Israel, Mired in Ideological Battles, Fights on Cultural Fronts

I do not agree... There is something wrong with this guy... when they were distributing <brain/intelligence> he must have been last in line.

 

In short there is no 'Palestine' since 1948... In general there was never an independent Palestine in History... EVER!!!

 

Nope. They were sitting in their living rooms playing scrabble or whatever they do at home until the Arabs declared war. That's when your 700 K went on the move.

It is strange because it seems that it is almost universal what with all the Arab nations that do the exact thing or even worse as well as the western nations that are same or worse yet you feel it only worth mentioning in order to attack Israel.

Yes, I would like to discuss how something that is almost universal is considered evil when Israel does it but when Palestinians or others do it is never mentioned. You may begin now.

Your post where when pointed out that Palestinians and Arabs are even more racist and guilty of ethnic cleansing than Israelis you decided to move the goal posts and declare that Israel had to now be better than them and should only be compared to western nations when in fact, they are better than many western nations even when they are in the midst of a war. So, look to yourself for the ever changing ways in which to blame Israel when in fact they are only one part of the equation.

That's good and glad we have you on record as what is going on in Israel is unlike apartheid as apartheid is a South African word meaning ""separateness", or "the state of being apart", literally "apart-hood") was a system of racial segregation in South Africa enforced through legislation by the National Party (NP), the governing party from 1948 to 1994.""

So, now that we have agreed that Israel is not conducting a South African system of racial segregation enforced through legislation we can move on. I take it that you will be correcting people who post idiotic arguments stating that Israel is conducting apartheid particularly one who posts lying polls that don't ask the questions or provide the answers that he says they do.

Of course. No nation is perfect as demonstrated by the ethnic cleansing carried out in most of the Arab Nations and the wish of the Palestinians to wipe the Jews from the Levant in an orgy of murder and Islamic Jihad.

That's right. Palestinians would be just as much if not more racist than any other peoples.

I am on their side which is why I have continually recommended that they rescind their declaration of war, strike the violent destruction of Israel from their charters and sue for peace, even at the cost of unconditional surrender.

 

Guess your right about the arabs, but they learned over time. [/quote]

Wow. Your search for equivalency shouldn't be conducted in the gutter. As to the arabs learning over time, considering their track record of generational losing, it appears obvious they learned the wrong friggin' lessons.

What a clownish response. I don't justify zionist actions in the same fashion as you do. I happen to have a grasp of the history of the conflict that you apparently don't.

Of course arabs are humans. As such they are just as prone to corrupt, inept leadership as any other peoples, and history has definitely demonstrated their penchant for same. But since obviously you aren't a student of history, you wouldn't know that.

 

Wow. Your search for equivalency shouldn't be conducted in the gutter. As to the arabs learning over time, considering their track record of generational losing, it appears obvious they learned the wrong friggin' lessons.





What a clownish response. I don't justify zionist actions in the same fashion as you do. I happen to have a grasp of the history of the conflict that you apparently don't.








Of course arabs are humans. As such they are just as prone to corrupt, inept leadership as any other peoples, and history has definitely demonstrated their penchant for same. But since obviously you aren't a student of history, you wouldn't know that.[/QUOTE]

The Moral equivalency... the Jews fought the Nazis, in the Ghetto Warsaw, with the British and US armies... it was the Arabs that cooperated with the Nazis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=816&v=VjARZPAcATM

 

so? while that may be historically correct, the past 100 years or so of history have most definitely established the arabs that lived in the Mandate (sans jordan) are a "people" unto themselves.

Interesting that in order to establish, maintain and expand the Jewish nation, the zionists have no trouble in denying another people their own.

I realize the myriad problems that only an insane person would ignore by simply "handing over the keys" to the current palestinian leadership is a ridiculous proposition, but the underlying principle of zionism has the same emotional motivation as Palestinian nationalism today.

 

Who are you to talk about the gutter?

Youve just blamed millions of men, women and children as pathetic losers because they didnt stop the Israeli army.

But youre butthurt when I mention how millions of Jewish men women and children couldnt stop the Nazis. LOL.

