Israel, Mired in Ideological Battles, Fights on Cultural Fronts

Collective punishment is a war crime. Sorry to burst your bubble on that one.
You can't use a blockade to deliberately starve people to death with the excuse that a blockade is a legal thing.
In the same way you can't use a blockade to apply collective punishment.

I answered your dumb question in my previous reply:
The fact still is that they can't make an economy work, and rebuild something, when their are occupied and banned from importing anything for such a goal. Hence...Dershowitz is an idiot and I'll be with Jimmy Carter.

 

Your response to "Jonsa's" traditionally "creative" interpretation of the facts while, brief, clearly captured the spirit of of the factually flawed nature of the Zionist narrative Re: the 1948 War.


Originally Posted by Jonsa
EXCERPT "No, the ARABS should have fought better. Afterall in the battle of the nine armies it was 8 against 1, with the 1 winning.
Although the Jordanians under their British commander did manage to hold unto most of Jerusalem."CONTINUED
Originally Posted by Jonsa

The "....nine armies..." were, in reality 5 Arab States who: ".... however, only sent an expeditionary force to Palestine, keeping the bulk of their army at home." [1]

In other words, there were clearly neither 8 nor even 5 united even slightly competently led "Arab Armies" sent against the Israelis


An additional reality that is anathema to Zionist myth makers in accounting for the "miraculous" achievements of the Zionist Colony in Palestine are the manifold contributions of the German State before, during and after WW 2. In addition to well trained Wehrmacht & Waffen SS veterans, IDF was comprised of Austrian, Russian, English & other experienced, European military veterans.

In the book: “Practical Soldiers: Israel’s Military Thought and Its Formative Factors” By Avi Kober, the author writes:

EXCERPT "Although the IDF has never consciously selected its commanders by their social group affiliation, during the State’s early years a hard core of the IDF commanders and staff officers were foreign language speakers of European origin, who were exposed to British, German, Austrian, or Russian military thought.
Some of them served in European armies prior to World War 2 or during that war....." CONTINUED

On page 58, he goes on to state:

“Once a regular army was established with the founding of the State of Israel, Prime Minister David ben Gurion encouraged the integration in the IDF of commanders who had military background of regular warfare after serving in the German, Austrian, British, Russian or American armies. It was, threfore, only natural for him to offer senior positions to Yohanan Ratner...., Fritz Eshet ( a German Army veteran).....” P 58; Ch 2.; CONTINUED

The IDF, then was not, then, especially particular in choosing those who lead & served in its ranks but managed to field over 90,000 well trained, well equipped soldiers from modern European armies while the Arabs only managed to field far fewer, inexperienced, poorly trained ( or untrained), demoralized, poorly led & poorly equipped soldiers.

Rather than a “God sent miracle :

“ The final outcome of the war was therefore not a miracle but a faithful reflection of the underlying military balance in the Palestine theatre. In this war, as in most wars, the stronger side prevailed.” [1]



Another part of the background behind IDF's later successes was the cozy relationship between Germany's Zionists and the Ruling German National Socialist government which blossomed into what was known as:

EXCERPT "The Transfer Agreement (which promoted the emigration of German Jews to Palestine) implemented in 1933 and abandoned at the beginning of WWII is an important example of the cooperation between Hitler's Germany and international Zionism.

Through this agreement, Hitler's Third Reich did more than any other government during the 1930's to support Jewish development in Palestine and further the Zionist goals”
CONTINUED. [2]

In spite of the deplorable plight of Germany's non Zionist Jews, the Zionist Colony continued to benefit during WW 2 through co-operation between the German Zionists & National Socialist rule by both the funding and training of what was the terrorist gang, Haganah & is currently IDF.
It is not a fact that is widely promoted that the nascent Israeli Army, Haganah, was trained by possibly one of Europe's WW 2 best trained fighting forces, the Waffen SS [3]

In addition to the funding & training received by Haganah by Germany's SS, 150,000 German Jews served in various branches of Germany's Armed Forces during WW 2. Among them were:

EXCERPT " Two field marshals,

Fifteen generals,

Two full generals,

Eight lieutenant generals,

Five major generals,(*)“commanding up to 100,000 troops.“

In approximately 20 cases, Jewish soldiers in the Nazi army were awarded(*)Germany’s highest military honor, the Knight’s Cross."CONTINUED [4]

While these high ranking, decorated & experienced European military men certainly did not all directly go on to serve in Israel’s military, they are examples of the well trained soldiers from all European armies that easily defeated “Jonsa’s” outnumbered & pathetic “8 armies.

The excellent article:
“Israel and the Arab Coalition in 1948”

goes into the salient details in which the various Arab leaders made secret alliances with the Israelis who exploited their divisions & the many ways in which the Arab leaders were more interested in their own personal or national interests rather than presenting a united, military Arab front of “8 armies” against the Israelis & the many experienced soldiers of different, European nationalities who comprised the IDF.

