Marjorie Taylor Greene posts anti-transgender sign across hall from lawmaker with transgender child

I agree with much of your points. Let’s say — hypothetically — a child wanted to take puberty hormone blockers (with the blessings of their private physician) and we had developed some that were fully reversible with no long term side effects on development, basically pausing puberty... would you agree with that as long as no surgical alteration or permanent effects occur?

 

But parents already do “**** with children” — and the parents most likely to do so are the ones most upset by this...

They sign them up for unlicensed therapy because they don’t agree with their orientation.
They force them to attend religious indoctrination camps.
They genitally mutilate them because of religious rituals.

How is this really any different?
(For the record I am against all of the above)

 

I don't disagree with what you are saying, but I also think the relationship between doctor and patient/family is sacrosanct too. We're talking about a wide range of permutations of this. I think it's rather silly to try and paint it with a wide brush. What you seem to be implying is that you don't trust doctors and families to make the right decision for their children, and I just don't buy that.

 

I don't think such a thing could be done honestly, especially the long term effects. But I suppose if it were possible then I suppose it wouldn't bother me. Here's a similar veined question for you. If they were to come out with a drug that made it to where transgenders became accepting of their natural body, meaning they no longer feel the need to change their physical sex, would you accept it and perhaps even advocate for it over transgender surgery?

I add that "advocate" part thinking of children.

 

Guess what, we have something in common. I'm against all of the above also.

 

The problem is your hypothetical relies on even more fantasy than what the current evidence shows. The complex interweaving of how we develop sexually does not mean it's all genetic or molecular. If and when we discover such a link, then yes, it would be available, but for now, with what we know, such a drug would have more harm than good.

 

Neither one is to be trusted fully. No one is to be trusted fully no matter the subject.

Reason to not always trust doctors: Not all doctors actually care about their patients. They just want to make money. (I especially feel this way towards cosmetic "doctors").
Reason to not always trust parents: Child abusers, both mentally and physically. Child rapists. As much as I have advocated for parents Rights, I do not always side with the parents. There's a reason that we have a Child Protective Services department.

 

He gave a hypothetical of something just as much of a "fantasy". I provided one of my own along the same veins.

 

Again, I agree, but we are also talking about an extremely limited segment of the population. There is always the potential for abuse, but that is true of any given issue, but why are we making this such an abhorrent issue if it weren't for the biases we bring to the table? If we were talking about cleft palates, there would be no issue. For decades, there was a whole issue regarding circumcision, to do or not, but no legislation was ever presented to address it. Unless there is a reason to suspect the parents, don't assume they are doing so with malice.

And for the record, this is not considered "cosmetic". The professionals who work in this field are as licensed as well as any other field. Do you hold that same level of mistrust for endocrinologists and cardiologists as you do to psychiatrists and surgeons?

 

In the video you linked, during the q&a, an elderly woman asked if such hormone treatment could develop into a higher propensity of cancer, particularly breast cancer. Dr Levine says there are studies ongoing to answer that question, but as of now, estrogen therapy is safe.

 

There's just something about this phrasing that bothers me. I'm not saying you did this on purpose, but it seems like it may be couched within your own biases in a way you may not fully comprehend.

We're talking about an individual who is tormented because they feel they cannot be the complete expression of the sexual being they identify with and want to be in closer alignment to alleviate that conflict. It's easy to dismiss their predicament because the vast majority of us don't necessarily have this conflict, however many of us do suffer from other issues such as depression, bipolar disorder and schizophrenia, and only until just a decade or so ago those individuals had to struggle with social issues regarding how society perceives their mental illness. The negative perceptions prevented many from getting the help they need, but now anti-depressants are commonplace. We did not get to this new enlightened position on mental health overnight. It took years of research in many disciplines to come up with solutions to mental illness, along with legislation, to treat mental health on par with medical health.

Don't you think transgender medicine deserves the same respect, even if it won't affect you?

 

I would absolutely accept it. I fall in with your points above about allowing other to do as they wish — I don’t think I would advocate for it because that would be me putting my beliefs onto another. I would advocate for knowledge on the subject however.

As to puberty blockers, GnRH is fully reversible and the side effects are minimal if they occur at all: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases...horia/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075

Does this make you reconsider your position?

 

Failure and word games do not explain science.

The norm is a dog born with four legs less than that or more than that is an abberation. Just as intersex is an abberation and does not alter the fact that there are two genders which science PROVES

 

Side effects aren't minimal from my perspective.

