Israel, Mired in Ideological Battles, Fights on Cultural Fronts

Jonsa · Mar 31, 2016

Grau said: ↑

"HOW TO BE A HASBARA TROLL"?

So, that's your "rebuttal"?

The German Zionist Federation WAS complicit in many ways with Germany's National Socialists in selling out Germany's non Zionist Jews in order to get their Zionist Colony in Palestine:

Zionist Collaboration With The(*)Nazis
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...cuments-zionist-collaboration-with-the-nazis/
EXCERPT the Zionists had a long history of shameless cooperation with the Nazis, especially after the dictator Adolph Hitler had came to power in 1933.
The Zionists were also in bed with the other members of what later became known as WWIIs Axis of Evil,

And to top it all off, the infamous Adolf Eichmann, had visited Palestine, in October, 1937, as the guest of the Zionists.

He also met, in Egypt, with Feivel Polkes, a Zionist operative, whom Eichmann described as a leading Haganah functionary. The chain-smoking Polkes was also on the Nazis payroll as an informer.  

Brenner isnt the first writer to address the mostly taboo subject of how the Zionist leadership cooperated with the Nazis.

Rolf Hilbergs seminal The Destruction of European Jews;

Hannah Arendts Eichmann in Jerusalem;

Ben Hechts Perfidy;

Edwin Blacks The Transfer Agreement;

Francis R. Nicosias The Third Reich and the Palestine Question;

Rudolf Vrba and Alan Bestics I Cannot Forgive;

and Rafael Medoffs The Deadening Silence: American Jews and the Holocaust, also dared, with varying public success.CONTINUED

The rest of your pathetic Post is just the same as others: Lots of evasion Re: D.U. genocide, a healthy dose of Name Calling and then some more Name Calling via junk slander from a Hasbara web site that is such blatant trash, you're too ashamed to post its true origin?

Again, I'll let rational readers who aren't name calling apologists for Ethnic Cleansing compare our respective Posts
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No, not how to be a hasbara troll, but how to be a jewhating holocaust revisionist troll. Of course those you appeal to can readily see that you follow the "how to's" rather faithfully.

The Haavara Agreement is well known. The initially successful program managed to get roughly 60,000 jews out of Germany, while the nazi scumbags managed to squeeze some $40 million out of them. Oh my - imagine those dastardly zionists actually implementing a plan to SAVE jews from nazi scumbags.

As for your list of books concerning Nazi/Zionist "cooperation" it might help if you actually read a few, since your implication is that it describes the lurid evil plans of genocidal zionists . Your pathetic attempts at some sort of equivalency between the Nazis and the zionists is blatantly obvious.

Your material is stale while your delivery is by blueprint. Yep rationals readers have more than enough to compare our respective posts.

Yetzerhara · Mar 31, 2016

Margot2 said: ↑

Your response is illogical and without basis. First of there is already a Palestinian state, Jordan. Secondly, there is room for another on the West Bank.

The Saudi proposal you referred to was flawed as I will explain but most importantly for you to suggest it was the only way to achieve peace is absurd.

The proposal you refer to from Crown Prince Abdullah claimed to offer Israel "normal relations" in exchange for a withdrawal to the 1967 borders and resolution of the Palestinian refugee issue but of course it was not that simple as much as you'd like to spin it as such.

When one read the proposal all it did was restate the continuing Arab interpretation of UN Resolution 242 since 1949.

Resolution 242 a syou are well aware does not define, stipulate, explain or even refer to what Israel was to do.

Anyone can read it. Its public record. All the resolution says is for Israel to withdraw from territories it took over in 1967.

Resolution 242 in fact states that every state has the right to live within "secure and recognizable boundaries," which all military analysts have understood to mean the pre1967 borders of Israel, the so called green-line, BUT with modifications to guarantee Israel' security from terrorist attacks.

The on-going position of the Palestinian Authority and Hamas is, they will never recognize a Jewish state, and will not disarm terrorists and it hasn't changed since Saudi Arabia's proposal in fact demanded Israel unilaterally withdraw to its 1967 borders BUT not disarm terrorists on their border.

