Thousands of Greeks join far-right Golden Dawn rally video

Of course they reject that association in the same way that the British National Party rejects their former association with the National Front (their forerunners), who were violent racist skinhead thugs. Those skinhead thugs now wear nice suits, but they're still thugs. Do try not to be so naive as to assume Golden Dawn has even a shred of benevolence or altruism in its makeup. Like any other other far-right group it has arisen during a condition of national emergency, fed on people's prejudice and desperation, and ultimately serves nobody but its own interests. If you cannot see that you are truly blind.

 

The 'here and now' is the dangerous rise of opportunist far-right nationalism. Do you want history to repeat itself and have Europe revert to 1933? Maybe you do; personally that prospect terrifies me.

 

If you honestly think that is the biggest danger, then out of respect to your usually switched on posts, I will politely disagree with you.

Go ask the people in Lebanon, Gaza, the WB, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Egypt, Chavez, Mordechai Vanunu, I could go on, who the biggest threat, the ONLY true and global threat are.

 

The enemy of my enemy, is indeed, in this case, my friend.

And it really does sometimes take "thuggery" and courage to defeat an enemy. I have read many of your posts, and you are not my friend.

So you just made me appreciate folks like the golden dawn even more.

 

Greece is in europe, they simply wont be allowed to go too nazi by the west. And its not like they can invade anyone eitjer. And i gotta say, that i very much prefer these guys over any damn communists. I really dont like either, but this is the lesser evil.

 

Anyone who uses the trademark

does not need any help in appreciating Golden Dawn.

 

The ONLY real threat to us ALL are a cabal of international Jewish bankers, and a very tiny number of Jewish family dynasties, who are so powerful (but like to remain OUT of the limelight), that were they gone, and with it their usury, fiat currency, and their penchant for wars, ALL of the World would start to heal.

 

That is not what the video in this Guardian article suggests

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/05/fears-germany-golden-dawn-greece

and according to that article they are already doing their 'invasion' and spreading to Germany.

 

Someone give me a shout when they have 400 undeclared nuke warheads.

 

In Greece, Golden Dawn denied it had established links with neo-nazi groups in Germany. "All this [talk] about neo –nazis is nonsense," said Golden Dawn's spokesman, Ilias Kasidiaris.

Simply there is a big community, a big colony of [ethnic] Greeks in Germany and for that reason the People's Association - Golden Dawn - decided to [set up] a local organisation in Germany too."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/05/fears-germany-golden-dawn-greece


Ooh...the hysteria of it all.

Meantime, have Israel and the US murdered anyone today?

How about the London Gov?

 

No. You are wrong.

 

There were Jews in southern Russia and the Ukraine, but the mass of Jews in Russia were German Jews that came in when Poland was annexed. I believe the Jews were one tenth of the population then. The ideas of the 'enlightenment' they came in with were Western European and it became a threat to the Monarchy. Tsar Alexander III persecuted them harshly after his father was assassinated by a suicide bomber, and it was then that some Jews decided to go to the holy land. This is also the time that Zionism, with its ideals of a Jewish national state came into being.

The Tsars tried to contain the Jews in what was known then as the: Pale of Settlement, an area specifically designated for the Jews. This is from Wikipedea: "[The Pale of Settlement was the term given to a region of Imperial Russia in which permanent residency by Jews was allowed and beyond which Jewish permanent residency was generally prohibited. It extended from the eastern pale, or demarcation line, to the western Russian border with the Kingdom of Prussia (later the German Empire) and with Austria-Hungary. "

The Jews though preferred the wealthier eastern areas of the Empire, rather than the poverty ridden west so there was constant friction. They began killing the dignitaries, and the Russians began killing them. The Jews were given a homeland in one of Russias eastern provinces, but they refused. It's full of oil now, so they should have taken it.

Now let's get on with the subject of this thread: Golden Dawn. The last forum used as an anti Jewish propaganda site ended up being closed down.

 

Right now Greece has been invaded by Afghans, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and other Muslims who have been sent in by Turkey. If they don't free the country, it will become an Islamic state ...once again. The Greeks fought a revolution one hundred eighty years ago to free themselves from four hundred years of 'dhimmitude' and they certainly do not want to end up as slaves again.