During the extensive fighting, the bloodshed, & the machinations, almost completely lost in this conflict was any interest in the Palestinian civilians who suffered so miserably at the hands of Zionist Terrorist Gangs & IDF up until today.

A closer look at this over mythologized conflict proves, once again, that:
"The first casualty in War is Truth"






[1] “Israel and the Arab Coalition in 1948”
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/Israel and the Arab Coalition in 19481.html


[2] “Nazi Support of Zionism”
http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/antisemitism/nazisupport.cf
EXCERPT “Zionism was supported by the German SS and Gestapo.
Hitler himself personally supported Zionism.
During the 1930's, in cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some 40 camps throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine.
As late as 1942 Zionists operated at least one of these officially authorized "Kibbutz" training camps over which flew the blue and white banner which would one day be adopted as the national flag of "Israel".CONTINUED


[3] “Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
http://www.henrymakow.com/israeli_haganah.html
EXCERPT “In his 1988 book "Blowback," Christopher Simpson says captured SS records documented a covert agreement between the SS and the Haganah, the forerunner of the Israeli Defense Force. They funded at least one Haganah commander. (*)
"Under the arrangement the Haganah was permitted to run training camps for Jewish youth inside Germany.
[Haganah Commander Feival] Polkes and the Haganah, in return, agreed to provide the SS with intelligence about British affairs in Palestine.
Haganah commander's sole source of income, moreover, was secret funds from the SS."(*)
European Jews were betrayed by their Zionist leaders. Zionists(*) collaborated in the holocaust(*) in order to buttress the case for a Jewish homeland. All other Jewish leadership had been suppressed by the Nazis.”CONTINUED


[4] Hitler’s Jewish Army”
EXCERPT : “150 000 Jews in Hitler’s(*)Army
http://counterpsyops.com/2013/02/14/150-000-jews-in-hitlers-army/
EXCERPT "Thousands of men of Jewish descent and hundreds of what the Nazis called ‘full Jews’ served in the German military with Adolf Hitler’s knowledge and approval.
Cambridge University researcher Bryan Rigg has traced the Jewish ancestry of more than 1,200 of Hitler’s soldiers,"CONTINUED

 

I agree that collective punishment is a crime, but Nobody was deliberately starved to death.

And a blockade is not categorized as collective punishment. It is a legitimate act of war.

As to the dumb answer you have provided, why is there a blockade in the first place? Are you aware of the economic metrics of the PA in the first few years of OSLO? Do you recall the circumstances of that moment of prosperity being blown up? I suggest you knock off the propaganda and start on history.

 

First, there were 7 arab nations and one "free army" that declared war in a coalition and ALL contributed troops and materiel to their effort. I do agree that the arab armies were for the most part incompetent and their command and control was laughable at times.

And imagine those dastardly jews having battlehardened ww2 veterans in their army. Perhaps you are unaware why the haganah was formed and how it was ready to field a well trained army on May 14/48.

Of course the thought of "NEVER AGAIN" wasn't much of a motivator for jews either, considering the "drive the jews into the sea" rhetoric that was constantly emanating from their declared mortal enemies.

Yes, in the end the zionists proved to be the more resolute, the smarter, ferocious, stronger while kicking serious butt and humiliating their Arab Muslim enemies.

Yet another example of arab leaderships' arrogance, incompetence and military inferiority. Its all the jews fault.

"The first casualty in War is Truth" And the above "standard" stormfront assassination attempt is ample proof.

Pity you guys can't get any new material.

 

I was waiting for you to post but since you didn't ask I am left wondering how on earth former SS Officers made it into the IDF. This is a story I'm sure Grau has a vast collection of stories about even though he seems to have absolutely no knowledge of the Nuremberg Laws.

Grau?

 

Grau's attempt to create a cconspiracy of Zionists in bed with Nazis is a recycling of articles he posts that have all been repudiated as false.

Interestingly though Mr. Abbas the so called moderate PA leader believes them. He wrote in his 1982 doctorate, that he not only doubts the existence of gas chambers and number of Jews perished, but that the Zionist movement secretly colluded with the Nazis and supported the genocide of the Jews of Europe.

In his book on his thesis, "The Other Side: The Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism" (Billsan Publising House, Ramallah, 2011), he stated these things, see if they sound familiar I am sure Grau agrees with them keeping in mind when Mr. Abbas wrote his thesis, he threw out numerous allegations, but never provided any information to coroborrate his opinions but hey he got his doctorate in Moscow, they weren't too fussy with asking he back up his opinions, lol:
The Zionist movement did not send any assistance, financial or otherwise, for the victims of Nazism and it did not allow any other side to provide any kind of aid. The Zionist movement concealed the information that came from within the ghetto walls and concentration camps, news that shed light on what was really happening. If it had to publish anything, it did so by questioning that information and diminishing its importance."



