Why are people who describe themselves as "Progressives" in favor of Hamas and Iran?

Hamas is a terrorist organization
I support destroying Hamas
I do not support killing mostly women and children to do so — if we are going to do that why not just nuke it and get it over with

Oh right, some in the IDF have said they look forward to being able to have beach homes soon.

 

Your response lacks substance and relies heavily on personal attacks rather than addressing the points raised. Resorting to name-calling and baseless accusations does not strengthen your argument; it weakens it.

Equating the actions of Hamas, a designated terrorist organization responsible for numerous attacks on civilians, with Ukraine's defense against foreign aggression is a flawed comparison. Ukraine's situation involves defending its sovereignty against a foreign invader, while Hamas's actions involve targeting civilians in pursuit of its political objectives.

Regarding the conflict in Syria, attributing the rise of ISIS solely to the actions of the Obama administration oversimplifies a complex situation. The emergence of ISIS was influenced by various factors, including regional instability, sectarian tensions, and the power vacuum created by the Iraq war. Blaming one individual or administration ignores the broader context of the conflict.

Your characterization of President Biden as "Genocide Joe" and your assertion that he supports radical Islamist terrorist groups lack factual basis. Such inflammatory language detracts from meaningful discourse and perpetuates misinformation. It's essential to engage in constructive dialogue based on facts rather than resorting to derogatory labels and unfounded accusations.

Furthermore, your claim that Iran was solely responsible for fighting ISIS while the Obama administration supported them is misleading. The fight against ISIS involved multiple actors and coalitions, including Iraqi and Kurdish forces, Syrian Democratic Forces, and international allies. Painting a simplistic picture of the conflict overlooks the complexities involved and undermines efforts to address the root causes of terrorism.

Overall, resorting to insults and oversimplifications does not advance your argument. Constructive dialogue requires engaging with the complexities of international relations and acknowledging the nuances of each situation rather than relying on divisive rhetoric and unsubstantiated claims.

 

Palestine is the aggressor. They could have peace tomorrow they would just tolerate jews.

 

I repeat. I don't vote. What I want from government is less of it and voting creates the opposite.

 

You were not insulted but resort to insults and denial .. as if this is a argument. Obama's Proxy army in Syria was the Islamic State .. which was run by Al Qaeda and ISIS ..

 

You were not insulted .. not personally attacked .. and Genocide Joe's nickname is well deserved .. and while insulting .. .. Stating that a Fat person is Fat .. does not change the fact that they are fat because they are insulted by the statement.

The fact on the table that you are desperately avoiding ..making baseless and false accusations against the messenger - is that the Islamic State was are Proxy Army in Syria .. To this you cry out .. Its complicated - "The emergence of ISIS was influenced by various factors, including regional instability"

The various factors related to the emergence of ISIS does not change the fact that Obama .. along with a coalition of 30 nations .. armed, supplied and supported the groups that went on to form the Islamic State in 2013. ISIS in Iraq was one of hundreds of Islamist Jihadist groups who coalesced into a new Islamic State .. the two main groups leading this new State were Al Qaeda and ISIS .. like states or provinces .. each ran different areas of the empire.

and Yes .. the effort of 30 nations arming, supporting and supplying this proxy army was complicated .. what was also complicated was explaining what was going on to the US Public .. the Propaganda machine full tilt when things got out of control and our Dog in Syria went off leash and into Iraq. Now Obama had big problem .. as described by Rand Paul on CNN in 2014 .. We were fighting ISIS in Iraq .. but on the same side in Syria .. and Yup .. was complicated.

Your claim that I stated Iran was solely responsible for fighting ISIS - a ridiculous falsehood - strawman fallacy. I claimed no such thing .. I told you Iran was fighting the radical Islamist terrorists that the US was arming and supporting .. and did so for 5-6 years ... continued the support long after we knew about the horrific genocide being committed by our Proxy Army .. the Islamic State. (IS)

"Stop Arming Terrorist Act" --- Obviously congress did not think the claim that we were arming and supporting the Islamic State in Syria was baseless.. the point of the act being to stop this activity. so obviously your horrified reaction " its baseless" .. is baseless.

