Rules no longer apply

That sounds an awfully lot like me , sweetie ... , please enlighten me further , if you would , and I'd greatly appreciate it .

Don't the Mods arse chew occasionally , and for good reason .. it seems to me that this is and should not be the sole dominion of PF Staff , but I fully understand your meaning .

In many ways , I am combative at times , but I have always tried to respond with courtesy when I have been met with courtesy ...

and I've kicked a lot of arse when I've been confronted with the posts of idiots & flamebaiters ... but that's just my opinion , maybe you feel different , it's ok , we can talk it over , that's discusssion , that's PF , that's my home , somebody goes to rocking my windows , I will defend PF , and I will defend my home & myself ... what Advisor and Mod on PF would not do the same as I have done ?

I came to PF as a refugee from BuzzDash , and it was a fight everyday to make a decent post , you can ask Daisy & Flounder & Changed how it was , don't take my word for it , ask them what it was like to everyday face the onslought of stalkers & flamebaiters & trolls that infested BuzzDash every day , every day it was a fight just to make an honest post .. it affected my health , but I was just too (*)(*)(*)(*)lm stubborn to back down , and I still am ..

That's why I Love & respect Political Forum so much , that's why I'm still here , and support Political Forum , it's because of the Moderators & Advisors like Shiva & Makedde & Subby & Sir T & One Thunder & JP5 & Jiyuu Freedom & Flouder & Daisy & Falena & Todd & Viv & soo many others that care even more than I do ,,, and even Cenydd , and yourself , BowerBird ...

and BowerBird , I'm sending you a pm , just between me and you .

The PF Staff keep the crazies out , and for that , I am thankful , but when I see a problem / task , I will speak what is in my heart , and I'll never back down from that ...

The PF Staff do the same thing every day , so why would you take me to task for doing the same ?

It's a fair question ? It deserves a fair answer ... my opinion .

 

There is no doubt that a moderated board beats an unmoderated board hands down.

My favourite saying is that "Bad manners beget bad manners" and there is no doubt that when people start slanging off at each other it can end in a downward spiral. We even see that here where the mods are forced to close threads due to pages of "An you is one too" posts

The most frustrating thing for a moderator is of course, the poster who posts JUST within the rules so there is nothing you can infract them for and it appears to all others that this person is "being favoured" Most especially to those who cannot see the difference and are the regular receivers of infractions

 

However , it also seems to me that one can fight fire with fire , or call in an Advisor or a Moderator , the PF TOS says call in a PF Staff member to decide the issue at hand ... and I am willing to do that .. I've done that many times.

The problem as I see it , there isn't... enough PF Staff to properly control the PF Forum ... the addition of qualified people to be Advisors are many ..

many good and level headed people , so I say give them a chance , yes , they'll prolly make mistakes , but doesn't everyone ?

 

That sounds like a good number. ..and in my limited experience, they have been quite effective.

One thing though. . . is there a good balance between Right and Left mods. . . I'm afraid I have noticed bias in how the rules are applied. . .some trolling is totally ignored, while fairly innocent comments lead to a warning. Some comments that are merely an answer (not necessarely smart to do that, but it is hard to resist the baiting for trolls sometime) lead to a warning. .. but the original post that triggered the exchange is given a free path!

I also think that the "reps" should either be totally scratched or that they should be given without bias. It is amazing that I can't give 2 reps to the same "left leaning comments" from a poster in three days, but that the most vitriolic Right wing posters accumulate so many reps!

Why not move to a system of "like" or "dislike" for posts? That would at least provide an outlet for those who find a post very silly or unworthy of a "like" to express its "dislike!"

 

There is bias toward the right. The left trolls with their posts all the time...it is in fact sickening what they get away with.

If you don't know how the reps work...figure it out. Read the rules.

 

I know how the reps are suppose to work. I'm not sure they work that way though.

And there is about twice as much Trolling from the Right than there is from the Left. . In fact, MANY new threads are based on nothing but baiting comments, with no real intention to promote a healthy debate, but just the intention of annoying (to use an undertatement!) liberals. . .

And many trollers freely admit that it is their intention and that that is the rason for doing it!

You seem to take yourself as an authority in this forum. Are you a mod?

If you are, I can respect your FUNCTION as a mod. . . But it certainly doesn't mean that I must bow to your opinions or that I need to take your arrogance for knowledge.

SO. . .GET OFF MY BACK. i will express what I wish to express in the most respectful manner possible, but I will not take your organic fertilizer.

 

Yea! We agree Makedde! Thanks for doing a great job moderating. I know its not easy eh? Personally I feel moderators should be paid. Even a stipend would be better than nothing. Maybe a donate fund could be set up for mods to share? Of course that may open a can of worms! I might be a REAL frendily mod if I were getting paid for it! Ha ha~ There are ways around that too I would think~ Anyway thanks again Makedde to you and all the other mods ~

reva

 

hey look , they ain't no need to feel that a-way , either one of ya , Zel didn't mean nothing by her suggestion to read the rules , OK ? I read the rules a few times myself , so don't y'all get at odds over this , please ? OK
now , y'all shake hands , or I'll kick ... well , maybe not .

