What armed self defense really looks like.

Nice to see that you don't oppose background checks outright. Since it would prevent criminals from being able to pick up a gun on every street corner (since laws against straw purchases would be enforceable), this would be a significant improvement.

Clearly, your appeal to motive about "Liberals" is based on nothing considering registration of vehicles is not an effort to "control car owners".
Similarly, I don't see how any lawful citizen's rights would be taken away - since they can pass a background check to obtain a weapon (and already do, when dealing with licensed sellers).

 

Owning a car is not a Constitutionally protected right necessary to the assurance of a free state. I'm all about what works without infringing on our rights.

 

Owning a car is not a Constitutionally protected right necessary to the assurance of a free state. I'm all about what works without infringing on our rights. It May be unnecessary micromanagement, but it doesn't threaten my freedom and ability to protect my family.

 

The Chamber of Commerce?

 

huh.............the NRA didn't even make the tops list............wonder what's up with that.............
wait for it..............wait for it.............

 

The NRA's lobbying effort was $3.36 million in 2014. Not only is it not in the top 20 on the page I linked, it's not even close to #20, who spent $157 million. For someone to characterize this as 'the countries largest lobby' is seriously drunk on the anti-gun kool-aid.

 

Maybe you haven't been paying attention, but there is not a liberal agenda to confiscate cars.
However, in states that have firearm registration, there has been confiscation of certain types of firearms.

You might as well start advocating for registration before you keep talking about background checks. You are putting the cart before the horse.

 

lets treat guns like cars being that tens of thousands fewer are killed with guns than with cars, 1 no back ground needed, 2 no finger prints needed 3 no wait time needed, 4 license is good in every state and can no tbe banned in any city. 5 can buy as many as you want at one time. 5 can be purchased at 18 younger with parents consent. 6 cant be taken without due process, 7 not made illegal becasue of looks 8 no license or registration needed if stays on property.
actually treating guns like cars sounds pretty good.

 

Nope, although I can see why you'd think that if you didn't know that the NRA's lobby is divided amongst 28 seperately recorded lobby groups in order to make themselves seem less influencial.
From your own source: https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientlbs.php?id=D000000082&year=2014

 

Anyone who doesn't know, and is too lazy to find out (probably due to confirmation bias) that the NRA's lobby power is intentionally divided amongst dozens of sub-groups, is simply illustrating that their deceptive tactics are successful at fooling morons.
https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientlbs.php?id=D000000082&year=2014

 

Appeal to motive much? Logical fallacies do not make your position appear any more credible.

Examples?

The goal is background checks. That might require registration - I'm keen to hear any ideas that could implement UBCs without registration. After all, I don't think any of the amatuer enthusiasts on here are subject matter experts.

Besides, as I'm discussing general strategy rather than developing an action plan, I think speaking strategically rather than tactically is not "putting the cart before the horse".

 

So.... What about the NRA qualifies them, in your mind, as....

....or would you like to retract that?

 

Would you say that the Chamber of Commerce being divided into 167 different lobbying groups amounts to deception on their part?

 

This again...?! This position has been repeatedly debunked.
Let's look at two activities:

1) Jumping out of an airplane with no parachute
2) Eating steak.​

More people die each year while eating steak than from jumping out of an airplane with no parachute, but it would not be rational to say that jumping out of a plane with no parachute is therefore safer than eating steak. Why? Because people spend a hell of a lot more time doing one activity than the other.

Similarly, the average American spends a hell of a lot more time with cars than they do with guns. It's really not that complicated.

 

Can you illustrate that that's the case, and that they act in collusion?
The site provided counts only 101 (https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/lookup.php), and each represents a completely seperate group in seperate geographic area with seperate priorities...

 

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/summary.php?id=D000000082
http://www.businessinsider.com/nra-lobbying-money-national-rifle-association-washington-2012-12
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013...oney-and-power-still-holds-sway-over-congress
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_...ra_swing_the_votes_of_so_many_democrats_.html

Besides, has your point deteriorated so completely that you have to equivocation over linguistic minutia (as a blatent red herring) in order to make any semblance of retort?

 

These sources, some biased, accuse the NRA of spending lots of money as a lobbyist group. None of these rank lobby group spending.
NRA doesn't rank in the top 20.

http://wallstcheatsheet.com/busines...e-flooding-congress-with-cash.html/?a=viewall

 

The NRA does not rank in the countries top 20 lobbyists. You claimed they were the countries largest. Would you like to concede the point?

 

Perhaps I could concede that they are not the largest (but probably still the most powerful) IF the donations from various sub-groups of the NRA could be quantified. Good luck with that, that information has been made difficult to quantify... I wonder why?

 

167, as I stated.

https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientlbs.php?id=D000019798&year=2014

Each and every lobbying group has multiple lobbyists that focus on various parts of the mission towards a common goal. It does not mean they are engaging in deception. It's just how lobbying works. The NRA's lobbying group is no different from any of the others.

The amount of money that all 28 NRA lobbyists COMBINED ($3.6M) spent lobbying does not rank them in the top 20, although you said they were the nation's biggest. Would you like to concede the point?

 

Not difficult to quantify at all. Here is the information you seek: By group and amount spent.

Would you care to show how you come to your 'probably the most powerful', assumption? I'd be surprised to know that a lobbying group who does not rank anywhere near the top 20 could be more powerful than the Chamber of Commerce.

 

That's a great snapshot of about $3.5M spent by those 7 subgroups... Are you suggesting the other 75% of them sat on their hands?

Are you suggesting there's another lobby group that's demonstrated they can buy politicians into blatantly ignoring their constituents and still walk away with a rabid fan base?
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/17/politics/senate-guns-vote/
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/04/24/5-facts-about-the-nra-and-guns-in-america/

 

Actually, this is what armed self defense really looks like:

Aren't you glad she had a gun? ..........oooooooor would you rather her have been raped and killed?

 

The source you provided gave this as the source of that story: http://www.wnem.com/story/28004023/police-11-year-old-scares-intruder-away-with-shotgun

I notice there's never any question about the responsibility of parents who leave an 11 year old girl home alone in a neighborhood that's experienced over 50 burglaries within a two month period.

What I'd "rather" (since you asked) is that her parents were responsible enough to be home with their daughter. Houses that are occupied with more than little girls tend to be less attractive targets for criminals.

All that being said, thanks for being the first conservative I can remember on this forum to demonstrate that 50+ year old white guys can also be criminal thugs. Good thing he wasn't armed, right?

 

The NRA doesn't have to BUY U.S. Politicians as the NRA is widely held up by the majority of American's as a group that does a lot of good.

Now it is true that the NRA does lobby in a way that helps U.S. Gun Manufacturers but as the NRA runs Firearm Safety Programs along with local Police in just about every town and city in the United States and such programs teach both adults and children how to treat every firearm as if it was loaded whether you know it is or not....and teach adults and children how to safely use, carry, shoot, store...etc...firearms with their joint programs which help lower the number of accidental gun related deaths....most American's very much view the NRA as a positive entity.

AboveAlpha