NATO should demilitarize border with Russia, or face new Cold War – Corbyn

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by cerberus, Nov 22, 2016.

  1. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    Schroeder is not Putin's friend. No friends in politics. Schroeder is smart and is not a puppet of USA, so he has working relations with Putin.
     
  2. drluggit

    drluggit Well-Known Member

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    Why should we care, at all, about what Corbyn thinks? On the Ukraine, wasn't his response something akin to "who cares"?

    Just a few of his comments: "He asserts that one must “recognize the history lurking behind the drama”, and that “Ukraine’s national borders have ebbed and flowed with the tides of history”. He then claims significant collaboration with the Nazis during the Second World War and states that “their descendants could be seen bearing Nazi insignia and spouting racist slogans in Kiev only a week ago.” "

    Gosh. Seems pretty tight with the Russians, and their militarization. Wonder that, huh?
     
  3. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    OK ... and how do you call things when Putin invited Schroeder + wife to his birthday party ... far after he left politics and 6 years after he lost election against Merkel?
    Strange that Schroeder became without close friendship to Putin lobbyist for Russia business and being in management of Nordstream, a 51% daughter of Gazprom and where again Russian government has the saying at least...
    Strange when both speak often by phone & Co. together if not being friends when ... if you don't know it ... Schroeder is totally out of politics in Germany and even does nearly nothing say inside his own party since end of his chancellery... and so has no influence at anything in Berlin government.
     
  4. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    About how Crimea became part of Russia. Short.

    Russian-Turkish War (1768-1774). Complex European diplomatic game was preceded by War. As a result of the French and Polish intrigues Ottoman Sultan Mustafa III declared war on Russia.
    On the Turkish side fought her vassal Crimean Khanate.
    July 15, 1774 signed a Treaty Küçük Kaynarca - ended the Russian-Turkish war. The agreement put an end to the Ottoman domination over the Crimea. Crimea became independent.
    Turks despite the agreement did not withdraw their troops from the Crimea. There have been repeated attempts to attack Russian soldiers.
    Later, Turkey has repeatedly violated the agreement. Russian commander Suvorov - solved these problems.
    And June 28, 1783 Catherine II Manifesto Crimea was incorporated into Russia.
    Peter the Great had not fought in the Crimea. In the time of Peter the Great was taken Azov. But this is not the Crimea.
    First, the Don Cossacks took Azov.
    Azov was a free city. It can be said - the capital of the Don Cossacks.
    Many times, the Turks wanted to return Azov. But not successful.
    In 1641, under the Azov arrived a huge Ottoman fleet of 70 galleys and 90 auxiliary vessels. To the walls of the fortress by land came Ottoman army and mercenaries. In total, not counting workers at the Azov gathered no less than 150 thousand enemy soldiers. Engineering work for Turks led by the best European experts: the Italians and the Germans.... The fortress houses a total of about 5500 Cossacks, including 800 women. Her defense was led by the Cossack Ataman Osip Petrov.
    Historians say that in four months the siege of the Turks made 24 assault.
    The commander of the siege of Hussein Pasha Delia realized that frontal attacks do not benefit, and decided to act by means of undermining. The Cossacks were able to detect 17 Turkish mine galleries and timely blow them. Soon, from 150000 Ottoman troops left at least 40 thousand soldiers. Sultan sent reinforcements of the Janissaries, saying Hussein: "Pasha, take Azov or give your head."
    But it did not help. Delia decided to buy the Azov and offered to pay each Cossack, who will leave the fortress a thousand thalers, but the response was laughter.
    Approach autumn, the rains and cold, among the besiegers began to spread of the disease. Turkish army melted away day by day. But the Cossacks in the fortress did not know about it. Their forces were on the wane, the living was no more than 3 thousand soldiers. Wall - or rather, their remains - were in poor condition, almost out of ammunition and food. It was clear that one of the coming attacks Ottomans burst in Azov. Cossacks accepted the offer Ataman Osip Petrov to take the last combat sortie and or drive away Ottomans or to die in open battle.
    But when the early morning of September 26 the Cossacks came out of the fortress, they found that the enemy camp disappeared. A few hours ago, the Turkish army removing the siege.