What's complicated was Obama's "Moderate Rebel Lie" -- that the Islamic State was really comprised of a bunch of Moderates .. a full throated lie .. the NY-Times reporting back in 2012-13 that any semblance of moderates has disappeared. .. prior to IS existing .. this was prior to dog going off leash . was an open secret the "Covert arms Program " at the time.. In 2015 long after the formation of IS .. Obama is trying to peddle the moderate Rebel lie .. goes out to try to find equip and train some moderate soldiers .. this is a huge Joke .. the war is now in its 4th year .. The Islamic State in full control of its new state .. and at the height of its power .. knocking on Assads door in Demascus .. Assad on the ropes .. have taken over large parts of Iraq. Was in late 2015 when Russia came in to prevent Assad from being overthrown .. Iran and Hezbolla were already there fighting against the Radical Islamist Terrorists ..

Nothing complicated about the fact that by 2015 .. any moderate that once existed was working for IS, and as an IS-Soldier arming this "moderate rebel".. is arming IS. It was a silly lie to begin as there was never any moderate groups of any significance in the battle .. and what few did exist initially disappeared in the first year of the war. Not a single major city in Syria under IS control was run by "Moderates" -- ISIS, Al Qaeda, and a couple other smaller but equally radical groups .. all with the goal of bringing Strict Sharia --- dark age style - radical Sunni .. El Saud inspired .. extremist ideology.

Do you have any idea what the folks we were arming -supporting- supplying were doing to the people in the cities under their control ? Would you like to be waking up in Aleppo after the "Moderate Rebels" took over the city .. to save you from the Evil Assad .. with truly Massive support from a coalition of 30 nations.

Did you have the faintest idea the size and scope of the effort support our Islamic State Proxy Army -- They brought over all the stuff left over from the war in Yugoslavia .. divisions of tanks .. that supposedly a rag tag band of moderates managed to arrange. .. sneaking howitzers over the border in back packs -- give me a break already.

"Stop Arming Terrorist Act" --- hopefully the person you root for politically voted YES .. unfortunately the odds of that being the case are very low. How about Tulsi for President ? Hillary's favorite Russian Spy .. oh oh ... Patri .. was that kankles hurling insults ? not surprising since Hillary needs to be "Locked UP" for her role in arming Al Qaeda .. Al Nusra .. ISIS .. and lying about it before congress .. did you forget about Benghazi ?? Lock Her .. UP !

 

Not necessarily -- as if you have 3 choices ... and one of those choices is for less Gov't .. but the other two are for more Gov't .. and there is a tie between all 3 .. and because no clear winner the 2 pro Gov't sides will form a coalition .. but your vote would push the anti gov't side over the top your vote would create less Gov't

Now of course this is a fantasy world -- and there is no choice for less Gov't in the real world both Red and Blue love spending and increasing power -- and thus - your claim will be mostly true

 

I don't think many people on Israel's side support killing civilians. That is a left wing talking point. How many civilians were killed due to Hamas using them for "sandbags".
Who builds missile storage under hospitals? Hamas.

 

Like most things, progressives look at the world through an emotional/moral lens with little insight into why things are the way they are or what caused things to be the way they are.

I think that's the case in this situation.

I place all blame for the current war. (and it is a war) on Hamas.

- They started this war on Oct 7th by committing a terrorist attack so large and so violent of which could not be ignored and demanded a response.
- It's leader on Nov 1 promised 100's more "Oct 7ths" and declared the ENTIRE GAZA POPULATION as martyrs! "we are a nation of martyrs"
- Hamas refuses to release the hostages and surrender. The two conditions that would end this conflict, even to this day.

So that's where we are. In a conflict where Israel is forced in dealing with Hamas and removing them from Gaza and Hamas has decided it's people will be it's shield and defense to wage a war it can't win. The group of people who support hamas also hate anything American, and want America to reset and devolve from what it is today. They are your ANTIFA or BLM groups mostly and will latch on to any movements that go against America or American interests.

 

I have never heard a single person on the left say it was a majority opinion from Israelis that they liked civilians being killed. I specifically said IDF. If you want to make accusations about propaganda at least make sure you haven’t invented the argument.

In the end though, the IDF is killing more civilians than they are killing terrorists. If you feel the need to justify that then that is your right, but I will disagree.

 

Do you think if an agreement is reached Hamas will not just re arm and do it again down the road?
Lastly would Hamas renounce the “Kill Jews where you find them” they use for marching orders”
Surah 3:151: "We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve (all non-Muslims) …"
Surah 2:191: "And kill them (non-Muslims) wherever you find them … kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers (non-Muslims)."
Not a lot of room for negotiation.