"Zionism adopted the Nazi selection principle, when it went to save Jews from the slaughter. It made itself the ultimate arbiter regarding Jewish life, deciding who deserves to live and who deserves to die."


"The Zionist movement did not make any effort to convince Western countries to take in the Jewish refugees escaping the horrors of the Holocaust. It even placed obstacles I the way of efforts made by Christian groups or by non-Zionist Jews or a number of countries that saw fit to find a solution to this humanitarian problem."


"All of this wasn't enough - the Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination."

The above shows a device like Grau's where people throw out accusations with zero proof. Not a shred of proof. The accusations are designed to turn all Jewish victims of the holocaust as liars for saying they are in a furtheer exercise to argue if the Jews came to Israel because of the holocaust and the holocaust is a lie, then Israel is based on a lie. and full of Nazi liars.

There are basic weaknesses in the argument to say it lightly including this:

1-each and every allegation of Zionist-Nazi collaboration has been exposed and repudiated with public record as being false;
2-Israelii Jews born in Israel are no more illegal than Australians-following the above ridiculous argument, if Israel is full of people descended from criminal liars than hey let's send Australians all of them back to the UK, now;
3-many Israels are descended from Arab and Felashie Jews who were expelled from Arab League countries-their crime-they were Jews and they were expelled because Israel was created showng the Arab League engaged in ethnic cleansing of Jews not because they were Zionist but because they were Jews.

Now there are literally thousands of web sites explaining how Zionists collaborated with Nazis which by the way makes one wonder, if Jews control the media, how does that happen.

In any event do we really need to repudiate these charges each time they are raised? Does silence to them ifer legitimacy? Is that the game, repeat the lie enough times so that no one responses and the sheer repeating of the lie and its volume of repetition over and over will create a legitimacy to it.

Certainly Dr. Goebbels thought so. It was one of his favourite techniques of propaganda-repeat a subjective allegation over and over he argued and it never need be proven, it takes on a life of itself. This technique he perfected is used today in almost every marketing and advertising campaign.

It was also brought over by Nazis to the Middle East to fuel anti semitism against Jews and after WW2 thousands of Nazis moved to Damascus, Syria to run their Ministry of Communications rebroadcasting these false accusations.

Therein lies the irony. In fact the accusations Jews collaborated with Nazis is an attempt not just to slur all Jews who underwent the holocaust and the creation of the state of Israel as a refuge for holocaust survivors, but is also designed to dettract from the fact that it was Syria, Egypt, Iraq that directlly allied with Hitler, created neo Nazi regimes and to this day stilll display the vestigates of the Nazi era. It also is designed to focus away from the fact that the Palestnian nationalist movement and its leader the Mullah of Jersalem in fact lived in Berlin as a guest of Hitler throughout WW2 in a stolen Jewish home broadcasting daily to Arabs to fight with Hitler and wipe out the world's Jews.

You won't of course ever hear Herr Grau. or Dr. Abbas discuss the Palestinian natinal and Arab connection to Nazism. Who them?

I would argue the Zionists are Nazis and helped Nazis slurs originate from 3 sources which I quite from: http://www.zionismontheweb.org/antizionism/ZionistNazis.htm as being:

" 1. Neo Nazis (who by the way usually hate Muslims as much as they do Jews)

For the far right, the goals of the comparison with Nazism in particular is often aiming to reduce the horror of Nazism as much as it is to vilify the Jews. As long as the Nazi Holocaust is a crime so abhorent that it is not up for "debate", neo-Nazis will find it hard to recuit and impossible to gain power and make a new Nazi state.

2, anti Jewish Muslim grouops

More alarming is when other minority groups like the British Muslim community (equaly disliked by the Neo-Nazis) fall into using the same Neo-Nazi arguments. An example is the boycott of Holocaust Memorial Day by the Muslim Council of Britain. The real reason behind it is to try reduce the "victim status" of the Jewish community so that attacks on them (or on Israel) are tolerated more by society at large. The same logic has been used by Muslim groups who insteado f supporting Jews when complaints are made about antisemitic acts instead try and undermine the complaints and insist that "they have it worse". When the conversation is not abstract but about a particular case the community is working to resolve these attitudes are abhorent and counter productive for all anti-racism campaigners.

3. extreme leftists

The last group that needs to be mentioned is the British left. While clearly against Nazism, neo-nazism and the far right in general, antisemitism on the left is often not acknowledged and is seen as an acceptable form of racism. To arrive at this point the left often borrow from arguments of the NEo-Nazi right, or borrow from the Muslim anti-Israel lobby who in term borrow from the Arab states propoganda which is itself often based on neo-Nazi is not actual Nazi propoganda."