In the Arab world, Israel is to withdraw to 1967 borders, never be recognized as a Jewish state and there would be no disarming of terrorists.

Then according to the proposal, Israel would take in ANY Muslim who claims to be a Palestinian with ZEO PROOF of Palestinian ancestry and take land from existing Israelis and give it to these individuals.

Then once the country became majority Muslim based on this open ended demand for repatriation it would then become a Sharia law state and unify with the rest of Palestine and Jordan in one caliphate.

Now you Margot can play and spin and pretend that is not what is proposed, but that is what the PA and Hamas claim is their peace offer, a chance for Israel to cease being Jewish and become a Muslim state, and until it does, no disarming of terrorists attacking it.

Go on read it. The Arab plan calls for Israel to withdraw specifically from the Golan Heights and the Israeli government has offered to do withdraw from most, if not all the Golan in exchange for a peace agreement; however, Syrian President Hafez Assad was never prepared to trade peace for the land. Assad's son, Bashar, who succeeded his father as president, and refused to negotiate at all with Israel.

So your out and out falsehood Israel rejected the plan and that is why it failed is blatantly dishonest.

The demand that Israel withdraw from "the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon" was done by Israel and the moment Israel left Lebanon and for that matter withdrew from Gaza, the very day of their final withdrawal Hamas from Gaza and Hezbollah began attacking them,

You Margot I now call out as stating falsehoods. It is public record that the UN concluded that Israel in fact completely fulfilled its obligation to withdraw from Lebanese territory and Hezbolllah, Lebanon and Syria said they would never under any circumstance disarm terrorists or negotiate with Israel.

Now this so called plan proposed the Palestinian Refugee problem which in fact the Arab League created by deliberately imprisoning Palestinians in camps was to be based on UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

You are well aware the relevant passage of that resolution says:

"refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbors should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which under principles of international law or in equity should be made good by Governments or authorities responsible. Instructs the Conciliation Commission to facilitate the repatriation, resettlement and economic and social rehabilitation of refugees and payment of compensation... (emphasis added)."

The emphasized words in the convention were placed there precisely because the UN recognized that Israel could not be expected to repatriate a hostile population that might endanger its security.

Only in your world Margot do you have the audacity to suggest it is a peace proposal for Israel to take in millions of Muslims hostile to it being a Jewish state.

Only in your selective, unilateral world is a peace solution ordering Israel to disband itself and become Muslim by majority and displace its existing citizens for incoming people claiming to be Palestinian but not required to prove they are.

You are well aware that proposal was a pile of one sided insulting crap. It ignored the reality that today's Israelis born there have no legal obligation to give up their homes and lands within 1967 Israel. It also ignored that there are descendants in Israel of the 900,000 Jews ethnically cleansed from Arab league nations after 1949, their crime-being Jews.

In your world and the world of your unilateral demands, those Jews have no rights to compensation. In your world the displacement of 450,000 Jews in 1949 allows anyone to claim they are descended from these people and automatic right to become Israeli and receive compensation but not one of the 900,000 Jews displaced by Arab regimes have a right to any compensation let alone the right to have moved to Israel.

Nothing in this proposal said anything other than the Arab world unilaterally demand Israel cease being a Jewish state, recognize only legal rights of displaced Muslims not Jews and strop existing Jews of their land and legal rights within 1967 Israel.

In fact the original TUN discussions on refugees had begun in the summer of 1948, before Israel had completed its military victory; consequently, the Arabs still believed they could win the war and allow the refugees to return triumphant. They still cling to this notion.

They have dominated the UN and even had the refugee definition changed to provide a right to Palestinian refugees no other refugee is allowed in the world and that is the designation that the offspring of displaced persons born outside Israel (the land of origin) have the same rights as actual displaced persons. No other refugee in the world has that right including the Jews who are descended from those Jews forced to flee Europe and Arab League nations.