 

I'm an English literature student. Not illiterate.

 

Then you should know better than to invent definitions.

 

Strawman.

 

Hamas is a terrorist organization

I don’t know how to break that into simpler words for you to understand

Do you want me to quote similar passages in the Bible or the Tanakh? Because they all call for the death or eternal damnation for non-believers.

 

I don't have time to go down the Obama/syria rabbit hole, so I'll let COPILOT do it, and if you can refute any points, which are annotated to sources, feel free to do so:

 

Your attempt to equate Hamas's attacks on civilians with Ukraine's defense against foreign aggression is misguided. Hamas deliberately targets civilians in its attacks, which is a clear violation of international law. Ukraine, on the other hand, is defending its territorial integrity against an unlawful invasion by Russia. The situations are fundamentally different, and your comparison lacks nuance.

Regarding the conflict in Syria, while it's true that various factors contributed to the emergence of ISIS, including regional instability, it is inaccurate to solely blame the Obama administration for its rise. ISIS's formation was a complex process involving multiple actors, including extremist groups and state sponsors. The suggestion that Obama armed and supported ISIS is not supported by credible evidence and is often propagated as a conspiracy theory.

Your assertion that Iran was solely responsible for fighting ISIS while the U.S. supported them is a misrepresentation of the facts. The fight against ISIS involved numerous actors, including Kurdish forces, Iraqi security forces, Syrian Democratic Forces, and international coalitions. Iran's involvement in Syria and Iraq was part of its broader regional agenda and cannot be simplistically framed as solely combating ISIS.

The "Stop Arming Terrorist Act" you mentioned does not prove that the U.S. was arming ISIS. It aimed to address concerns about the unintended consequences of providing support to certain rebel groups in Syria, not to accuse the U.S. government of directly supporting terrorism. Such legislation reflects the complexities of interventionist policies and the need for careful scrutiny of arms transfers in conflict zones.

Additionally, your characterization of Obama's policies as a "Moderate Rebel Lie" oversimplifies the complexities of the Syrian conflict. While there were indeed efforts to support moderate opposition groups initially, the situation on the ground evolved rapidly, and extremist factions gained prominence. Blaming Obama for the rise of ISIS overlooks the broader geopolitical dynamics at play and absolves other actors of responsibility.

Overall, your arguments rely on simplistic narratives and conspiracy theories that lack factual basis. Engaging in meaningful discourse requires a nuanced understanding of complex issues and a willingness to consider multiple perspectives rather than resorting to inflammatory rhetoric and unsubstantiated claims.

 

MAKE THE RUBBLE BOUNCE: Captured Hamas Operatives Say Group Collapsing.

The Weak Horse

'senior Hamas operatives captured by troops in the Gaza Strip have told interrogators “the group is collapsing from within.”'

Stay on 'em.

“In the last week or two, hundreds of terrorists have been captured and what they say about what happened to them tells the whole story. They say that Hamas is collapsing from within, the price they are paying is very heavy,” Gallant said following an assessment at the 98th Division’s headquarters.

Everyone involved in 10/7/23

'“We’re going to eliminate everyone who was involved in the events of October 7, the junior [officials], the senior ones and the very senior ones; those who were inside [Israel] or who gave instructions,” he said, referring to the date of Palestinian terror group Hamas’s massive attack on Israel that started the ongoing war.'

'They may be collapsing now, but the Shifa operation demonstrated why Israel can't assume that to be the case. They had cleared Shifa early in the war, only to discover that Hamas reconstituted its command-control functions there afterward. The same will happen throughout Gaza unless Israel finishes Hamas off in Rafah, where Hamas remains organized and able to conduct strategic operations. '

You can't leave just a little cancer, they must destroy ALL of it.

 

That terrorist group has been killing innocent women and children in Israel since 1987.

 

What a cut and past joke friend.. .. no relevant information for the most part with a touch of propaganda falsehood here and there and most dreadfull sin of omission.

• During the Syrian civil war, the U.S. supported certain rebel groups opposing the Assad regime.
• The CIA program called “Timber Sycamore” provided training and weapons to these rebels.
• Some of these arms did end up in the hands of various factions, including those affiliated with ISIS. However, this was not intentional support for ISIS.