 

I believe the need to revise and deny the holocaiust as a tool to demonize the state of Israel's existence is the clear agenda in Grau's posts and can be explained as follows:

I quote from: http://jcpa.org/article/holocaust-d...-the-european-far-left/#sthash.eT1KEo1g.dpuf;

" The collapse of traditional divisions between Right and Left and the political confusion engendered by 9/11 and subsequent events, have led to the growth of a political subculture that is home to the antiwar movement, antiglobalizers, radical street politics, and populist political leaders. The appetite within this amorphous movement for conspiracy theories and the instinctive mistrust of official accounts of contemporary and historical events has opened up a political space beyond the far Right in which questioning and denying the Holocaust is no longer the anathema it once was....

:The image of Israel as a perpetrator of “Nazi-lite” ethnic cleansing facilitates the role-reversal in Napier’s claim that “An accurate understanding of the Nazi Holocaust is essential to grasp modern Israeli savagery towards the Palestinian people.” In this version of Holocaust remembrance, history is not studied so as to understand Jewish suffering at the hands of European anti-Semitism. Instead it is the Palestinians who are the true victims of the Holocaust, are still suffering its consequences today, and to whom Europe owes its historic moral debt. This is particularly the case in Britain, which has no history of Nazi occupation and collaboration but instead carries the colonial guilt of the Balfour Declaration.

The claim that Zionists, having collaborated with Nazis in perpetrating the Holocaust, are now inflicting similar misery on the Palestinians, neatly solves the contradiction between the Left’s antifascism and its anti-Zionism. Reinterpreting the Holocaust as a Zionist crime is in itself a form of Holocaust denial, the purpose of which is to erase the link between the destruction of European Jewry and its rebirth in Israel.

This also profoundly affects attitudes toward Jews within parts of the Left. First, the notion that the Zionist movement could act as equal partners with Nazi Germany, at a time when ordinary Jews were at their most powerless and desperate, raises Zionism to a level of power and malevolence that traces a direct line to Protocols-style conspiracy theories. This has strong resonance in a political milieu that accepts conspiracy theories about Zionist or Jewish control of American foreign policy and the Iraq war.

Second, this determination to bracket together Zionism and Nazism has led to inevitable claims that their contemporary adherents, in the form of Israel and its supporters on the one hand, and neo-Nazis on the other, are in practical alliance. Thus the SPSC website gave these three reasons for the importance of their Holocaust Memorial Week events: “Open, ethnic cleansers now occupy senior positions in the nuclear-armed Israel government; Racist, extreme-right parties inspired by the Nazis are now growing across Europe; Political Zionism and extreme right-wing parties have usually cooperated against the left.”

 

Nope its not an internal matter its a regional matter, just as refugees and internal strife are always regional matters.

.

Nope, no other conflict created so many refugees in one go in the region and on a religious area of vital importance. Sorry.

Every time you post against the pro palestinians and dont post against the pro israelis.

The question is, where didnt you.

No in fact you recommended unconditional surrender.

You didnt recommend unconditional surrender?

LOL, nice try, you forget to mention the vast power differential between these two sides.

Irrelevant who declared war, when one side started a conflict and the other side reactsto the refugees created. And they had the destruction of Palestine as their declared policy and its replacement by a reconstituted Israel.

They should of course use their own land to protect themselves because thats a legal policy. Settling occupied territory is not.

Few countries settle their populations on enemy territory, nor do western nations promote discriminatory practices to innocent civilians of a certain ethnicity.

Settling occupied territory has nothing to do with making war.

They do in fact make peace, its Israel that doesnt. Israel may as well make peace. Theres nothing that can stop it, no humiliation no loss of territory and it can impose any internationally agreed peace it likes.

The enemy are irrelevant to Israeli policy. They could end settlements tommorrow and not suffer one bit in security terms while gaining everything.

LOL , no they simply created lots of refugees forcing local powers to act. Then blamed them for intervening.

LOL, irrelevant, theyve in fact been cooperating with the PA for years.

LOL, when wasnt it?

Israel isnt at war with the Palestinians, its been cooperating with them for years.

When you actually have ongoing laws and practices that discriminate on the basis of ethniciy thats not run of the mill racism.

LOL, it is liberation from a declared enemy. And it not on them to make peace. Its on Israel. Palestinians have already made the most moves.

BS sidenote, he encouraged civil disobedience indeed. No British personnel were hurt or supposed to be hurt by his actions. Your sidenote is as slimy as your entire outlook.

Oh good for you, you found examples of racism and then tell us that since racism exists on all sides Israel can do what it wants. LOL

Hundreds of thousands of people immigrating from Europe and setting up their own ethnocentric state. One that Palestinians have long accepted. But that doesn't mean that stopping Israel wasn't and just and moral goal. Just like the Russians stopped the Whermact and the German settlers behind them.

Of course they were, Israelis moved out from every urban centre they lived in and started bulldozing villages and moving into other peoples homes.

LOL, sure they had guerrillas, they also had doctors teachers and lawyers. It was twenty years later that the first intifada began.

 

You think if Stalin had lost the war due to poor tactics for example then he never should have tried to defend Russia?