As for the arabs, theyve been on the up for decades, Israel is retreating slowly but surely. Its about willpower dont you think?

LOL, why waste your time passing these lame retorts?

We have justified each sides actions the same way, again your just butthurt that I can touch a nerve with your side.

As for history, Im happy to discuss in detail anything you wish and answer any question you have.

Corrupt leadership indeed, but not corrupt aims, not corrupt desires. Instead youve naturalised and humanised and therefore justified their aims and desires.

Why do you keep telling me I dont know anything about this conflict? Ive been here for years, Ive read almost every reachable book on the subject. Is there some book or work youd like to enlighten me about or some argument you think Ive really missed? Im all ears.

 

I claimed as history evinces that the Palestinians and their arab cousins LOST in 48 and that trend has continued to this day. Its not the fault of millions of arabs, its the fault of their incompetent, inept, corrupt leadership that have consistently exploited their plight for their own political purposes.

AS to Israel retreating? Is that how you perceive the occupation? Funny, but it seems as tho those illegal settlements are growing.

No, I have not justified zionist actions in the same fashion as you have. In fact, I haven't justified any zionist action as my comments were concerning the Palestinians. It was you who pulled a godwin.

As to history, you have already demonstrated that you understanding of it has some enormous gaps.

So you admit corrupt and inept leadership. I have no issue with the desire of the palestinians to have their own nation. Of course that is contingent on them and the Israelis making certain compromises especially with the "non-negotiables" on both sides. It is also contingent on building trust between the two polities.
It makes no sense for the Israelis to simply hand over the territories without agreement and since agreement seems to be the last thing on the Palestinians minds (and some zionists) the likelihood of such compromises in the foreseeable future are pretty damn slim.

I note that despite your claim of knowledge of the history of the conflict, I note you have either conveniently ignored aspects that do not support your statements or are ignorant of same.

IMHO, neither side in this clustermuck wears a white hat.

 

Nah not really. And you know it.

Yeah 'seems so' but since youre quite biased for Israel you most likely see it all as too much against Israel when in fact you havent taken other factors into account, like the fact that no one on this forum is defending the likes of Saudi Arabia - in fact the only people on this forum who write good english and speak on middle eastern affairs regularly are Americans and Israelis arguing for Israel.

If there is a specific case of injustice that is relevant Id love to hear of it.

The only people who seem to be mentioning and therefore I assume defending Saudi Arabia is Dutch. Perhaps you can explain where he is coming from?

What is this thing?

Is there some argument to be had about this thing or is it just that you think that because injustice exists elsewhere there is no reason to criticise Israel or Israeli cases so much?

Tell you what, you direct me to the thread about some injustice somewhere you think I should weigh in on more often than I do and I will. Mmmmkay?

By the way, why dont I see you on some thread about this other stuff? Is HBendor there too? Gilos? Tell us what you think.

Ah so there isnt but instead there is my post on this and these subjects?

So your argument is not that Israel is in the right, but that it is in the wrong in the same way others are in the wrong but makes a somewhat better job of it.

I would counter that in fact, Israel, with its western origins, its western education and western non tribal and often secular ways is far far superior to anything in its neighbourhood. Just like the UK has been in the world, and could be any time it wishes that makes it far far more dangerous and given its political self awareness, far more evil.

The case of Israel is not some run of mill arab dictator from a powerful tribe making a hash of beating down everyone so he can can have some more golden toilets like say Gaddafy.

Instead israel is a well organised, well connected to the west, well educated system of land theft for a certain ethnicity. This injustice is planned to last forever, not just for however long some silly dynasty lasts.

The fact that people like you try to deny this and play it down is the true meaning of deception and outright ethno centric bigotry.

I have already corrected people here on the differences and nuances on Israel far more against my own side than you ever against your side - so I dont think I will be doing your bidding any time soon - thats fair we can both agree.

But feel free to detail instead what exactly is going on in Israel if its not South African apartheid, like Ive said.

Yes yes, orgy of wiping out, murder and jihad etc the usual hyperbolic rubbish - feel free to detail instead what exactly is going on in Israel if its not South African apartheid, like Ive said.

