The Cost of a Border Wall vs. the Cost of Illegal Immigration

That's a funny way to spell "capitalists," but sure. Sad to see so much of the right wing abandon capitalism and abandon the market under Trump.

 

Building a wall does not promote hate towards anyone. It's a wall...wall's do not promote anything on their own.

Besides, there is already a wall there over most of the border...so what is the big deal?

Now, don't get me wrong, I do NOT like that it is not being paid for by a reduction in something else.

But on it's own...it is not a massive expense and if you are going to have a wall, you might as well make it a good one.


You obviously do not agree...so be it.

 

One can be a capitalist without being a globalist

But they cant be a globalist and still put America first

 

Not really.

They can if they understand basic economics. See Adam Smith for, well, both.

 

Oh, those "ultimate" mañana pesos!

Sure! You can have all of those you want!

 

Unemployed Americans would have jobs. Their children would enjoy the benefits of the income from those jobs.

 

That’s racist according to PC dictates.

 

Well, assuming you understand that economics isn't a zero-sum game . . . and? No, immigrants, illegal or otherwise, aren't a negative drain on our native job market.

 

We've stopped the growth of the number of undocumented aliens. THAT is the important point. Yes, we can figure out why it stopped, but it DID stop and has remained stopped.

The fact is that undocumented aliens DO support those features paid for by payroll taxes while not being in a position to take advantage of the benefits those taxes pay for. So, any legitimate dollar accounting needs to give them credit for that contribution.

You are free to propose a guest worker program.

However, please remember that guest worker programs are a way for aliens to arrive and stay.

Also, they displace American workers every bit as much as undocumented labor does. They are still a form of trapped discardable labor without recourse to abuse or representation.

Also, guest workers rely on our system for a range of services that are not free.

Also, a frequent result is concentrations of all male workers with no investment in their location and no motivation other than dollars. I don't see data suggesting that is safer than having families.

 

There are costs of enforcing immigration law and securing the border, and then there are costs associated with policing and obtaining justice for victims of illegals. Both will be reduced by an effective physical barrier between a largely lawless and impoverished South America and North America.

The immutable economic laws of Supply and Demand apply to labor, too.

In the eyes of the overly benevolent and loosely managed Welfare State, illegals are considered "sponsors" of their Jackpot Babies, which permits the entire family to feast on America's 'safety net' infrastructure.

 

Not likely. The physical barrier has its own cost, and most illegal aliens don't cross the border illegally. And the people crossing the Southern border claiming refugee status have legal rights that a wall can't stop.

Glad to hear that, unlike most Trumpeters/nativists/nationalists, you realize that!

Wat?

 

The act of building a wall demonstrates legitimized and established deep disrespect for the nation on the other side of the wall.

I would point out that waste doesn't come in stupendous numbers.

It's not easy to cause savings in the range of the cost estimates of this wall.

Allowing this waste is exactly what gets us to the level of waste that we have.

 

The only guest worker program worth considering is for ag workers and that is only seasonal

Men only no family allowed

They are here to work not spread roots

 

. . . there are actually people who buy that?

 

Do you know the difference between a real problem and one manufactured for the consumption of the uninformed and gullible? Apparently not.

http://www.pewhispanic.org/2015/11/19/more-mexicans-leaving-than-coming-to-the-u-s/

 

What you highlighted in my post was the FACT that this is a way for aliens to come and stay.

Near the end of their term here, they can simply walk away.

What WE want them here for is not necessarily what THEY want to come here for. Many times, the two sides may be in agreement on that. My point is that it is NOT always the case.

They may even have family already here.

 

The problem has been growing since 1986

So there is no quick or easy overnight fix

We start by sealing the border so that the flow of illegal aliens stops

After that we deport every illegal ain with so much as a tradpffic ticket on their record

If there are any remaining illegals who have squeaky clean records they might be allowed to stay

 

But they are. If all those here illegally were removed more US citizens would be employed in the US.

 

The point is that when the economy and employment begins to grow at ~ 4% it is important to block illegals from crossing the border.

 

Uh, no. That's not how economics work. You literally just admitted that you think this is a zero-sum game. Econ 101: economics is not a zero-sum game. I mean *literally* Econ 101. Do I really need to outline the basics of this? I guess I can, but these should be table stakes for anyone with even a basic economics education. The job pool is not a stagnant resource. It grows and shrinks with the economy. If new workers grow the net economy . . . there are more jobs left over than when they started. Hiring these people means more jobs overall. Because you are thinking of this as a finite pie, where cutting out my piece of the pie means less pie for everyone else, but that isn't how economics works. By being involved, I grow the pie. Me getting a bigger piece does not mean a smaller piece for anyone else. The same goes for any other productive work.

 

Illegal immigrantion is a real problem.

Do you know the difference between claiming someone is a racist based on a response to a hypothetical question and actual actions ??

 

Uh yes. Americans would fill the jobs vacated by the illegals removed.

 

Sounds like you would just give up and have open borders

 

The job pool is not a zero-sum. Do you see that, or are you still stuck in pre-econ 101?

 

A very few left wing economist not most.