You think the discussion should mainly thus be about his failures and not German war aims?

Why dont you point to the other side more since it has more power and had a greater ability to impose a lasting peace?

Why cant you negotiate with such an enemy?

Why are you on their side here so much? Why arent you on the good guys side?

Oh really? How many soldiers did each side field in battle?

LOL, you really think the Palestinians havent been using all that donor money to keep themselves afloat? Get real. The Israelis know it too, in fact they their cut too.


Right of return, non-militarization, no land swaps for peace, return to 48 green line, for a few.

You wouldnt welcome a local takeover of your town would you?

Do you think that if they had managed to keep Jewish immigrants out by violence, a wall, or anything else, that they would have been right to do so?

 

Make up your mind.

One minute you're whining the same, old, tiresome "NEVER AGAIN" Holocaust® Industry fodder & then your whining about the proven training, funding & participation of Waffen SS & Wehrmacht Veterans who "....proved to be the more resolute, the smarter, ferocious, stronger while kicking serious butt....." for you.

I've already documented the critical German contribution in the establishment of the Zionist state from Waffen SS funding & training before & during WW 2 as the Zionists spied on & fought against the British.

After WW 2, the Germans built Israel: An entire RailRoad network, 3 Power Plants & grid, 60+ ships etc etc.

Meanwhile, Zionist Terrorist Gangs were free to carry out their genocidal Plan Dalet, massacre Palestine's native residents, destroy and / or steal their homes

Currently, the US bankrolls your parasitic, pariah "State" while you continue to systematically exterminate & sterilize Palestinians via Chemical, D.U., N.D.U. Genotoxic ordinance & D.I.M.E. bombs:


“CONSEQUENCES OF ISRAELI WEAPONS TESTING ON GAZA”
http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspot.com/2011/03/consequences-of-israeli-weapons-testing.html


EXCERPTS

"---- DU contamination is irreversible and the effect is prolonged for many generations. A contaminated man will pass it to his spouse, who will then pass it to her child and that leads to his or her child and it goes on and on. The most calamitous aspect of DU contamination is the birth of stillborn or disfigured babies.


--- Depleted uranium accumulation has been recorded in the bone, kidney, reproductive system, brain and lung. It is carcinogenic, toxic to the kidneys, damaging to cellular DNA and causes malformations to an embryo or foetus.

_ _ _ _

“The DIME Bomb: Yet another genotoxic weapon, Part III”
https://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=5748
EXCERPT “ Since early July, Israeli forces have been using a new weapon in the Gaza Strip that inflicts strange and deadly wounds....
.......DU & NDU bombs are converted to micron-sized particles that sicken and kill and murder the next generation in the womb.”CONTINUED

_ _ _ _ _ _

So much for: "NEVER AGAIN"

 

this is so tiresome. Its the same ol' bullcrap regurgitated ad nauseum by the "next wave" of holocaust revisionists and jew haters. The agreement is well known as are number, organization, operations and aims of those "training camps" which most definitely were not Waffen SS training camps, your use of the standard denier unsubstantiated accusations to the contrary.

By the way since DU ammo and shielding have been used extensively by the US military, here's what the Dept of Veteran Affairs has to say on the subject:

http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/depleted_uranium/

"Genotoxic weapon"???!!!!!! What utter and complete nonsense. This century's blood libel, I guess.

 

What an absurd strawman.

No lasting peace can be "imposed". Without trust, without commitment, without compromise, there can be no peace treaty that results in the establishment of a Palestinian state along side Israel living side by side in peaceful economic harmony and spiritual tolerance.

Oh you can, as long as the pre-requisite for such negotiations is the complete repudiation of their principle aim of the liberation of all of historic palestine, which on has to admit is quite a good euphamism for the destruction of Israel. Until such, there really isn't much point, is there?

How many times do I have to tell you, there are no good guys in this clustermuck. I support Israel's existence as the jewish nation. I also believe the Palestinians need to get over their obsession with Al Nakba and figure a way forward to fulfill their national aspirations free of "belligerent military occupation". But that isn't really what the Palestinians nor their arab brothers want, is it? Methinks they have always had the em-pha-sis on the wrong syl -la-ble.

By the end of the war every able bodied Israeli was essentially in their army. No so for the arabs in the end the arabs were outnumbered

Huh? was the left fielder bored today?

Depends on who the current crop of thugs in charge were.

Didn't say anything about their right to attempt to control their own immigration, but alack and alas, the natives were simply not in control so your point is rather moot.
Or did you miss that little historical bon mot.

 

[/QUOTE]

There can't be a Palestinian state.. Israel has built up the West Bank settlements to such and extent that there is no room for a Palestinian state.. That ship has sailed.

The Israelis refused the Saudi Peace Initiative, so there's really nothing left but continued ethnic cleansing.. Drive them off the land , destroy their homes and olive groves and recruit more settlers.