Thats a supposition. Their brethren across the river Jordan have been at peace with Israel for some time and enjoy good relations across the world so I doubt thats the case. And

Yet you havent called for an immediate and unconditional end to settlement building. Hmmm Not really on their side after all.

 

Sorry but the you didnt make reference to their leadership, now you do, how convenient.

You seem to be arguing that the Palestinians should have either learned to strike back effectively or give Israelis whatever they want.

LOL, you dont have a clue do you? What happened to the settlements in the Sinai? Still there eh? Where are the settlements in Gaza? Still there?

LOL, instead of justifying you simply tell us the Palestinians should have fought better right? Lame as can be. Tell it to the Vietnamese, who never won a land battle against the US yet regained their country in the end.

Lets be clear, you dont have any more historical knowedge than me in any area you can think of. So just cut it out and get down to it.

Corrupt and inept leadership exists on both sides, thats why its a silly argument. Its the principles that count.

Israel can hand over territories or keep them, whatever, as long as it doesnt build and settle on them. Thats theft.

Well indeed conflicts are messy affairs, the longer the messier. From I point of view I cant get away from the fact that the arabs here did not start this one.

Despite my barbs Ive enjoyed your posts and find them well thought in the main.

 

By saying Jews are banning all kinds of goods for Gaza, is portraying the truth as it is. I didn't say all Jews are doing that, non the less it's a Jewish thing. It aint a German thing thats going on.

What you are doing is trashing the truth, and so lying in order to make a personal attack.

 

It's a blockade placed so they can't attack. But instead of that, the Jews banned A4 paper, crayons, chocolate, toiletpaper, clothing, sheets, blankets, shoes etc etc and we all know that has nothing to do with preventing of being attacked. That has everything to do that the homeland of the Jew are collectively punishing Arabs. It's a war crime. Rather serious.

The fact still is that they can't make an economy work, and rebuild something, when their are occupied and banned from importing anything for such a goal. Hence...Dershowitz is an idiot and I'll be with Jimmy Carter.

 

Yes really and you know it as only two hundred thousand had left by the time the Arab League declared war the rest left after.

No need. Since it is so common why bring it up at all. Sort of like me going on and on about how Palestinians are so racist when in fact all peoples in the area are.

I wish to talk about the ethnic cleansing that Palestinians wish to carry out on all Jews in the Levant but we always seem to get side tracked somehow. Perhaps we may speak of this murderous official policy the Palestinians have and how Israel can best protect themselves against these thugs.

No. My point is that it is so common in western and eastern nations that it is not even worth brining up as a meaningful point when Israel, unlike all the others mentioned is at war against those who would ethnically cleanse their entire peoples in an orgy of violence not seen since the Holocaust.

And thank goodness otherwise they would have been ethnically cleansed withghundreds of thousands of their people dead.

That’s right and, they are at war with those who are hence more extreme measures need be taken than simply asking politely to leave them alone.

Please specify the land that Israel has annexed that belonged to the Palestinians otherwise leave the canards in the box thanks.

No need, you just agreed it is not.

The official charter of Palestine states that liberation shall only come through violence. You know, death, murder and what Hamas who controls half the Palestinian population specifies as Jihad.

Abbas is a Holocaust revisionist and his official policy is to deny Israel's right to exist calling it illegal, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem says the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is an accurate book, the PA has a death sentence on anybody who sells land to Jews, Hamas kills those who collaborate with Jews or are even suspected of doing so as well as those who sided with the PA at one time and, have as the centerpiece of their official policy incitements from the Koran stating to kill the Jews so I see no hope for you to be able to prove that racism is not rampant in Palestine. I’m quite sure some others here would be able to post reams and reams on anti Jew television snips from Al Asqa to boot.

"10,000 Black Palestinians Struggle with Racism in Gaza"

Palestinian problem: anti-Jewish racism

Racism in the Palestinian territories

There is a reason for that which is that the settlements are not the underlyng problem as the official policy of the Palestinians has, since May 15 1948 always been to obliterate Israel and, checking my watch, that was a heck of a long time prior to the first settlement hence, the settlements have nothing to do with the problem other than the fact it angers the Palestinians who, have always had the violent destruction of Israel as their first, last and only official goal in this equation.

