How much of Palestine should the Arabs get back? - <MOD WARNING>

The whole area belonged to England and France before it was divvied up after WW2. They should have made Israel larger, as well as no West Bank or Gaza.

 

Well, it is one interesting opinion for sure... Why should England and France make a bigger Israel and no Palestine - what did they owed the zionists?

I mean - why not give Japan to the Irish (as Ben Freedman said) since we're there?

 

You are trying to simplify historical facts under an overwhelming false emotional premise.
Here is a paper by Prof. J. Nedava that might elucidate and clarify what is still unclear in your mind.


THE FIRST PARTITION OF PALESTINE

It is customary to refer to the arbitrary act by which Great Britain separated, in respect of some fields of activity, Trans-Jordan from Palestine, as the first partition of Palestine. This description, however, ought to be somewhat qualified. The circumstances were these:

In July 1920, Emir Feisal, who had a few months previously been proclaimed King of Syria, was expelled from Damascus, following a French ultimatum. In reprisal for his brother's expulsion, Emir Abdullah came up with a force of 1200 troops from the Hedjaz to attack the French. The British could easily have frustrated his adventure. The sight of a single British airplane might perhaps have been sufficient to make them take to their heels; but the British were tired even of a symbolic show of force, preferring to come to an understanding with Abdullah. In a half hour's talk in which Winston Churchill, Lawrence and Herbert Samuel, the High Commissioner for Palestine, participated, Abdullah was persuaded to administer Trans-Jordan under the supervision of the High Commissioner, and the British Parliament voted by way of further inducement a substantial grant-in-aid for his new administration.

This first "whittling down" of the Mandate was soon formalized in the Mandate itself. An additional article (25) was included in the draft, which reads as follows. "In the territories lying between the Jordan and the eastern boundary of Palestine as ultimately determined, the Mandatory shall be entitled, with the consent of the Council of the League of Nations, to postpone or withhold application of such provisions of this mandate as he may consider inapplicable to the existing local conditions, and to make such provision for the administration of the territories as he may consider suitable to those conditions, provided that no action shall be taken which is inconsistent with the provisions of articles 15, 16 and 18."

Its effect was, therefore, to make the provisions of the Balfour Declaration inapplicable to the territories east of the Jordan. But there was no question of altering the nature of sovereignty or introducing a radical change of status. Trans-Jordan continued to be a part of Palestine, administered by the Colonial Office and subject to the supervision of the Permanent Mandates Commission of the League of Nations. At first the arrangement with Abdullah was for six months, and its temporary nature was evident from the very formulation of Article 25; under it, the Mandatory Power was merely "to postpone or withhold" the application of the Jewish National Home provisions, not to exclude them. Dr. Ernst Frankenstein, the eminent international lawyer, suggests that the French text is even more explicit; it speaks of the right "de retarder ou suspendre," and "suspendre" means "a provisional arrangement which leaves things in suspense. " It can further be noted that the extension of the Jewish National Home to Trans-Jordan would become possible in due course, when the local conditions there were ripe for economic development.

Unpalatable as the measure was, the Jewish Agency had to accept it under duress. On September 16, 1922, the British government submitted to the Council of the League of Nations a memorandum regarding the Palestine Mandate; no change in the Mandate was asked for, and the application of Article 25 was somehow explained away. The Council approved the memorandum.

Yet the Churchill-Abdullah arrangement did not pass without protest. Some friends of Zionism were aghast at the letting down of the Jews by the British Government. They pointed out that over three-fourths of the original area allotted to the Jewish National Home had been "taken out of circulation." The Palestine Mandate extended over 46,000-sq. m. (I 18,00 sq. k.) - 35,500-sq. m. (91,000-sq. k.) representing Trans-Jordan and 10,500-sq. m. (27,000-sq. k.) Cis-Jordan. Col. Richard Meinertzhagen, Chief Political Officer in Palestine until 1919 and later holder of an important position at the Colonial Office under Churchill, bitterly inveighed against his chief for having committed the grave mistake of reducing the area of the Jewish National Home to one-third of Biblical Palestine. (MIDDLE EAST DIARY, 1917-1956, p. I 00). He resented the handing over of Trans-Jordan, an integral part of Palestine, to "a mere upstart, a useless figure-head" who could not maintain himself for an instant without British bayonets and large subsidies.

This act of injustice rankled with him for many years. He urged that Abdullah's tenure should cease, for he foresaw "that eventually the Jews would attain sovereignty in Palestine and I did not wish them to be surrounded on all sides by hostile Arabs; moreover, as the Jewish population increased, they would require more land."

Bibliography: - Prof. J. Nedava

 

Benjamin Freedman? the self-hating Jew?

 

Oops, was the League of Nations.

 

I think what is clear is that he hated communists; In his days, the two terms were pretty much the same. I know he converted to Christianism. Is it necessary to be hating Jews to do that?

Anyway, this is of little interest to me: What interests me is what he said about the end of WWI, the Balfour declaration and the Versailles Treaty (that he attended). He walked the corridors of power and as such, what he has to reveal about them is worth my attention.

 

yeah, if one was a hateful and ignorant bigot.

his conspiratorial claims about the Jews are baseless crap

 

Based on what? His emotions towards a religious group (he couldn't hate his own genes, does he)? It's irrelevant: Sir AC Doyle was a racist - Lovecraft was even worse; I still read their books in spite of it. Almost all of the musicians I like were adulterers and drug users. So what? It's not their personal lives that I am interested in - it's their opus.