 

Then they should not have attempted to destroy Israel in resolving this matter. War should have been the last choice, not the first.

So because there are some Palestinian refugees that means Palestinians get to be racists without anybody blaming them yet the moment an Israeli is slightly racist they are to be chastitized.

Actually I have never bothered to call Palestinians racists until you began saying that Israelis are just that and singling them out as if they are the only people in the world who could ever be racists.

I don’t recall ever saying Israel is great. That’s why I asked you to be a bit specific. Unless of course you are lying again like the time you said I called ‘everybody’ an anti-Semitic but couldn’t pony up with me calling anybody anything.

So, show me ten or so quotes from my last ten posts where I said Israel is great, fantastic, excellent, really really really good or, just plain ‘fabooo’ so you don’t come off like one who is lying.

Oh, and show ten quotes from the past ten posts where I bashed Paletinians while you’re at it. If you can’t, we can surmise that you were lying and that many posts do not contain these things.

Lying again. The sign of a person who cannot debate honestly. I stated;

“”I have continually recommended that they rescind their declaration of war, strike the violent destruction of Israel from their charters and sue for peace”” ………….


“”…….even at the cost of unconditional surrender.””

I don’t, nor have I ever recommended they surrender unconditionally but rather rescind their hateful declaration and policy towards Israel. Unconditional surrender was the cost if they had no other options to make peace and, I never recommended they do that rather be prepared to pay that price if they had to as it would be preferable to what they are experiencing now. So IOWs unconditional surrender is the cost, not the action recommended.

What on earth does power have to do with racism? Surely you’re not going to make the argument that poor nations are less or more racist than more well off nations in which case, please start another thread as that would require substantial stats to back your contentions (whatever they might be) up with and right now, you can’t even back up me saying how great Israel is in the past ten posts with quotes.

Strange, here is the portion of the Israeli Declaration of Independence which addresses their neighbors and it says nothing of the sort.

“”WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.””

They could but, nothing wrong or illegal in war about occupying and denying the enemy use of territory to attack from and, declaring war and making the violent destruction of your neighbor is a far greater crime than settling on land that was under occupation anyhow.

And few countries are involved in a war of this sort. Your point is what?

True. It has nothing to do with making peace either – providing the Palestinians actually want peace.

I see. Please provide the peace treaty that the PA, as representatives of the Palestinians of Gaza and the West Bank presented to Israel after the last Gaza War.

Maybe and maybe not but first thing that has to happen is for the Palestinians to agree to peace as nobody is going to negotiate with somebody who only wants some land and will simply resume their attacks once they get what they want.

LOL you forgot that the ‘intervening’ called for Israel’s destruction which sort of makes your red herring just that.

I can tell. That’s why rockets are fired from Gaza so often.

Not until 2012. Unless you’re going to call Abbas a liar when he said in 2012;

“”The General Assembly is called upon today to issue a birth certificate of the reality of the State of Palestine.””

LOL not according to Abbas who in the same speech to the UN in 2012 said;

“”We have not heard one word from any Israeli official expressing any sincere concern to save the peace process.””

Like Jews not being allowed to buy land and those who sell to them are to be put to death. Yes, I’ll say it’s not!

Yes, they still have the violent destruction of Israel as their official policy but they’ve made progress LOL

[quoteBS sidenote, he encouraged civil disobedience indeed. No British personnel were hurt or supposed to be hurt by his actions. Your sidenote is as slimy as your entire outlook. [/quote]

He sent his own people to be beat to a pulp in actions he knew would turn violent and, would place pressure on the British for adverse world opinion so yes, there was violence, violence that he was counting on.

LOL nope. Just showing you that the attempts to paint Israel as anymore racist than other nations is a silly argument as they are certainly no more racist than their neighbors and pretty much the same as other western nations.

Try something a bit more realistic than using Goodwin’s Law as you come off like a loon.

Please provide the link to all these bulldozers with hordes of people behind them moving into homes that were just flattened in 1948 immediately prior to the Arab Declaration of war to violently destroy Israel.

And twenty years in which they could have made peace. More wasted time.

 

If that's what you believe then you need to be more accommodating to Israel and try to figure out how best to pave the way for this to be a smooth transition. Perhaps something akin to being behind a peace acceptance by the PA where they remove the destruction of Israel from their offensive charters and enforce same amongst their population and then, recommend how negotiations should go for security concerns for Israel and how best under realistic time frames the return of land and compensation in lieu of should go.

 

No the solution is to treat Israel as the pariah state it is, BDS and increased isolation type campaigns have worked against other colonies, no reason to think it will not work against Israel and bring about a democratic state. Israel will never have peace while it remains a supremacist state.

 

It is your repeated, lame attempts to deny documented facts that are tiresome.

You think that because the US government uses D.U. that it is not a Carcinogen?

The V.A. is in the business of denying justified claims. I know because as a U.S. Veteran, I'm among the many who have confronted the V.A.'s claims Re: known Carcinogens.