In truth, it could actually be seen by some as a good thing the settlements are there as without them the Palestinians would feel no need to ever come to the negotiating table and remain forever engaged in a hateful and useless war against an enemy they cannot win against.

 

Ah right. Only two hundred thousand and because it was only 200,000 there was no need to intervene right? Like the West did in bosnia And the rest left afterwards. Who was actually going to protect those people? You? Your great grandaddy ?

Nope.

Indeed. It's common in the entire region. Be it Palestinians or Israelis or anyone else. Here you are taking part in the whole mess and encouraging your sides racism mostly posting about how Israel is great and bashing the Palestinians who are having their land taken. Who don't have an army to protect them and who have nowhere to go.

In fact in the midst of all this racism and ethnic strife you recommend their unconditional surrender. Yet you whine about other people's having the audacity to have a different view.
Lol

Interesting. Yet you haven't made a thread about it lately have you? I wonder why; perhaps it's really because you don't really give a toss about Israeli security and just want to bash Arabs into unconditional surrender.

But fair enough. Let's pretend for a second your genuine.
Israel can protect itself by building a nice big high wall on the green line and staying behind it while lifting the control on Gazan space and imposing a final agreement along the 67 lines.

Firstly it's not so common.

The West gave up its empire. It's not expanded it for over a century.

The West has fought for all races and at times righted the wrongs done as best as anyone can.

And Israel is not at war against any such thing. Hamas cannot do any such thing neither can the PA. And their agenda has never been to kill every jew. If it were so they would have done alot more. This apocalyptic rhetoric is a lie meant to further a right wing agenda.
Israel does not see itself as on the verge of destruction. In fact it grows and builds it's private sector economy and it's housing schemes every year. It is not building large bunkers for its population nor any large boats. In fact it's creating trade relations across the world. It's not even funding a large increase in its conventional forces.

Indeed. Much like Nazi Germany or the British empire it was not its moral character and desire to get along that was making it unpopular or successful. By organisation, effective firepower and ethnic cleansing it was able to create a beachhead and invade the rest of the country from the urban centres. It started a war and blamed everyone else for trying to stop it. Much like you do.

As above. They're not at war with anyone but Hamas. But no. Self defence is reasonable. Bulldozers and new housing schemes are not; that's evil.

East Jerusalem. Let's mention the golan too. And the settlements it hopes to keep.
Should we perhaps mention the extra territory it took in 1948 that it lives on now and therefore is annexed?
The rest were intended annexations that luckily Palestinian and Arab determination encouraged them to leave.

So what is it?

Lol. Liberation does only come through violence. The only people who managed without it was Ghandi vs the British. Doesn't mean mass murder is on the agenda.

Lol. Bluff and bluster. Rhetoric is not the cause of the conflict. And bibi tells everyone that the grand Mufti inspired the Holocaust and declares that there'll be no Palestinian state on his watch.
If you want Jews to be allowed to buy land in the West Bank then just get them to stop taking it with tanks.
And Jordan has been at peace with Israel for twenty plus years. So your threat rhetoric is total bull.

Israel and Zionism is by definition an invasion. One that Palestinians have long accepted. But that doesn't mean that stopping Israel wasn't and just and moral goal. Just like the Russians stopped the Whermact and the German settlers behind them.

Indeed check your watch and your books. Settlements were always a problem. The first ones after 1948 were throughout the land that Israel had just kicked 700000 people off before moving into their houses or bulldozing some 400 villages and building new settlements on.

Interesting but not historically accurate. The Palestinian population was quiescent in the twenty years after 67 despite the settlement building. When it found that not only were it's teachers, lawyers, union leaders being arrested for calling for protest and strike action but that Israel had decided to further expand itself into their lands did they start the first intifada.

It was only at that point that Israel even recognized that there was anyone to negotiate with. Up until that point it recognised no government whatsoever and as I said simply arrested anyone who spoke up in ways it didn't like.
It was not settlements but resistance that started talks.

