Protesters in SoCal block buses carrying supposed illegals

That doesn't grant you citizenship. It is but proof of birth in a location, unless you hold a US Passport recognizing you as a US National and Citizen, you are merely assumed to be a Citizen. A state does not/can not determine your status, only the DOS has that ability.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB121842058533028907

 

Were you born to American parents? If so that is the reason. The USA is for the citizens of the USA. We do not exist for the pleasure of the illegals.

Are you willing to trade your citizenship for theirs?

 

No, I'm not willing to do that. Very few people would be willing to do that. However, that doesn't mean I can't support equal opportunity for everyone. The US was founded on immigration. You're ancestors were immigrants (unless you're Native American).

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It certainly makes it easier- both of my parents are U.S. citizens.

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Lol, I'd love to see you end up in their position. You're opinion on this matter would change so fast...

 

So our Declaration of Independence is meant for the world and not just the US?

It certainly does, provided both of your parents have passports stating they are US Citizens or a State issued document granting them citizenship.

Assumption.

 

Yeah, it's an assumption, but it's probably true.

No, our DOI is only meant for the US and people in it. If someone comes to the US, it is for them. If you think there should be no immigrants allowed in the US you're going against your ancestors.

 

Don't confuse an immigrant with an illegal immigrant, they are not the same. You don't seem to know anything about past immigration or the laws that have been around since 1606 and the Jamestown colony. We have never had open immigration to the colonies, the Union, or the US. There was always someones permission required to either leave their home nation or to enter into a new nation or controlled territory. There have always been rules to join a society dataing back millenia throughout human history.

 

I fail to understand the point your trying to make....I'm well aware of all these things (...I passed 5th grade). Having a completely open boarder would be absurdly dangerous. However, if people are free of dangerous disease, serious criminal history and are willing to work, pay taxes and be apart of society, what direct harm would we be doing by letting them in and allowing them to gain citizenship?

I understand, not all of them care about citizenship. But those bus loads of people, I believe, should have been processed, been medically screened, background checks, education records if possible, etc. And if everything checked out, they should be let in and granted citizenship IF that's what they want. This would not be devastating to the US or our economy.

 

When would it stop? When the entirety of the world got here, when our resources ran out? when?

It would become devastating the more that showed up, as I ask, when would it end? Once we run out of entitlements, money, land, resources, when?

 

How have we let this discussion descend to the level where we don't understand naturalization and the correct path to citizenship? This is like the gun control discussions. The uninformed think they have all the right answers, and since no living soul has ever given this one second of thought, their plan should go into effect immediately.
We are a civilized society. We maintain that status by doing things in ways that have been established as correct since the days of Hammurabi. We have laws, and we have very specific procedures in place for dealing with those who choose to act against those laws. Trouble is, the leaders of our civilized society need to get a grip on that whole chain of thought.

 

1. It would probably never stop. However, people would die. It's not like when someone immigrates to the US they become immortal and stay here forever...

2. Obviously, the entire world, in fact, not even close to it, would immigrate to the US for a number of reasons:
-Billions of people are happy where they are and do not wish to immigrate to the US
-Some nations don't even allow people out of their boarders to come to the US
-For many, it's a completely transportational issue: they just simply don't have the means of transportation to get here
-And, of course, you can't forget the millions of individuals with dangerous illnesses or diseases and the many others with questionable backgrounds

3. Our resources won't run out. People said the same thing in the 1800's when the Irish were immigrating, they said the same about the Japanese, the Germans, so forth. The fact of the matter is that we have much more than enough money and resources for everyone who would be immigrating to the US. The real issue is how equally those resources are distributed.

So no, the entire world is not going to immigrate to the US, in fact, most of the world wouldn't immigrate to the US. And yes, we have more than enough resources for everyone here.

 

The question is: Are they immigrating legally or illegally? It has NOTHING to do with racism.

Are you serious? Do you actually think we have qualified people who would be doctors or scientists if only immigrants weren't taking up those jobs? We have a shortage of doctors, for one. Someone who can come here LEGALLY and be a doctor is making a positive contribution to our society. We want them. We need them. And we don't care if they came from India or China, because it's NOT about race.

Hmm, how about the millions of actual citizens who are unemployed? Maybe they could do those jobs?

 

All nations must allow there citizens the ability to leave their home country and to accept them back in (Universal Declaration of Human Rights), All the worlds poor would jump at the opportunity to come to the US. Illegals from south of our border pay a coyote over $5K to come here, the cost of a visa ranges from $180 to maybe $600, yet these are all poor and destitute people as you already stated escaping violence in their home countries. you seem to be arguing both ways, going in different directions, a the while going nowhere.

We are already having drought issues, sewage issues, disposal issues, etc. More and more people will do nothing but compound the problems.

I just gave you some researchable issues that will disprove your moral intentions.