There are robberies and killings going on everyday because of these illegals, and the police need Golden Dawn to help them because their hands are tied in many cases by the press and liberals screaming: 'Police brutality'. As for Golden Dawn becoming like the Nazis, that's ridiculous. The Greek culture has no relation to the German one. ..believe me. The Greeks are too busy politicing and fighting among themselves to follow any one leader.

Anyway if you read the news in that part of the world, you would know the surge of 'nationalism' is not from the Greeks, it's from the PM Barisha who wants to extend Albanias borders to include parts of Greece, and Turkey who is making claims on sixteen Greek islands today. Tomorrow they'll probably claim twenty.

 

Lol. That's not allowed! No no. Why challenge specific points, debate properly, and quote accurately, when one can throw their arms in the air, declare 'I am right', and dismiss anything that dares to contradict that. That is not debate, nor is it information, nor is it even really considered opinion. It is ONLY a sort of misplaced smugness, and refusal to either prove a person wrong, while usually then attacking the bringer of the message. To wit, as you can see from the sig of the person you are addressing, you will note sir, that there is now a sudden ref to 'Gilad Atzmon'. The person with this sig knew NOTHING about him, until I educated that person by way of citing him, on PF. Rather than take time to understand why Gilad (an Israeli Jew), now feels nothing but revulsion at Israel and Jewish identity politics, as I have done, by reading about him for the past two years, again, why do that when you can rush right in, forget the significance of WHY he feels that way, and find the first few links to Bloggers that criticise THE MAN?

It is the message that is key, and I find it downright rude when someone has just been made aware of a given name, they Google it, and then lay claim to knowing enough about that man, to start laying into him. I think that is pretty low, esp when compounded by the total refusal to understand WHY and WHAT made him finally realise and see, that Israel and Jewish identity politics were twisted and the opposite of EVERYTHING a normal human being was raised to consider SICK.

No, no, never mind his REASONS or any DETAIL, in true tabloid manner, much easier to trash the man.

Now, let us look at why this man she trashes feels the way he does, and writes as he does.

Detail you see, RA, that is what is key. The how and why. Not these attacks on a man's perceived charachter, but the substance.

So now,let us look at the how and why;

Here we go, here is an Israeli Jew, that speaks the truth, knows better than the person attacking him on PF, here was HIS pivotal moment when he realised Israeli and Jewish identity politics are EVIL.

And she doesn't like him for that? Wow. Just wow.

Read his life changing moment;


Like Mleeta, Khiam the notorious Detention Centre is also a monument to Israeli brutality. Khiam is where Israel detained and tortured its political opponents, in some cases, for as long as 14 years. My visit there reminded me of a devastating memory, which on occasion, I share with my audience. It concerns Ansar, an Israeli concentration camp located in South Lebanon. It was back in 1984, on a piece of flat land in the middle of the camp, I noticed a dozen concrete boxes with small metal doors, they looked like dog kennels being only about 80 cm high, 100 cm long and probably about 80cm wide. When I pointed out to the commanding officer that these concrete construction weren’t suitable for dogs, he told me not to worry: no one would even think of putting dogs in them. “Put a Palestinian in one of those for 24 hours,” he laughed, “And he’ll come out singing the Hatikvah.” They were solitary confinement units for Palestinian prisoners. That was it. Then and there, I realized that Israel was not my country.

In Khiam this week I saw the exact same Israeli torture facility where the Israelis would shove their political opponents into tiny metal boxes, lock them in for days and then occasionally hit the top with a heavy stone. This time I took a picture.


But someone in Israel must have felt some shame at what Israel was leaving behind in Lebanon. In 2006 the IDF attempted to erase all trace of the detention centre at Khiam. In a desperate attempt to hide Israeli brutality, Israel sent in its engineering squads to blow up the cells and all remaining evidence of torture. But that clumsy effort to conceal the true reality of Israeli inhumanity achieved only the complete opposite. It now only affirms that Israel has, indeed, a lot to conceal.


http://www.politicalforum.com/political-opinions-beliefs/283870-gilad-atzmon-truth-teller.html

 

I get the sense that you understand less of the GD, but feel that they may be a party that can make life tough for Muslims, and that this pleases you.

Is that how you want to control the debate, along those lines?

Are the Golden Dawn really just a hobby horse because you hate Muslims?