 

Nope no war crime there. Blockades are an accepted war time practice. Denying war materiel is the primary objective, but making life uncomfortable for those being blockaded is a secondary one. Ever heard of siege warfare?

Oh? So when the gazans destroyed the Israeli settler infrastructure left behind, that was trying to make their economy work? Granted they can't do squat these days since foreign capital isn't available and any money coming in is Charity with a considerable amount getting skimmed by corrupt Palestinian officials.

They can't develop their tourist industry because who the hell wants to visit Gaza? They may have a shot at oil development but that also requires foreign capital which given the political instablity of the Palestinian people themselves is moot.

But then again, without PEACE, the Palestinians will NEVER become self sufficient.

 

Oh, so the actions of leadership has no impact on the fate and condition of the people? Now thats a convenient deflection.

I stated very clearly that BOTH sides must compromise and sacrifice some of their most closely held positions in order for both peace and the establishment of a viable palestinian state. apparently you ignore such statements.

OH LOOK, the sinai settlements were exchanged for PEACE. The Gaza settlements were removed due to the "Sharon Epiphany" and lack of return. Unfortunately, all that it did was prompt a palestinian civil war and established Hamas in Gaza. Seems even unilateral "positive" action by the Israelis creates palestinian problems.

Meanwhile settlement expansion continues apace in the WB.

No, the ARABS should have fought better. Afterall in the battle of the nine armies it was 8 against 1, with the 1 winning.
Although the Jordanians under their British commander did manage to hold unto most of Jerusalem.

Corruption can be found everywhere - we aren't talking about everywhere, we are talking specifically about the Palestinians. However, considering the history of the palestinian people and especially their leadership over the past 70 years or so, their leadership has consistently failed to advance the welfare of the people. Even what they "won" in OSLO was screwed up. Of course the Israelis didn't help matters, but in the end it was the Palestinian leaderships internal political issues and power struggles that led them derail their side of the process.

I agree that the settlements are illegal and an enormous barrier to peace. Such facts on the ground are hard to overcome, but from the Palestinian perspective there is going to have to be some tradeoffs - the "land for peace" refrain.

Or perhaps you didn't notice that the WB and gaza do not have a sovereign physical connection to facilitate trade, commerce and free travel.

I wonder about your "starting this one". Until the arab riots of the 20s, stirred up by false accusations, there was peace. In fact the arabs welcomed jewish capital until Muslim fatwa's began to appear in the early 30's banning sale of land to jews. (not just in palestine). That action lit a few fires. yes, immigration of jews into Palestine was the "problem" for the arabs living there since the jews brought a western work ethic, money and new methods and technologies, disrupting their society.

Maybe the Palestinians should have built a wall to keep out all those nasty jewish "illegal Immigrants".?

 

I strongly agree with your comments particularly these:

" I stated very clearly that BOTH sides must compromise and sacrifice some of their most closely held positions in order for both peace and the establishment of a viable palestinian state. apparently you ignore such statements."

"I agree that the settlements are illegal and an enormous barrier to peace. Such facts on the ground are hard to overcome, but from the Palestinian perspective there is going to have to be some tradeoffs - the "land for peace" refrain."

I have no confidence in Hamas or the PA at this time.

It may be there are Palestinians willing to abandon terrorism and try another approach but at this time I just do not know
where they are or if they can dare admit they exist.

I personally think Netanyahu is very pragmatic and not as extreme as some depict him but learned from what happened to Rabin
to keep his true negotiation positions quiet.

The PA is waiting for Abbas to die. I fear it could be an opportunity for an extremist to emerge but I hope
a moderate could emerge.

Bottom line is, the future is as close as tomorrow but as far away as its always been in the ME.

The direction of the winds is impossible to read in the ME unless you are a Beduin and they
consider everyone in the ME mad for trying to build fiefdoms in the desert.

They say quick as you build something the wind will blow it down unless you learn to live
within your means and keep your habitat mobile and essential.

Al the peoples of the desert seem to have lost that message in the drone of war.