 

All the worlds poor? Are you serious? Where would they get the money to come to the US if they're so poor to begin with? That makes no sense.

all those drought issues, sewage issues, disposal issues, etc. are not the result of us running low of resources.

And if those people are so poor, where would they get $180 to maybe $600 for a visa?

And another thing, if your little fantasy of all the world's poor flocking to the US came true, that would completely devastate the US economically and in many other ways, so people would leave and return to their home countries, because remember, they're allowed to.

 

These are poor kids who were sent to the US by their parents, with no concept of what is going on, many of whom are in need of care and help. Should they have been sent into the US like this? Of course not. But they are here. We can't just throw them in a Mexican desert and see if they survive--that is disgusting and inhumane. It saddens me that people are so xenophobic that they wont even allow children to enter their community while the issue is worked out.

 

Yes, we do have qualified individuals who are out of work- the amount of homeless people with college degrees, PhDs, law degrees, etc. is astounding in this country.

You're correct, the millions of unemployed citizens could do those jobs...so why aren't they?

 

Here is an interesting article relevant to the idea that immigrants do jobs Americans wont:

http://openborders.info/immigrants-do-jobs-natives-wont-do/

Immigrants tend to be either high-skilled or low-skilled; Americans tend to be more toward the middle of the skill distribution. This means that immigrants aren’t substitutes for American labor but, instead, free up American labor to do jobs where it is more productive. That’s one reason economists don’t find that immigration depresses the wages of the native-born.

As a number of economists have pointed out, immigrants don’t “do jobs Americans won’t do.” They do jobs that wouldn’t exist if the immigrants weren’t there to do them. By making life harder for a population of undocumented immigrants, the state government has ensured that future generations of Alabamians will be poorer than they would otherwise be.

Furthermore, by getting rid of immigrants,
American farmers will stop growing crops that require many workers. Without a large supply of low-skilled immigrant farm workers, labor-intensive farming would either shrink dramatically or disappear entirely. American farmers would either grow different crops that could be profitably harvested mechanically or stop farming. American consumers would either import fruits and vegetables that require large numbers of workers from countries where those workers are abundant, or scale back their consumption of those food stuffs.

 

You tell me how those that are poor and destitute can pay over $5K for a coyote to come here from SA.

Really?

Where do they get the money to pay $5K for a coyote? http://bigstory.ap.org/article/guatemalan-boy-left-better-life-died-alone

And we are left with their damage, another 3 world country instead of being a 1st world nation.

 

The problem is once these children are given to their US parent or guardian, they never show up for their court date to work out their status.

 

Many do do those jobs (more than 50% of Ag workers are citizens), others don't live near the jobs and they can't afford to up and move to them. The illegals are pretty mobile, they usually don't stay in one place very long, most don't have any roots here.

 

Just for the record:
A "Border" is a line of demarcation between two places.
A "Boarder" is a person who takes his meals in a common place with others, and usually

pays for his food in advance. It's a bit of an archaic word, but let us please not get it

confused with "Border", or anyone who crosses ours illegally.
Now, about this whole mess with the kiddies... In another thread, or maybe this one, it

is discussed how there were jobs offered to to deal with it as early as Jan. 29. Another

thread describes how these little guys are in terrible shape, with scabies and lice, yet

they were transported on commercial jets and buses before they arrived at the treatment

centers. If you use public transport near the border, keep a close watch to see what

starts growing on you.
Since we now know that it was organized long enough ago to warrant a job search for

medical staff, we know that this is some kind of a false flag operation. Think on that.

 

The second paragraph contradicts the first paragraph.

The H2A visa is unlimited with no cap, why are the farmers not using it? Why not simply change the H2A visa to make it more user friendly?

As our population grows our resources dwindle, our lands/waters become polluted, our farm lands shrink.

 

Who is going to "pay the bill for hosting these undocumented persons"?
The <doom> Federals <Darth Vadar breath sounds> have a habit of dumping these costs on the locals. Murietta, California is not so large or rich where they can absorb these costs.
Consider the costs of education of undocumented children on South West School districts.


Moi

r > g

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Are you claiming this is due to immigrants taking those jobs? Because if not, this statement is irrelevant. Also, some college degrees (liberal arts mostly) are basically worthless. But any qualified doctor should be able to find a job. As for law degrees, there truly is a surplus of lawyers. Those homeless and jobless with a degree were studying the wrong things. Just because you're educated in something doesn't mean it's something the market wants.

Well, as pointed out, many citizens are doing them. No doubt more would be doing them if they weren't being undercut by illegals. That's kinda the whole point. Well, besides the drain on social services.

 

good for them!

 

That is no excuse. Then the government should pressure the US parent or guardian. There is absolutely no reason they would be unable to, they pressure parents all the time in cases involving child abuse and the resources are there to ensure the law is followed. Where are you getting your evidence that most aren't showing up for their court dates anyway? Most are still looking for a place to go, so it seems to me like you just made that up.