Freedman was there, and he talked with the main actors of a great drama. He couldn't be an ignorant even if he wanted to. His input is welcomed as far as I am concerned, and is worth a relevant response - not a "shoot the messenger" treatment like the one you have in mind. That's too cheap.

If you find failings in what Freedman said, tackle them on. Merely dismissing him because of something in his private life being just won't cut it with me.

 

How about none of 0.15% of the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing land Israel currently occupy? There's plenty of it on the East Bank of Jordan River, and Palestinians can join with their brothers to build a bright future to themselves. I guaranty, the Israelis will never want any part of it.

 

I suppose because after WW2, the Arabs, Egyptians, and other mideasterneers in that area had homelands to which to return. The Jews, dispersed from multiple nations, had none. But alas, the answer springs to mind...give the Jews their ancient homeland which is now(at that time) in our hands. And VIOLA!, problem solved. Not to mention, prophecy fulfilled. Clearly the Turks didn't see that coming when they attacked Europe and lost it all in WW1. And neither the victors. The return of Israel is Gods will.

 

Wow... just... wow.

Thank you. I now understand everything.

 

Well, everyone has a point of view. And that's mine.

 

I'm going to sit back and enjoy this for a moment, you're working so hard to make just one handful of your untruths stick to the side of the barn.

You should take a break and reassess your motives for promoting historical falsehoods when the opposite is staring you in the face.

 

Why won't the PA accept renouncing terrorism against Israel and use none terrorism or use diplomacy to gain international support for Statehood?
There will always be saboteurs the most obvious saboteurs are Hamas follow by the PA.
The worse apartheid are Hamas and the present Muslim nations ruling under Islamic laws.

 

Ever since the Europeans left and gave the Muslims their independence there has been a continue insecurity and instability with the inability of Arabs to rule without resorting to authoritarianism or Islamism. The Europeans should come back and rule the Middle East is another solution for peace in that region.

 

Understandable, I bet you are from the rich end, I had two arcades on Walthamstow road, great people never any trouble. Rich, middle class kids with a superiority complex might well get a good kicking if they bring their attitude into the real world.

 

The Palestinians have two choices: Be resistant and fight the zionist abuse, or be peaceful and endure zionist abuse, like it happens in the West Bank. If Palestine was a woman, it would be choice between "playing limp" against a bigger, mean rapist, or try to kick him below the belt (at the rapist's enduring outrage).

What would you do yourself?

Hamas, sworn ennemy of Israel... Is it because they are "terrorists", or simply because they represent the Palestinians? Even meek and obedient Abbas gets taxed as a terrorist sometimes. And if Hamas is so bad, why did Israel all but created it?

What, you didn't know that? Yes, Israel facilitated the creation of Hamas to fight was was the antichrist then, PLO. Now what will Isreal create as a new Frankenstein to eliminate Hamas... ISIL, maybe? Why doesn't Israel fight ISIL instead of giving it aid and comfort? Tell that to me, O virtuous crusader.

 

Yes you scum always endorse violence on white people by immigrants. It will all end within a few decades, it will start in German and Sweden where Muslims have acted the worst and the left have allowed the worse attacks. Voting for anti migrant parties is growing. The Social democrats are being thrown out of office and indigenous people are fighting back. You only need to look at the votes for the Sweden Democrats and how they have doubled every election. Lefty governments are being called on their lies. Rape gangs are no longer being tolerated. We are all sick to death of disgusting corrupt rapist Muslims and the left and their pathetic lies are falling on deaf ears.

In Scandanavian countries and Germany vigilantes are forming to fight back and the people support it. You and your reign of terror will soon be coming to an end. Muslims can shut up and kow tow or get out, preferably the latter. They asked for it and they will get it and you can join them with your pro rape traitors. You have used violence against us for too long and now expect a long awaited backlash.

- - - Updated - - -

The rest of teh arab world pledge support but really they hate Hamas and dont give a damn about palestinians because they are the scum of the arab world. Israel will always win and since the Palestinians are pathetic at fighting then slowly and steadily Israel will 'boil the frog' and wipe out the palestinian people,,a peaople too stupid to settle for peace.

 

Occidental fcked the ME political and social ecosystem by backing up Israel, eliminating democratically elected Mossadegh in Iran and by generally supporting monarchies, that they corrupted for oil and sphere of infuence, and by generally having remarkably short-sighted goals that never, ever gave importance to the people underneath it all. When it didn't worked, the west then backed up extremist groups like the Mudjahidins and Hamas (for Israel). In nearly all cases the Frankenstein escaped the control of its so-called masters.

The US would be better trying to fix their own social and political problems, instead of blundering about in the ME like a lummox. We are living in a less and less free civilisation since the "war on terror".

 

We should have kept the oil fields and ignored the rest of the backward (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s. We do need to expel them from Europe.

 

Israel supports ISIL. Enough said.

 

Yes sunshine and when the far right have finished with the Muslims, they will come looking for the Jews, and the only ones standing between them and you will be working class lefty scum like me!

 

Bull(*)(*)(*)(*). No one has any interest in Jews apart from a small number of neo Nazis. the EDL are openly pro Israel, as are Pegida etc

You lot have stood by ignoring the open antisemitism of your Muslim mates.

Muslims are the enemy. Expel them

 

Dream on, you clearly know nothing of the people on the streets who make up the far right, they are just as happy picking on Jews as Muslims.

Oh and it might have escaped your notice but there has not been a left wing government in the UK since the 70's so any immigrants have come in because of Tory or Tory light policies.

 

that is a lie.

a baseless, unsupported lie.