

Think government. The federal government takes trillions of dollars worth of wealth from some to give to others (but not to buy votes or anything).

I am delightfully amused. Thank you for this moment of mirth.

 

What I mean is that black , white, red or oriental. can be and many times are racial purists, As far as the second amendment is concerned, the Right to keep and bear arms is taken way out of context. It says In order to maintain a well regulated militia, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be abriged. The government does have the right to regulate who and under what instance a firearm can be owned. This amendment also really doesn't have a bearing on this day and age, it was written when to have multiple shots you had to carry many weapons. It took a full minute to load and fire three rounds, the archetects of this amendment could not have had foresight about a law that was designed to be able to protect frontier community's from attack, that our citizens could go buy weapons that could put a hundred rounds in the air in under a second, or a weapon that could destroy a building with one shot.

I don't know what the high crimes Obama supposedly did, but our constitution was designed to change with the times we live in, and the need of the people, the reason why new healthcare laws are needed is not for the protection of profit, but to protect the weakest and less fortunate of our nation. The money paid to the health insurance company is blood money, It is meant for self protection, but used for personal profiteering. The law says that 80% of what is bought in in premiums has to be used to pay for medical care. This is why congress and the tea party hares this law so much. The want the CEOs of the insurance company's who usually are not doctors, but MBAs to make medical decisions, kick people out of insurance because they are to expensive, with an illness they did not have any control about. My insurance wants to do this to me right now because I got MRSA in my spine causing my legs to have no feeling, I have threatened to sue if they try and expunge me from their system. I worked 31 years for this coverage. I do not care if I am using up to much profit.

As far as Cruze is concerned he was born in Canada his father was not a citizen at the time, his parents as far as I could tell were not there in an official capacity for the USA.

 

The civil war was also fought for states rights questions. Federation has never really worked as the old soviet union is finding out with the creation of the Federated States of Russia. To many self interests by region. We found out in the first eleven years after the revolution, it did not work, The confederacy was a total failure. Those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We have a whole bunch of ignorant people if they think that history has not been proved already. Examine what can be improved and updated for the time we live in, This is the constitutions idea at it most basic. Flexibility to change with the times.
We have had more than one revolt, the civil war, the whisky rebellion, the revenue wars of the prohibition, now a bunch of mindless drug users are trying to convince the rest of the nation there isn't any danger in allowing recreational drug use. We have one legal drug already. It cost over 30000 deaths in the last three years on our roads many of then innocent kids.
If you want to build a great future for our nation get on real problems. Don't tear it apart, work for real justice and change. Be proactive instead of the tea party ideal of run interference to change. Don't let the few be special and have different laws and rules to live by.
The French had the kings guard who had a motto, One for all and all for one.

 

Therefore what?

This is what is in my Constitution, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
Just because our government does something does not mean it is right or even Constitutional. "...shall not be infringed" is very specific.

I think it would be best if you not try to interpret the 2nd Amendment.

I also wrote, "Our current problem is the current occupant. He knowingly lied to get Obamacare through. He should be impeached for high crimes. I believe he should go to jail for the rest of his life. Let's worry about Cruz, that radical Constitutional Conservative, if he gets into the Presidential Office and helps to restore the Constitution, you know, as a dictator."

He committed massive fraud against the American people. Those who are not in government go to jail for decades for doing what this ass, with all due respect, did.

It is quite possible that you have never read that document. If you want a new power you have to amend the Constitution. When you do not you invite tyranny, much like we have now.

Are you referring to the several millions who have lost the coverage they had?

All Marxists talk down profit. I believe it is because you are confused. Radical Karl was confused. You are in great company. He is enormously influential amongst the intellectuals who wish to rule us, for our own good, of course.

The devil is always in the details, isn't it? What does that mean?

Do you know that when people with pre-existing conditions were invited to sign up less than ten thousand did so? Do we have to destroy the nation, its people and our freedom so then thousand of you can get the care you need?

Do you believe that having government control the health care insurance industry (to the delight of the massive companies who now have guaranteed customers and guaranteed high profits) means you will have health care? In other countries that have gone down the fascist or socialist road that has not been the case. When you become too expensive the government will simply tell you to go home and take an aspirin. They will find the care not cost effective and then you will suffer and you will die. When the government controls everything you are pretty much screwed once they tell you that you are screwed.

Fortunately it will not depend upon your assessment if it ever comes to that.

 

Do you realize that a confederation and a federation are not quite the same things? Our confederation did not work because the states kept nearly all powers for themselves and gave practically no power to the governmental entity that was to act for all of them. The federation enumerates powers to the federal government so that it can meet the needs of the member states in those areas. In our case the federal government, as established by the US Constitution, has vast, but limited powers, the enumerated powers. All other powers not granted are retained by the states and by the people.

I do not know what this means but I believe it is a good example of irony.

If I give you a link will you promise to read it before you post about it again?

The problem, as you put it, is quite simple. We no longer follow our Constitution.

 

The worst and most destructive racism in America over the past 50 years has been affirmative action, promoted by Democrats. And they still promote it, and act like it's innocent.

 

Sorry it took me so long to post a reply....I dropped my cordless mouse a few inches out of reach while laying on my couch so rather than get up and get it I waited a few days until my CAT who likes to play with it batted it within my reach. LOL!!!

So...what were we talking about?

AboveAlpha

 

About Hoveround and Lazy Boy needing to team up to invent a power wheelrecliner or Ben Franklin attributing all his inventions to his laziness. I forget which since I never bothered to write it down.