The above a complete citation from your link is a lie -- misrepresentation .. and deadly sin of omission. The US did not support certain rebel groups - a complete mischaracterization .. All the rebel groups fighting against Assad directly coalesced into a new Islamic State in 2013 --

Timber Sycamore which happened years later .. was a publicity stunt .. a lie .. trying to generate substantiation for the moderate Rebel Lie.

But this is ancient history you are trying to re-write. The US - Leading a coalition of 30 nations -- was supporting the Islamic State.... The training by the US of any rebels would be members of the Islamic State .. and so all the arms ended up with the Islamic State... but all the arms of the Islamic State was coming from the US and partners ..

Sorry mate .. the "Stop arming Terrorist Act" came about because Obama was Arming Al Qaeda and ISIS in Syria .. our proxy army .. along side Brother EL Saud in 2 wars .. the other being Yemen .. where Al Qaeda also fought as our proxy .. against those bad bad Houthi's .. Genocide Joe earning .. Complicity in crimes against humanity in that affair .. from the ICC .. prior to the US stacking it after that .. hence why they have yet to even get to Syria

but the history has been written .. and one day the International court will get to it .. and the history books will record Genocide Joe his full title. 500,000 dead civilians is rather impressive .. Put's Bibi to shame on the basis of number exterminated ... those Arabs .. who .. like the Palestinians have no right to self defense like Ukraine according to Patricio Logic ... Them Brown people don't count for as much when it comes to Bibi and Biden .. not like those Azov Nazi's in Ukraine in any case. ...

Sorry -- necessary illusion bubble alert -- In the war in Syria .. Assad vs Islamic State -- we were on the side of the Islamic State .. U Understand ? .. and just like Russia beat our Proxies in Ukraine .. they beat our proxies in Syria .. our JV-Team in Syria. .. and don't forget Benghazi .. Lock Her up !

 

A blistering Strawman - I made no such equivocation -- but your inference that the Azov Nazi's did not conduct attacks on civilians is quite misguided indeed.

I am talking about the same right to self defense of their territorial incursion .. be it Ukrainians or Palestinians .. ruled as such by the UN .. what the heck are you talking about.

"Hamas deliberately targets civilians" -- was a joke of a comment .. Israel deliberately targets civilians a whole lot ore than Hamas .. Israel using Human shields according to your definition of the term. The Azov Nazi's deliberately targeted Civilians as well .. why is it that you think Congress banned arms sales or any support going to the group in 2018.

and Number 2) a complete fail. What do Hamas doing what they do -- have to do with the collective punishment of Gaza .. other than one don't justify the other .. again according to the UN .. so no need to take my word for it. What part of ... collective punishment is a war crime ... missed your desk.. what part of major Crimes against humanity was not crystal clear for anyone remotely familiar with what is going on .. Every nation in the world agreeing that Bibi is way over the line .. sans the Dog being wagged by the Tail . USA .. the Brits sniffing butt close behind .. but that's it .. Every other nation on the planet condemning this Ethnic Cleansing .. and extermination campaign

So interesting how the Prog Blue is Neocon as can be.... not like the Democrats of old .. and nothing resembling classical liberalism.

 

They have. That’s why they need to be eradicated

Now tell me, what would you say needs to be done if an organized group has killed 30,000 people — mostly women and children — in the last 6 months alone?

 

And any that survive will be hell bent on killing again.

 

This is a lie. Are you a liar? Or are you just ignorant of the Liberal position?

 

... Um .. yes it does .. its what Tulsi Gabbard stated as the reason for the Act .. naming Al Qaeda - Al Nusra and ISIS specifically.

"Very simply, it addresses an urgent action that is necessary. Right now, under current U.S. law, it wouldn't surprise people to know that it is illegal for any American to provide any support, whether it's money, weapons or other assistance, to al-Qaida or ISIS or other terrorist groups.

Yet the U.S. government has been violating this law for years by quietly supporting allies, partners, individuals and groups who are working directly with al-Qaida, ISIS, Jabhat Fateh al-Sham and other terrorist groups by providing them with money, weapons and intelligence support in their fight to overthrow the Syrian government."Rep. Tulsi Gabbard Introduces Bill To Halt U.S. Arms Supplies To Syrian Allies : NPR

Here is a more detailed and comprehensive report of how the US was arming the insurrection very early on .. prior to the groups the US and coalition partners were arming coming together to form the Islamic State in 2013

How America Armed Terrorists in Syria
How America Armed Terrorists in Syria - The American Conservative