Or perhaps you didn't notice that the WB and gaza do not have a sovereign physical connection to facilitate trade, commerce and free travel.

 

Your Post comes immediately after one of mine in which I was accused of choosing a rather nefarious Username that was an acronym for an obscure, Russian missile program as a way of my, somehow, secretly communicating my support for the use of Hamas' rockets on Israelis or some similar, twisted accusation far from the truth.

While I am rarely surprised at the extent to which apologists for Israel's Ethnic Cleansing will go to insult, defame or slander opponents of Israel's Ethnic Cleansing agenda, I hadn't thought of the thought process behind the accusation as either "psychotic" or "delusional" at the time while such may certainly be the case.

I'm not sure that assessing certain Posters Re: the Mid East / Israel as "psychotic" or "delusional" is as important as focusing on the topic at hand which is, in other words, to Debate.

What is unique about debating issues relating to the Mid East & Israel's critical roll in its events is the thriving existence of Israel's Hasbara propaganda network that trains apologists for Israel's Right Wing element, its Ethnic Cleansing agenda, illegal expansionism, criminal chemical weapons / WMD program to:

".....give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion."[1]

I certainly don't think that it's possible to diagnose an individual as "psychotic" or "delusional" when thousands of "Israel advocates" are trained to be obtuse, evasive, insulting and use any ploy but to engage in a factual exchange when the facts behind blatant atrocities committed by the Israeli government & its fanatical Right Wing extremists are so strongly irrefutable.

I have raised the issue of Israel's Ethnic Cleansing agenda and supported it with documented scientific & medical incidents & studies. I have also made it clear that many of Israel's ethical & courageous individuals, scientists & organizations oppose the use of N.D.U., D.U., Genotoxic ordinance, D.I.M.E. bombs, White Phosphorus munitions etc etc for humanitarian reasons.

It is a fact that these WMD contaminants deployed by IDF etc on the Palestinian civilians are horrific, genocidal elements intended to sterilize, cause birth deaths, deformities, inflict terminal cancers & Ethnically Cleanse as effectively as any poison gas or agent used in previous genocidal undertakings.

Ironically, these terminal contaminants deployed by IDF infect, soil, ground water, sea water & spread via air borne dust to Israel itself.

While many Posters are unaware of the deployment of these WMDs, their effects & the degree to which they spread, those apologists for their genocidal use have yet to submit a rational, On-Topic, & direct refutation.

I think that it may be accurate to suggest that support or defense of IDF's deployment of N.D.U., D.U., Genotoxic ordinance, D.I.M.E. bombs, White Phosphorus munitions etc after learning of their effects on humans you either love or hate is, indeed "psychotic" or "delusional".

Even though the purpose of our participation in this Forum is to Debate the issues, it seems clear that when anyone is so consumed with hate that they are willing to sacrifice their own next generation in order to exterminate other men, women & children, there is something clearly amiss in their thought process whether it is "psychotic" or "delusional" or some other malady.









[1] “Zionism and the art of propaganda: downplaying rationality”
http://www.thepeoplesvoice.org/TPV3/Voices.php/2009/03/30/zionism-and-the-art-of-propaganda-downpl

EXCERPTS: "Propaganda is used by those who want to communicate in ways that engage the emotions, and downplay rationality, in an attempt to promote a certain message. To effectively present Israel to the public, and to counter anti-Israel messages, it is necessary to understand propaganda devices." -Hasbara Handbook: Promoting Israel on Campus

Point Scoring
Point scoring is a method of communication that prioritises making certain points favourable to the speaker, and attacking opponents of the speaker by trying to undermine their positions. Point scoring communication ought to give the appearance of rational debate, whilst avoiding genuine discussion.