    In Turkey fail Azov campaign took very hard - almost like a national disgrace. The official decree of the sultan - the word "Azov" was declared taboo - Violators face severe punishment.

    Once again - only Russian protected.
     
  5. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    OK ... then near Crimea at least, but did not change the fact that Peter the Great started this war at least and it was no defending war of Russia. Goal of Peter was to have a first (ice free) Navy base for Russia.

    And id we take a closer look on the big Nordic War of Peter with Sweden, it was also not a defense war against Sweden because being attacked ... and with same background to have an entry to the Sea, here Baltic Sea.

    Sure, long time ago history and as I told, I do not accuse Peter the Great here at all. But it shows that Russia was not only attacked by others, but attacked others too. I can go further in history of course and at many examples it is discussable, but this will bring nothing to discuss here, because yours and mine opinion about will only clash at least. :wink:
     
  6. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    Common interests, business. It is not friendship.It is normal for a normal peoples, but it is wildly for aggressive NATO fanatics. USA is watching everyone. Total surveillance. Including Merkel under surveillance around the clock. This is a normal relationship, equality and sovereignty of NATO members)))
     
  7. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    As a result of the French and Polish intrigues Ottoman Sultan Mustafa III declared war on Russia.
     
  8. Sam Bellamy

    Sam Bellamy Well-Known Member

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    Yep, both parties have created the mess. I agree. What I'm talking about here is the leftist ideology. They absolutely refuse to acknowledge the truth that Muslims can be, and are, terrorists.
     
  9. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If he did say that then it makes three things he's got right! (the withdrawal of NATO from the Russian border, and theTrident upgrade being the other two?) :mrgreen: I'm of the opinion that Ukraine is Russia's problem, and seeing that we in the west don't know what nuances there might be we should leave it to Russia (who does know), and let them resolve it in the way Putin thinks is best for the greater good of the region. This is a 'little local difficulty' and not something we should poke our stupid noses in (like we would know what's best :roll: ) and risk a world war over.
     
  10. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Sure ... a bad behavior of NSA, but be sure that FSB is not better at least.
    And no ... both - Putin and Schroeder - still told to be friends in public ... wake up please and don't ignore facts you don't like or blame them as lie.
     
  11. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Nonsense ... Neither the French nor the Polish made this at this war I spoke about ... simply because for them was at this time Russia a barbaric area of tribes and they gave a crap on it.
     
  12. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    OK ... and then comes the next step: Why is the Islamist movement as base of all Islamic terror and Jihad yelling scum raised and became a threat for you and me?
    Reason and answer on this question can be found again in Washington D.C. (and other capitals too).
    Particularly this scum of dictators which depressed their folk was in majority and with only 1 exception (Syria and Assad) completely supported and backed by Washington, because they declared to friend with USA and they followed largest the will of the USA. That non of them was only a spark of democratic, eliminating any sort of democratic movement and using Sharia as base law was totally uninteresting over the last 60 years for Washington. The only backdoor for these depressed people was the religion where even worst dictators regret to make same depression as usual!

    And maybe many US people forgot that Saddam Hussein was in the 1980's a friend of the USA, simply he was in war with hated Iran. This only changed with 1991!
    Wasn't Saddam so heavy accused to have used poison gas against civilians in Kurdistan of Northern Iraq by you all? Yes ... but all these people here yelling shall please take a look on the reaction of your so beloved President Reagan administration right on this gas attack please! That was shameful and a scandal and such things create hate on USA backed by religion!
     
  13. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    The FSB is listening Merkel's phones ??))) "told .... in public".........
    [​IMG]
     
  14. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    The people of USA is cynical, arrogant, selfish consumers. They are interested in their standard of living only.
     