 

Yeah - I think that was Yippy, Yappy and Yahooey, ...oh wait ... it was the Three Stooges ... I think ?

 

As I said the builders of our constitution designed it to change as needed. When a system was seen to not work then regulation became needed. This is the reason that we have a congress, and senate, They as well as other duties congress is charged with keeping our system of laws from stagnating. Inflexibility is not the way our system was designed, but we have people that want to sit on their thumbs in congress and scream our founding fathers said! They don't live in the here and now, by the logic that the second amendment states, if they had the materials, they could build a WMD in their living room and there could not be anything under the law be said.

 

Yep, last I heard, THAT was still perfectly legal. But those longhorns have such pretty, long eyelashes.

 

I think Grant and Sherman reconciled those differences a few years back.

 

anyone calling for civil war and enters a public area while armed should be locked up and receive a thorough psych eval.

 

Lincoln had some good advice. I mean, besides the Gettysburg Address.

 

Try this, again?



Yeah.

 

new civil war? no freaking way.

incidents of isolated violence and civil disobedience?

perhaps.

 

I think civil war is inevitable. It might not reach the level of 20,000 troops on a battlefield facing off against each other, but I believe there will be bombings, assassinations, kidnappings, sabotage, retaliations and small marginalized groups claiming responsibility for this or that. The weapons might have changed since CWI, but insanity has not and we have the same types of unhinged people emerging from the country's nether parts and the same types of people willing to glom on and lead them in exchange for 15 minutes of fame.

 

the American people will turn against ANYONE who dares to commit acts of political violence in the USA.

we are a nation that respects the democratic process.

subvert that process & try to harm people, and the nation will demand you be put down.

 

I wish that was true, but even the low-life Tim McVeigh is considered a hero and a martyr in certain parts of this country.

 

Nationalism is only dangerous to the people's liberties when tyrants use it to endanger them and the people are not vigilant to protect them. Slavery clarified the issue, since we couldn't have abolished it as anything but a single nation and couldn't have survived any longer as a free people with it.

Redefining is open interpretation, or part of it.

Webster's wasn't written until after the Constitution but I think that using it makes for a clear enough document. The very fact that you do not agree with something does not necessarily mean it is wrong. The Constitution shouldn't be easy to change and that's as it should be, but it shouldn't be easy to keep laws within it either. That's why our legislatures should be staffed with wise and trustworthy people

You are right there. The Soviet Union was ready to collapse in 1953, but we kept it alive by our Cold War, which gave it a sense of national purpose and, most paradoxically, by continuing to sell them grain to make up for their chronic shortfalls, (Shortfalls which went back to the very beginnings of Russia, btw, and are a main reason it's so big). The REAL main man who destroyed the SU was, wait for it, Jimmy Carter, the first one ever to put morality before profits and refuse to sell them wheat after they invaded Afghanistan. Forced to go on the world market and pay higher prices their economy was so damaged that they fell a decade later, just in time for Reagan to take the credit.

And you are a good example of a wannabe tyrant masquerading as a protector of our "freedom". The SCOTUS has declared these Act Constitutional and our system says that we take their word over yours. Why do you hate America?

You both do realize you can appeal anything a building inspector tells you? You can ask him for a reason and he has to give you a good one, as adjudicated in a court of law

Hey, birds do it all the time, shouldn't we be one with nature?

Largely because they're not so. The commerce and necessary and proper clauses are meant to be interpreted broadly because they are WRITTEN broadly. The only way to interpret them "narrowly" is to give them no power at all, and I don't think the Writers would have put them in had that been their intention.

Possibly, but if your "freedom" results in America BECOMING Mexico or Belize then I have a problem with it. If I buy the house you've built from you or your heirs I want to be able to rely on it's safety. And, like I said, you do have the right to appeal anything a Building Inspector tells you, though the much easier course is to go to the Inspector first. You'd be surprised at how many are friendly chaps and are quite forthcoming with free info that will give you a better job for less money

Actually most plantation owners would have killed for a good cotton picking machine. Slaves were expensive both to obtain and maintain and getting work out of them made a talented overseer one of the South's more lucrative professions. The value of the slave was that many were skilled craftsmen and enough of them could do nearly everything needed on a big farm to make it a self-sufficient unit which could sometimes actually dock and load oceangoing ships in the numerous coves of the South's emerging coastline. There is also the fact that Southrons somehow actually liked to be waited on hand and foot and breeding pretty young slaves was sure a lot more fun than masturbating bulls for insemination, I don't care how many prizes they'd won. This may have been a partial reason why slaves were the greatest store of capital stock existing in the South, or, indeed, the entire USA, by 1860.

Okay, let's hear your solution. Feel free to start another thread and link to it

Some of them don't seem to realize that what they're talking about is MURDERING PEOPLE. You ought to hear when I suggest that's what they're actually proposing when they start all this "the 2nd Amendment is so we can protect our freedoms" stuff. I mean, what do they mean to do, just BRANDISH the gun, or what? Of course there is a large contingent that is fully aware that's what they're talking about, and anxious to get started.

I REALLY hope they'd just say fine, go ahead. Then close the borders and cut off trade. That IS our legitimate right as a sovereign nation..

My understanding is that the only thing ending in 1808 was the importation of new slaves. They certainly didn't need any since, as I have mentioned, breeding new ones certainly wasn't difficult. Slavery was dying when the Constitution was written and not expected to last much past 1808. However, they did not reckon with the cotton gin, which made cotton, even cotton picked by inefficient slaves, profitable.