D.U., like Agent Orange are both Carcinogens....I'll leave it to rational readers of this to verify this widely known fact


Let me repeat myself but do so more clearly:

Currently, the US bankrolls your parasitic, pariah "State" while you continue to systematically exterminate & sterilize Palestinians via Chemical, D.U., N.D.U. Genotoxic ordinance & D.I.M.E. bombs....... MANY OF WHICH ARE PROVIDED BY THE U.S.:


“CONSEQUENCES OF ISRAELI WEAPONS TESTING ON GAZA”
http://snippits-and-slappits.blogspo...s-testing.html


EXCERPTS

"---- DU contamination is irreversible and the effect is prolonged for many generations. A contaminated man will pass it to his spouse, who will then pass it to her child and that leads to his or her child and it goes on and on. The most calamitous aspect of DU contamination is the birth of stillborn or disfigured babies.


--- Depleted uranium accumulation has been recorded in the bone, kidney, reproductive system, brain and lung. It is carcinogenic, toxic to the kidneys, damaging to cellular DNA and causes malformations to an embryo or foetus.

_ _ _ _


“The DIME Bomb: Yet another genotoxic weapon, Part III”
https://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=5748
EXCERPT “ Since early July, Israeli forces have been using a new weapon in the Gaza Strip that inflicts strange and deadly wounds....
.......DU & NDU bombs are converted to micron-sized particles that sicken and kill and murder the next generation in the womb.”CONTINUED


Fortunately or unfortunately the carcinogens spread throughout the Occupied Territories are not constrained by Israel's 20'tall Apartheid Wall or Checkpoints.

The same toxic effects of Israel's WMDs that are concentrated in Palestinian neighborhoods are beginning to show up in Israeli neighborhoods. Since D.U. contaminated dust is a wind borne contaminate, it is only a matter of time before it affects you & yours.

_ _ _ _ _


As far as Nazi - Zionist complicity, that, too is a well documented fact you repeatedly deny:


“The Zionist-Nazi Collaboration”
http://dissidentvoice.org/2012/07/the-zionist-nazi-collaboration/





“Nazis SS Funded Nascent Israeli Army”
http://www.henrymakow.com/israeli_haganah.html

EXCERPT “In his 1988 book "Blowback," Christopher Simpson says captured SS records documented a covert agreement between the SS and the Haganah, the forerunner of the Israeli Defense Force.

"Under the arrangement the Haganah was permitted to run training camps for Jewish youth inside Germany."CONTINUED

_ _ _ _ _ _


Since I only respond to your repeated, tiresome denials of documented facts for the benefit of rational individuals who may read this, I am glad to support my assertions to anyone wanting additional information.

 

http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps/Exhib/HowtoEngl.html

_ _ _ _ _

The Haavara Agreement is hardly a secret. Yes under the agreement and for a PILE of foreign currency the Nazi regime allowed Haganah to open a bunch of settler "training camps". You know so that jews who could AFFORD to get out could learn about how to survive in a far more primitive non-european land. Your idiotic propaganda is designed to make it sound as tho the zionists were COMPLICIT in what the Nazi scumbags did to their fellow jews not to mention all the others.

Typical jew hating sophistic propaganda from the usual sources.



_ _ _ _ _ _

I repeat as above:

 

War was the last choice. There was twenty years of protest, plural politics and revolt internally and twenty years of political diplomacy in the region.

The racism of Palestinians is irrelevant. Its mostly rhetoric. They dont have an army enforcing racist policy through Jewish settlement.

They have an army enforcing real live racism through Jewish settlement. No western nation is doing that.

LOL, this from the guy who was panicked about being called out for calling everyone here anti semitic, having no one here come to your aid and then when given specific quotes detailing that very charge whined that it all wasnt specific enough because you were never quoted saying the exact words "you are an anti semite etc etc".

No I dont think so. You may disagree all you wish.

LOL, so lets get this straight. You recommend that they first strike everything Israelis dont like from their charters, then if that isnt enough for the Israelis to leave occupied lands you then recommend that they, having then run out of other options, surrender unconditionally?

Meanwhile this unconditional surrender is preferable to what they are experiencing now - so with unconditional surrender the Israelis can move onto any land they like and that would be better than they are experiencing now?

The power differential is crucial, under occupation they can afford no political space for debate. Of course more backward less powerful nations are more racist, they are also more socially conservative and different from western liberal democracy in a whole host of other ways.

LOL, and what were they establishing Israel on exactly?

Palestine perhaps?

LOL, love it when you occasionally try to foray into history.

The ICJ says otherwise regarding this occupied territory.

And no making the violent destruction of your neighbour your goal is not far greater a crime than actually destroying the your neighbour's country by settling on its land.

This sort of war has nothing to do with settlements.

Actually it has everything to do with making peace. Its an offensive action.