 

The theoretical model for socialism/communism in the Marxist sense was corrupted in practice by Stalinism. Hence the argument that communism is inherently worse than capitalism - of which fascism is its logical manifestation - is a false one.

 

No it's because I have a close connection to Greece and I don't want it to disappear from the map. Your only concern is to propagandize against Israel. Thirty thousand illegals were shipped in from Turkey in the last three months of 2012 alone. The EU knows what's going on, and they have helicopters guarding the borders. Russia and the U.S. knows as well, but the Islamic propaganda keeps on going, thinking that if it arouses the liberal press with lies and false information, they will be able to expand and renew the Ottoman empire at the expense of the non Muslim nations of the Balkans.

Well they can guess again. As for Israel, well there is now a defense agreement between Greek, Cyprus and Israeli, and it all has to do with the gas deposits in the seas between Cyprus and Israel, and between Greece and Cyprus. So go peddle your garbage about Jews elsewhere.

 

Nor do I.

Or any other good and ancient nation, like Greece.

If this is your position, then you should be very angry that national infrastructure, without any consultation of the people, is being sold to 'foreigners'.

You do that see that as entirely wrong, yes, given that you want to ensure Greece does not effectively dissapear?

That would be key, would it not?

After all, immigrants you can deport any time, but if your INFRASTRUCTURE is in the hands of a foreign few, that is more of a concern, for Greece.

You do at least agree with that, yes?

 

The problem is that Turkish companies have taken over an electric company that supplies northern Greece, some mariners on islands and even an island. Greece's main concern, is to keep everything out of Turkish hands, while at the same time, seeing that countries such as Russia, China and Israel make as many investments in Greece as possible. This way should Greece be attacked, they will be forced to come to its defense. I'm also suspicious of countries such as Qatar investing in Greece, since they have a close connection with Turkey.

 

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you here, trout.

Unlike Capitalism, Socialism/Communism/Collectivism is antithetical to Individual Freedom. As a former socialist here in America once noted, within the seed of Socialism/Communism exists the germ of totalitarianism, which is why Socialism/Communism invariably produces the totalitarianism we've seen in the USSR, Red China, the former nations of the Warsaw Bloc, Communist Vietnam, Cambodia, North Korea, Mengistu's Ethiopia, etc., etc.
.

 

What is 'ridiculous' Jeannette, is your naive belief that somehow a far-right neo-Nazi group can ever be a force for good. As for not behaving like Nazis; fascist salutes, ultra-nationalist posturing, violence against ethnic minorities and gays, football holliganism, their leader's wife calling immigrant minorities 'subhumans'...you name it and Golden Dawn has fascist thuggery and neo-Nazi ideology written all over it. But, hey, keep your head buried in the sand and apologising for them if it makes you feel better. The Greeks already had a taste of German-style fascist thuggery during WW2, and I doubt very much they'd welcome a repeat, Greek-style this time.http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/europe/article3596852.ece

 

Hey don't worry , even if we disappear from the map we will back soon , it has happen before but we are too resilient bastards to let it go

Really ?
All modern socialists were/are kids of the societies they came from and all those societies were highly egalitarian , socialism and in advance communism is about sharing the power , neither Mao or Stalin moved into that direction. By definition socialism is about freedom of the individual and equality . Non of the countries you mentioned embraced socialist ideals outside the banner.

You are a "former socialist" yet you ignore the basics like you can not make it with vanguards and little people taking decisions in little rooms.

 

We're back to the contentious and highly subjective notion of what actually constitutes freedom. Just like liberty, democracy, terrorism etc, it's an abstract term. The paremeters capitalism sets essentially means that one has the freedom to choose between brand A and brand B.

Professor Alex Callinicos in his book 'Equality', was correct to point out that equality and difference are not contested, but rather are interdependent values. Properly understood, an egalitarian conception of justice which socialism presupposes, is not about the imposition of uniformity but about giving everyone an equal opportunity tolive the life that THEY - as a specific individual, with a particular set of capacities, life-history, cultural background and range of needs - have reason to value.

Plainly not all ways of living are consistent with egalitarian justice: it conflicts with hierarchical, authoritarian and exploitative social relationships. But it is a confusion to think that universally valid principles necessarily command universal consent.

 

What does it mean to you?

In your own words?

 

Read all the post and comment on it. Thanks.