The Arab world still demands that the United Nations assert the "right" of the "Palestinians" to return to their homes, and continue unwilling to accept anything less. In the Arab world and some of us Margot do understand its press and its popular sentiment are fully aware the pan Arab world still interprets Resolution 194 as granting anyone who wishes to identify as a Palestinian refugee the absolute right of repatriation.

The Saudi Plan was a farse. It simply said it would recognize Israel as a non Jewish state if it agreed to violate its own citizens rights, give citizenship to unlimited amounts of Muslims including giving them land from Israelis.

Right Margot, if only Israel had agreed to extinguish itself right? Spit it out. You know damn well that proposal would not and still does not accept Israel has the right to be Jewish and remain Jewish and it ignores the fact that the vast majority of people who call themselves Palestinian today are in fact descended from Muslims who were never displaced by Israel within the 1967 borders.

You are well aware in fact the majority of today's Palestinians are in fact descended from Muslims who displaced Palestinians.

In your world if a Jew came to Palestine they were and always will be a foreigner with no rights and are to be blamed for 450,000 people who chose not to remain in Israel and then were imprisoned by the Arab League who openly stated they imprisoned them as a reminder to the world to disband Israel.

Peace proposal. Right. It was a proposal Israel commit suicide internally.

This proposal ignores Jewish refugees and it ignores the fact Israel treats all the Muslims who chose to stay in Israel
with full legal rights. Unlike the remaining Jew of the Arab world, Muslims don't have to pay a yearly fee for not being Jewish.

In Sharia law nations Jews must pay an annual tax for not being Muslim. Unlike Muslim Israelis, Jews in Muslim countries are defined as infidel, dhimmi (second class with inferior legal rights) and khfir.

Go on Margot discuss how it is Muslim Israelis vote members into the Knesset, own land, are defended by over 125 human rights organizations, have freedom to stand up in the Knesset or write in the press they want Israel dismantled.

Explain how not one Jew has those rights in a Muslim country. Go on explain how Israel defines Arabic as an official language but in
Arab countries no Jew's Hebrew language is defined by the state as recognized.

Go on Margot explain what the medical benefits are for a Muslim Israeli compared to a Jew in a Muslim country.

Please explain how Israel already allowed thousands of Palestinian refugees to return on a humanitarian basis and as part of family reunification.

Please tell them Margot that Israel has already accepted 140,000 refugees just since the Oslo agreement of 1993.

The proposal you refer to was such a joke it didn't even define what "normal relations with Israel" meant.

in your world Margot and the world of Arabs which I have lived in, you feel you can dump at the feet of Israelis a list of unilateral demands with no reciprocity. Save it. Save the posturing. Jews don't bow to Muslims as much as it is engrained in your dhimmitude beliefs.

The fact you posed this agreement as the only way to have achieved peace is classic dhimmitude arrogance.

Get over it. Jews will not bow to you or any Arab with unilateral demands.

For peace to come about it starts with the Arab world getting over its inability to admit it couldn't wipe out the Jews of the Middle East and that they will not agree to cease exist as a nation.

You really want peace? Then enough with this crappola and pretending and posing and spinning. Its tiresome. Save the recycled scripts.

1. recognize the Jews whoe xist in their Jewish state of Israel and their being Israeli-no Margot they will not go poof;
2. disarm all terrorists
3. after 1 and 2 anything is possible and can be done to achieve peace including withdrawal from the West Bank.
4. The Arab League has a moral obligation to compensate the Palestinians for imprisoning them in refugee camps
5. the Arab League has a moral obligation to compensate all the Jews displaced from Arab League nations
6. Israel as part of any mutual peace deal will have to compensate certain Palestinians as well.

Get over it Margot. You will never accept a Jewish state of Israel.
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Israel, Mired in Ideological Battles, Fights on Cultural Fronts

Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

Yetzerhara Banned

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Israel, Mired in Ideological Battles, Fights on Cultural Fronts

Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

Yetzerhara Banned

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