  15. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    NSA told in public too of course ... ehm ... no! It was Edward Snowden who did. And the FSB does nothing then you say?
     
  16. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    All the intelligence agencies spy and listen. But USA is your allies and Germany is a sovereign country. Then why USA is spying Merkel? Maybe because USA consider you their property? May be Germany is not a sovereign country in reality? Why Russia withdrew troops from Germany but USA keep troops and nuclear weapons? Why do you need US troops in Germany? It may be that USA drones can kill people conveniently in Pakistan, Afghanistan, etc.?
     
  17. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Of course an evil act and I accused the USA until today for this … but you know what? KGB did the same too all the time with their allies… and for sure is FSB monitoring friends like President of Belarus and others too, eh?

    Sure… every ally of the USA is for you only a puppet, particularly if they agree with the USA and stand on their side.
    So in reverse, Moscow must have a bunch of puppets of Ex- USSR members then.

    Because NATO members do so and Russia is NATO? You know what, some of these nuclear weapons of the USAF are for Tornado Jets of German Air Force if full war. Shocked?
    This is since ever the case and part of NATO … no matter if you like it or hate it, but fact!

    And you know what? There are German troops stationed in the USA, in Canada, Greece and Turkey too … as well also being currently in the Baltics. Shocked now?

    Because this is part of NATO maybe as other troops of other NATO members are in Germany too and German troops are in other countries too with bases and camps?
    And for sure is Germany a base of the Drone War of the USA when much better places are still existing for it which a closer to the areas of action. Investigate better before claiming such nonsense please…
     
  18. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    No one can listen to the President of Belarus, because Belarus designs and manufactures devices for government communications independently. Belarus has the sovereignty real. Not virtual, as Germany.

    The global system of USA has provided you with high standards of living in exchange for your sovereignty. It's your choice. Russia refused Marshall plan. But now your host has become weak and can not control the planet. EU is a project of globalists from US but globalists are losing. What will happen with you when the EU will cease to exist? Who will win the elections when Erdogan will open the way for refugees to EU in the spring?
     
  19. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Some dreaming and head games of "what if" from West haters only told.
    What if the Russian Forces slaughter further rebels in Syria and civilians around instead fighting ISIS? What if when Syria becomes for Russia the second Afghanistan?

    Your hate to EU and USA is wrong addressed ... spread it to someone else please. I don't like the EU as it is and I want a reform of the EU back to the roots ... as well a reform of NATO too. And finally, I'm no friend of the embargo against Russia at least.
    BUT ... I do also not agree with Russian propaganda BS too, as I do not agree with western MS BS media too. OK?
     
  20. D0nRumataEst0rsky

    D0nRumataEst0rsky Banned

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    The West invaded five countries, made several a coup and provoked civil war in these countries. Are you surprised that people hate West? People want to protect themselves from mad dogs of NATO. The West deceive and use these rebels to seize territory. West is a moral monster. Now you can tell tales me about the fact that Russia sent troops to Syria to bomb hospitals and schools.
    [video=youtube;Cr7ePrCAqzo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr7ePrCAqzo[/video][​IMG]
     
  21. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    Again. Ottoman Sultan Mustafa III declared war on Russia.

    What's not clear? Not Russian aggressor.
     
  22. Mandelus

    Mandelus Well-Known Member

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    Wrong ... After Peter attacked Tartars first!
     
  23. Destroyer of illusions

    Destroyer of illusions Banned

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    Do you understand what you are writing?

    [​IMG]

    Ivan the Terrible was at war with the Tartars. At the time of Peter the Great, Tatarstan has long been a part of Russia.

    Amazing German education.
     
  24. Sam Bellamy

    Sam Bellamy Well-Known Member

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    Please. This BS with Muslims goes back to their inception. They're violent ideologists. Always have been, always will be.
     
  25. cerberus

    cerberus Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Let's all hope that with the election of Donald Trump all this American naked imperialism and arrogant imposition of 'democracy' by force upon all other countries whether they want it or not, this warring country will at last become sane again.
     

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