How To Score Points Whilst Avoiding Debate
Central to point scoring is the ability to disguise point scoring by giving the impression of genuine debate. Audience members can be alienated by undisguised attacks, so all point scoring needs to be disguised. To disguise point scoring, comments need to seem to be logical, and to follow from what was said before.”CONTINUED

_______________

Re: N.D.U., D.U., Genotoxic ordinance, D.I.M.E. bombs, White Phosphorus munitions etc:


- “Nanotechnology and the International Law of Weaponry: Towards International Regulation of Nano-Weapons”
http://www.jlisjournal.org/content/NasuFaunce20.1.pdf



- “The DIME Bomb: Yet another genotoxic weapon, Part III”
https://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=5748
EXCERPT “ Since early July, Israeli forces have been using a new weapon in the Gaza Strip that inflicts strange and deadly wounds....
.......DU & NDU bombs are converted to micron-sized particles that sicken... and murder the next generation in the womb.”CONTINUED




- “Israel Used Depleted Uranium Munitions During Gaza Offensive”
http://www.richardsilverstein.com/2...eted-uranium-munitions-during-gaza-offensive/
“Tikun Olam “
EXCERPT “Here are some of their health effects:
Normal functioning of the kidney, brain, liver, heart, and numerous other systems can be affected by uranium exposure, because in addition to being weakly radioactive, uranium is a toxic metal.(*) DU is less toxic than other heavy metals such as arsenic and mercury.[65] It is weakly radioactive but remains radioactive because of its long half-life.
…British Army doctors warned the British…Ministry of Defence that exposure to depleted uranium increased the risk of developing lung, lymph and brain cancer, and recommended a series of safety precautions.
This seems perfectly in synch with the typical practice of the IDF to exploit whatever weapons appear convenient and effective, no matter how controversial or even illegal their use might be, especially against a largely civilian population.(*) This holds true for cluster bombs, white phosphorus and DIME, all of which Israel has employed during attacks on civilian areas of Lebanon and Gaza.”CONTINUED



- “CONSEQUENCES OF ISRAELI WEAPONS TESTING ON GAZA”
http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspot.com/2011/03/consequences-of-israeli-weapons-testing.html




- &#65532;Israel's chemical arsenal under new scrutiny”
http://www.cjpmo.org/MediaHeadlines...vanceID=0&CountryID=168&OutletID=0&AuthorID=0
EXCERPT "More recently, Israel's repeated attacks on Gaza have fuelled claims that it is using Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) munitions, an experimental weapon not yet covered by international treaties. Its blast causes severe internal damage to victims and leaves traces of carcinogenic metals such as tungsten in the bodies of those who survive. In winter 2008-09, Israel was also widely criticised for using white phosphorus in built-up areas of Gaza." CONTINUED

 

9 armies? Jordan, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon for a little while.. and Iraq...........

The Jewish terror gangs were formed by 1922 and the first of the Palestinians to organize against in the influx of European Jews were Arab Jews .. they were soon joined by Christians Palestinians and only later by the Muslims.

 

The only difference is that this is the Land of the Jews and we are in control here and the Arabs are not... When I was younger I welcomed an Arab ALL OUT attack to finish them once and for all... To day I have not changed... They have to move out of the Jewish State or move to Canada... maybe your cold weather will restrain them a bit.

 

Fascinating that you think one should focus in the actions of Arab leaders. I must ask why? To what end? You think they should just get new leaders? Shouldn't everyone everywhere where matters are suboptimal?

Not exactly a new thought is it? Compromise. Yet here we get Zionists here over and over insisting ask the Land is Jewish. So why do point at Arab leaders when you read before you this wilful intransigence and greed?

Politics is messy. Israel decided some time ago that Hamas cannot be negotiated with so when they took over after winning the election Israel imposed severe restrictions and thus caused years of needless conflict. Israel expects that all its enemies agree to Israeli aims and historical narrative.

Indeed and will do so with the help of the hasbara in this forum don't you agree?

Lol. The israelis were not outnumbered in the field. They had short supply lines and central organisation.

The Jordanians had British training and leadership.

Rubbish the Palestinians live better than most anywhere.

What compromise are you thinking of that they have not given?

Indeed they did. Like anyone they always welcomed something worthwhile. But you wouldn't welcome Zionism would you? Who ever heard of such a thing?

The question is Jonsa would they have been wrong to do so? Perhaps you can have a go at that one. ..

 

Move them out in cattle cars perhaps.