 

A big problem is moderator subjectivity . I feel in the majority of the cases the mods did not even know that their biases were influencing their decision making ability. Allow me to say even though I am neither right or left I tend to be very conservative in most issues due to my religious paradigm, read paradigm as how I define reality. However, I am left wing liberal in some other issues. That said I have seen the mods make subjective decisions that were favorable to the left and to the right side of the issues...(yes that might have been a brownie point save ha ha...nah I wouldn't do that being a rev an all~)

Anyway and seriously~

Making a trolling claim is wrought with deep subjective pitfalls. A right winger thinks the left wing poster is trolling, and vice versa. IMO, Baiting is only flame if it's meant to inflame exclusively and serves no other purposes. Guess what? That calls for a decision using subjective criteria. IMO, only outright insult should be banned. If that were the rule it would remove most of ‘subjective’ aspects from making a assessment or claim of trolling. I have seen examples of moderators unwittingly making highly subjective calls because of their own personal biases, yes they were favorable to the left not the right.

reva

 

This is why I've suggested you as an Advisor , my friend . you are like Flounder , always considerate and fair .

 

delete double post

 

Mr Hillbilly. Hi my friend ! I am flattered and feel undeserving of that title but I sure thank you for your vote! You too are my mentor and have helped me more than you might know. Thanks for being there! I hope to answer my PMs and other stuff soon, I dont know what hit me and neither do the docs but I am feeling much better ha ha ~ Thanks again bud...

I agree that there is not enough Moderators to handle the work load. As I am not privy to the inner-workings of PF so that statement is just a guess, but it seems that could be a problem. They are handling it now but with more members coming in, I am sure they will increase their staff shortly.

reva

 

No, because other staff would quickly interfere. Lots of checks and balances are in place
The problem lies within the member's perception of staff.
When one feels wrongly called on the carpet, one usually perceives the reprimanding mod as one 'from the opposite side'.
Also, a reported violation may not always be a rule violation, but may just be perceived as such, and is thusly not acted upon.

 

I know several cons who have only been infracted and banned by the liberal mods...never by a right leaning mod, which means that what the liberal mod saw was something much different than a right leaning or conservative mod. That is clearly bias IMO.

 

True, and good that you pointed it out. This place is sane, and that's a big deal.

 

That's because you don't understand the way it works. If you repped more often...you'd know. You have to rep 10 people before you can rep the same person again. So like the blurb says, "you must spread the rep around". There's a reason for that...think about it.

 

That's why I told her to read the rules...LOL

 

I like your sense of fairness and I agree withyou. And, yes, the mods are doing a great job and they should get a stipend. . . If it gets to that, I"ll be happy to contribute.

A rep for you!

 

Lets not make this into something it shouldn't be.
Mod actions may be addressed appropriately in the appropriate venue, veiled insults and personal attacks are not allowed.

 

It appears your argument has been confirmed.

Sorry.

 

In response to the OP.

Perhaps the better course of action would be taking any issues that you have with the moderation staff up with the moderation staff.

Not to harp on you, as I have, at times, shared your frustration, but they woudl be the ones that would best be able to handle it, and certainly nothing good comes form calling them out publicly.

Additionally, the mods are few and far between, and I am certain there are folks, myself included, that give them cause to stay busy.

 

I agree ... I do enough baby-sitting at work and I wouldn't want their Job.

But I've been a Manager/Director for over 20 years and I know for a fact respect for Leaders are earned. And the easiest way for a Leader to earn respect is to be fair ... end of story.

No one will question a fair minded person.

 

To a certain extent

I have been a mod a time or two myself in the past and I can tell you there are a fair number of people, and often quite witty and popular people, who can not or will not conceive of the fact they can be in the wrong.

Agreed that for the majority of times an ass is an ass and the fact they are an ass is visible to all

But then there are those who ride well and only once a fortnight, say, rip someone a new one but it is dealt with, quietly and because others are not seeing the occasions where they have not abided the rules the impression is that they have been unfairly treated

Some of the perception of unfairness or bias in moderation comes from the fact that traditionally on boards such as this the number of infractions you have is between you and the moderators and only becomes obvious when someone is suspended

As a simple participant, using that as a framework it does appear that someone can rack up an inordinate amount of infractions before they are even suspended for a couple of days What I think is probably needed is a lower threshold for the first suspension from the board - but that the number and length of suspension increases as you rack up more infractions

Unfortunately suspension is one of the few tools the moderators have for disciplining an wayward member and even that can become problematic with those clever enough to "sock puppet"

 

Maybe this would be a nicer place to hang if the members (me included) would really come here to have an actual and honest debate. I'm sorry to say but most don't.

Debating has nothing to do with calling your opponent names or with flamebaiting or trolling. Silly repartee, word games or semantic has no part in a political debate. Trying to bypass the profanity filter or indirectly insulting members should be acted upon. Some member who presently use those tactics seem to be immune from any moderation even though they have been reported multiple time for it.

Sockpuppet are also a big problem. With the help of IP addresses obfuscating services it is a hard task for the mods to catch them all, but some are so blatently obvious it's not even funny...

In any case, this board has lost quite a few good and serious debater because of this. I wish something can be done before we lose even more and this ends up being just another failed experiment.

In any case, the time is fast approaching when a decision will have to be made about the goal and mission of this site. Do you want it to be a serious political debate forum or do you want it to be a schoolyard?