Yearly bone density and bone age tests? Not only a painful process but if its affect bone density enough to cause concern enough to get yearly tests then that is not going to be reversible. Penile and scrotal skin not developed enough, that obviously isn't reversible if they decide to not transition. Lower self-esteem? Great, years of mental therapy. What's with the headaches? The drug is causing them...why? What is it affecting to cause them? What is the long term effects because of it?

And those are just the known side effects... well, semi-known. Going through puberty can actually change ones mind about if they want to transition also as the hormones released and bodily changes have an effect on the mind. Should that be denied?

Sorry but the assurance doesn't fill me with assurance.

 

Why do you think I'm not giving them the same respect? I don't understand why you think I'm not. You really didn't explain why my question bothers you. You listed some historical facts about how people with various mental illnesses were never taken seriously until recently due to years of research. But you never actually tied my question into what you said.

But if you would like to know what I think of transgenders then here it is. I don't. I don't care about them. Nor do I not not care about them. They are simply people. Just like everyone else. If one were to stand before me I would treat them the same as I would any other stranger. If someone were to come out as transgender to me I would still treat them them same as I would anyone else that is close enough to me to trust in me in telling me something they care about.

Or lets put it in a bit more clearer way. My daughter came out as bi to me a few months ago. I simply said "OK" and shrugged my shoulders. I then told her if that is what you are then that is what you are. I still support you and I still love you so don't ever worry. And if anyone says something crosswise to you about it then ignore it because they are not worth your time. Or if necessary because they're bullying you...then punch them in the nose. I'll back you up.

I'll treat strangers as just that. Strangers. Not caring about them beyond the simple fact that they are human and deserve at least that much care. Beyond that I feel nothing about them one way or another. Doesn't matter to me. The ONLY exceptions to this rule is children, and peoples Rights. I'll defend both to my dying breath.

 

What to you is safe? Is it no negative effects what so ever? Or is it just safe enough to get you from point A to point B alive?

 

There is a huge difference between cleft pallets and circumcision vs altering the entire chemical balance in your body and lopping parts of your body that are important off.

As for your question, yes I do. I don't trust ANYONE. I always verify for myself to the best of my ability. I will trust them to a point. Because I have no choice to. But I'm not going to trust them 100%. And even cosmetic doctors are licensed just as well as any other doctor. In fact many cosmetic doctors were originally regular doctors until they found out that they could make more money doing cosmetic surgery. Not all mind you. But a lot.

 

Her appeal to science is laughable considering her claim that Jewish lasers in space caused forest fires.

 

"Science"? Do you really think she relies on science? Is her claim of Jewish lasers in space starting forest fires "scientific"?

 

See my posts above.

It's also a scientific fact that occasionally babies are born with both male and female genitalia.

 

Yes... 100% Science.

XX = Female
XY = Male

Or are you a "Science Denier"?

You're welcome for this bit of education.

 

Keep in mind, I can only go with the words you type. I can't see the intent of your message as I could in a face to face conversation. This phrasing...

...reminds me of what occurred to patients suffering from mental illness at the advent of when anti-depressants started becoming popular in the 80s. When big pharma started producing these class of drugs, not only did doctors start handing them out like candy, insurance companies preferred it over more traditional cognitive behavioral therapy. The way they figured it was that the drugs were less expensive than paying for all that couch time with a therapist.

Of course, as time went along, we started seeing some really horrible effects on patients as the suicidal side effects of these anti-depressants became known. They learned the hard way that for certain patients, CB therapy was still needed, along with constant monitoring of symptoms. So that phrasing leads me to believe many people would like there to be a quick fix, but as we have learned, there are no quick fixes.

Our society as a whole is very uncomfortable with this topic. The entire struggle of LGBTQ+ issues has always had to overcome this built-in institutional and societal inertia based on illogical biases and phobias. We require doctors to go through years of study and training, licensing and residencies. While that is no guarantee of your particular doctor having your best interest in mind, that doesn't mean society should step into that relationship and dictate what amount of medicine or treatment course a doctor/patient should explore.

 

Try reading what she said and then come back that thread was gone over to death.

A Company can not be "Jewish" that is your hint.

 

Yes and those are anomolies which change nothing just as a dog born with 3 legs changes nothing.

There are two genders

 

Safe to me means the option with the least risk. Very few things have no risk at all.