 

You ask why? History cannot be denied and Palestinian leadership has led the palestinian people to their current plight. And yes, when leadership is "suboptimal" the people should choose new leadership, not the geriatric crowd currently ruling Palestine.

The ultra zionists around here are as intransigent as any Islamist and even promote inhumanity towards palestinians. Gee, imagine the extremes of each side essentially having the same objectives - with each side targetting the other.

Again, I point to arab leadership because in the end, it is their ineptitude and corruption, more than the will of the palestinian people that has perpetuated the clustermuck. That has fostered a culture of hatred and glorification of murderers.

.

I guess you didn't notice that Hamas has from day one, called for the destruction of Israel and the "liberation of all of historic palestine". Like you can negotiate with an enemy sworn to destroy you. And only idiots think expect all enemies should agree with their aims and narrative and last time I looked the Israelis might be many things, but they sure as hell ain't idiots.

No, I don't as a matter of fact. All they can do is parrot justifications. None of that facilitates internal Israeli policy.

Read a history book some time. The Israelis were grossly outnumbered by the 8 other armies they confronted. The fact that they were better organized and had shorter supply lines was a compensatory advantage, but not a decisive one. What was decisive was the will and fighting spirit of the Israelis.

As I stated.

Huh? You appear to have a facility for rubbish.

Right of return, non-militarization, no land swaps for peace, return to 48 green line, for a few.

Everybody heard such a thing, since it is historically documented.

No not wrong at all. Except given the circumstances it would have been a stupid move that would have not accomplished anything. Unlike the Israeli wall which, while odious has proven the efficacy of such a structure.

 

Yes 9 armies, You forgot the Saudi force and the Yemeni force and the Arab liberation army. Yes those jewish gangs formed after the Arab riots and the failure of the British occupiers to protect the jews. Or did that factoid escape you?

 

Pretty much as it was an internal matter in tit for tat violence so why on earth would you feel that the rest of the world get involved I wonder.

Pretty much so it's not even worth bringing up.

Where?

Where?

Where?

Hardly. Recommended they make peace.

LOL. You haven't hit one fact yet.

Nope. It's a non point as everybody in this sorrid tale is racist to some degree so we may as well listen to you post about how the Israelis are using oxygen at an alarming rate and then when I say the Palestinians do as well you say something like 'Well Israel is a Western nation so we shouldn't talk about the Palestinians.'

They could but since they didn't declare the war in the first place nor have the destruction of the enemy as their official policy why should they use their own land to protect themselves against an avowed enemy with their destruction as their official policy when they can use the perpetrators?

I listed Russia, US, UK, India, Australia, Germany and a few others which I got from this link and also provided examples of Arab nations that are quite racist so please expound.

And when Israel is at peace I'm sure they will do the same.

Really? So they may as well make peace then.

They don't, and there's a good reason why - because they're still at war.

Of course they don't as they have their act together however, what they feel and what that reality is certainly doesn't affect the enemy who still has their destruction as their official policy.

LOL so now Israel infiltrated the Arab League and held a gun to their heads and forced them to declare war on themselves.

Stop it you're killing me!

""The Palestinian National Charter: Resolutions of the Palestine National Council July 1-17, 1968

Article 2:

Palestine, with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit.

Article 9:

Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.

Article 9:

Armed struggle is the only way to liberate Palestine.""

When was this Palestinian land? Seems they didn't accept UNGA 181 until 2012 and, did it without making peace with Israel so why on earth would Israel give anything to an enemy still at war with them?

Run of the mill racism like in any other society that has minorities.

Liberation from an enemy whom you declared an enemy is not liberation when all they have to do is make peace.

Side note, Gandhi used violence in a unique way as do the Palestinians by setting his own people up to be beaten to a pulp and reap the PR rewards. That's one of the reasons why he never won the Nobel Peace Prize.

Those were examples of Racism. Nice try to deflect though.

I looked it up in the dictionary and it didn't say that so please provide something to back your comment up with.

They weren't in 1948 when the Palestinians declared war on Israel along with the rest of the Arab League though so check your own watch.

Yes, the Palestinians never had guerillas like the Fatah in '65 and were all so peaceful.