They removed their claim to 78% of Mandate palestine and cooperated with Israeli forces for the last ten years, even despite the Gaza war. There you go.

Nope. The Palestinians already agree to peace. They dont agree to peace with settlements or continued settlement building. Or annexation of East Jerusalem. No Palestinians are going to agree to peace with Israelis who can find an excuse to make war and continue settlement building in the future.

LOL, theyd already made hundreds of thousands of refugees within their own allocated area that they agreed to. So its not a red herring , its a vital point you simply cant deny.

The PA are controlling Gaza now are they? Tell us another tall tale Drew.

Your referring to the State. Before then it was simply Palestinians land. By majority and history.

A peace process and cooperation are not exactly the same thing, though similar.

Israel isnt under settlement and occupation.

Yes whats left is mere rhetoric. thats why youve lost the argument over all, your arguing over Palestinians rhetoric.

He sent his own people to be beat to a pulp in actions he knew would turn violent and, would place pressure on the British for adverse world opinion so yes, there was violence, violence that he was counting on.
[/QUOTE]

Violence that he and his followers did not commit. Sorry that he was smarter than you would have liked.

Many places and peoples have racism. Israel uses an army to enforce settlement. Big difference.

Its Godwins law. And the point remains;

Hundreds of thousands of people immigrating from Europe and setting up their own ethnocentric state. One that Palestinians have long accepted. But that doesn't mean that stopping Israel wasn't and just and moral goal. Just like the Russians stopped the Whermact and the German settlers behind them.

No it happened through the years after 1948, through 1949, and into the 50s and 60s. Read the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan Pappe.

Or just ask yourself what happened to some 400 arab villages or why Ben Gurion would admit the whole thing.

They cant make peace if no leadership or government is recognised and anyone who speaks out or calls for strike action is arrested.

 

Its not a strawman its an analogy. A useful one because of the stikingly similar parallels.

LOL, all the Israelis have to do is get into their lands and put up a big wall. They can get trust later.

Why cant you negotiate again? Your answer is somewhat cloudy, whats stopping you?

Anyway, the IRA didnt give up its claim to seek unification of all Ireland even today.

Nope, we on the Palestinans side are the good guys.

Israel can be a jewish nation all it likes as long as that doesnt affect anyone in its borders and it doesnt require anyone outside to recognise it as such.

Al Nakba is real history. Go ahead and tell Jewish people to forget about the Holocaust.

Indeed, in fact it was the Israeli forces who outnumbered a collection of third world battle groups.

Go ahead and look it up. Palestinians have been led very well by the leadership - so much for your 'its all because they had bad leaders'

So some Muslim immigrants who have always had a small presence there manage to get thousands more people into the town and then seek to divide into half Caliphate and half yours. Youre cool with that are you?

Nice try, so do you think that if they had managed to keep Jewish immigrants out by violence, a wall, or anything else, that they would have been right to do so?

 

"HOW TO BE A HASBARA TROLL"?

So, that's your "rebuttal"?

The German Zionist Federation WAS complicit in many ways with Germany's National Socialists in selling out Germany's non Zionist Jews in order to get their Zionist Colony in Palestine:

“Zionist Collaboration With The(*)Nazis”
http://socioecohistory.wordpress.co...cuments-zionist-collaboration-with-the-nazis/
EXCERPT “the Zionists had a long history of shameless cooperation with the Nazis, especially after the dictator Adolph Hitler had came to power in 1933.
The Zionists were also in bed with the other members of what later became known as WWII’s “Axis of Evil,”

And to top it all off, the infamous Adolf Eichmann, had visited Palestine, in October, 1937, as the guest of the Zionists.

He also met, in Egypt, with Feivel Polkes, a Zionist operative, whom Eichmann described as a “leading Haganah functionary.” The chain-smoking Polkes was also on the Nazis’ payroll “as an informer.” 


Brenner isn’t the first writer to address the mostly taboo subject of how the Zionist leadership cooperated with the Nazis.

Rolf Hilberg’s seminal “The Destruction of European Jews”;

Hannah Arendt’s “Eichmann in Jerusalem”;

Ben Hecht’s “Perfidy”;

Edwin Black’s “The Transfer Agreement”;

Francis R. Nicosia’s “The Third Reich and the Palestine Question”;

Rudolf Vrba and Alan Bestic’s “I Cannot Forgive”;

and Rafael Medoff’s “The Deadening Silence: American Jews and the Holocaust,” also dared, with varying public success.CONTINUED


The rest of your pathetic Post is just the same as others: Lots of evasion Re: D.U. genocide, a healthy dose of Name Calling and then some more Name Calling via junk slander from a Hasbara web site that is such blatant trash, you're too ashamed to post its true origin?

Again, I'll let rational readers who aren't name calling apologists for Ethnic Cleansing compare our respective Posts

 

Then rejoice because Israel llikewise cooperated with Hamas when it deals with it on kidnaped soldeirs.