How much of Palestine should the Arabs get back? - <MOD WARNING>

No, Britain has a justice system where people are trained to understand law, and the law is equal whether you are a Jew or any other person. It is a concept used in most of the rest of the world!

 

Yes, we have worked out that you like to insult people only when your safe, never to their face.

You are being abusive to an entire nation merely because they are Paki's,! But you think that's alright because you only do it safe behind a keyboard.

No you made that up, going around making things up about people might get you into trouble in the real world too!

No just that European Jews colonised an area where the indigenous population was ignored, apparently that's ok though by you as they are filth and scum.

Certainly will be if your Neo-Nazi friends get into power, best get used to it if you are going to support them!

 

An entire nation...thanks for confirming to me that they are a different 'nation' to me.

Made nothing up. face it. You want people who have different political views attacked by leftist thugs. Well since you think its ok to use thugs on the street how about we get some thuhgs of our own?

Israel was colonised by Jews from all over the world-especially the middle East where Muslim governments expelled them (and stole all their property' but thats OK in your mind because 'holy Islam'

I have no neo nazi friends. However your muslim friends ceratinly quote a lot of neo nazi stuff but its OK to be a neo nazi when you are Muslim


I get it. You think political violence is acceptable. Well once we get a bit more of it I think you will find we jews have deep pockets and we can fund private security of our own.

 

Paki, is abusive slang for Pakistani, I kind of thought you might understand the insults you use!

Again you are making it up, no where do I want people with different political views attacked on the streets, so where I have written, you cant, because you made it up!

Once again I detest Islam as much as Judaism or Christianity, but you continue to lie, cause that's what people like you do.

You prefer Neo Nazis to Muslims, none of my Muslim friends support antisemetic or neo nazi ideas, or they wouldn't be my friends, neither as it happens does any of my Jewish friends.

Certainly, would you like me to provide you with a quote? I must warn you though that we employ blacks, paki's and filthy muslims(as you call them) and if you were to utter your views around them you would be taken to court in the UK. Private Security training and regulation is quite strict, it tends to exclude the racist and bigots.

 

Reasoning about choosing among the available options, following my approach [which is evidently influenced by the history of unification of Italy and of Germany, I've got Italian and German roots], I prefer the first one: Gaza and the West Bank. No more than that.

In any case, I still ponder the eventuality that Jordan or an other Arab country gives some lands to Palestinians to compensate eventual further losses in favor of Israel.

This said, I would spend some words about the other options, considering them together.

There is a problem: usage of force. UN resolutions, peace talks, negotiations, diplomacy ... all great things ... on paper. Reality is quite different. Almost the entire world has discussed the matter of ME and the Israel-Arabs conflicts, but from far, distant places. The two sides are in direct contact [physical contact!] and the confrontation there is a well different matter.

So, until the international community won't be ready [and it will never be ready] to send land forces [military forces] to impose any new geopolitical lay out [different from the present one] ... all will be simply about papers.

Statesmen should follow common sense and pragmatism.

The majority of Palestinians and Israelis are not against the existence of two states [one Jewish and the other Arab]. This is the starting point.

My personal suggestion is to restart from a white sheet of paper, from this situation, leaving in the past all the agreements, treaties, UN resolutions ...

Of course, this would require a new definitive UN resolution.

 

IMO the Arabs are pretty much satisfied with their borders. Egypt and Jordan is at peace with Israel. Lebanon and Syria's issue has to do with some minor border issues such as the Golan Heights for Syria which Israel is ready to hand it back just waiting for the civil war in Syria to settle down.

Palestinian main issue is Hamas. There are two governments in Palestine, Hamas and the Palestinian authority or PA. Israel have no problem with the PA the problem is Hamas because of their terrorism policies against Israel. The failure or refusal of the PA to work with allies to defeat Hamas or convince Hamas to renounce terrorism is the main stumbling block to peace and the creation of a Palestinian State. As long as Hamas refused to renounce terrorism and the PA in ability to police their own ranks no amount of UN resolution will work.

Hamas is giving Israel the excuse to expand settlement.

 

That last line is the only thing about your post that isn't hopelessly naive or mis-informed.

 

What is naive is denying and ignoring the facts of history and current events.
History, that Israel went through official process of having the State of Israel recognize by the UN. Muslim neighbors violated UN resolution by invading another UN member State. Israel sign treaties with Jordan and Egypt with Jordan ceding control of Jerusalem, Israel total withdrawal and returning the Sinai peninsula back to Egypt which Egypt lost during the 1967 war of aggression against Israel. Palestinian claiming territories West bank and Gaza Strip were former territories part of Jordan. Jordan after losing the 1967 war of aggression against Israel were responsible for the Palestinians not Israel.

Present currently, Palestinians have voted into power Hamas and have supported them in waging wars against Israel a war that was supposed to between Palestinians vs Jordan is now about Palestinian and Israel. As long as Palestinians chose terrorism and war against Israel there will be no peace and there will be no Palestinian State.
Israel is able to settle with Egypt and Jordan no reason Israel can not settle with Palestinians once Palestinians renounce terrorism and recognize Israel.

 

Except the UN didn't mind the concerns of those most affected by its decision - Palestinians. They have been presented with a raw deal that they protested, to no avail. It's like if you were a designated rape victim; you don't agree, but very serious men said that it was the right thin, because the rapist has been matyrized before (not by the victim, mind you)

Funny how you are outraged that Palestinians didn't obey UN demands, while Israel ignore them to the point that their leaders can't travel outside Israel (and the US) for fear of being arrested for war crimes in front of an international tribunal.

As any other people in the world would have done in their place. And with retrospect, they were right.

"War of aggression"? Israelis attacked first. And only US money keep Egypt and Jordan leaders quiet; their people hates Israelis, much like everybody else in the world except USians.

Jordan and Palestine are two separate entities. Pelastinians are not Jordanians whose goal in life is to poison Israel's existance. There are former inhabitants of Palestine before it was chopped out.

Hamas - bid deal. Your attitude towards Hamas shows how young and ignorant you are. Let me tell you about Hamas.

First, for all it's blather, Hamas is relatively tame. If you remember the PLO's times, in which they hijacked planes and on the international scene, Hamas limits its aggression on the aggressors. It is also far less corrupt.

In fact, the Mossad all but created Hamas, to get rid of PLO. It worked. Hamas is Israel's own golem.

Hamas are "soft" Islamists; Their society does include non-muslims and women. You want real Islamism? Look in the general direction of ISIL, that Israel presently favor: ISIL commits international terror. Hamas does not. It wouldn't suprise me if Israel replaces Hamas with ISIL, then attack them with the very same reasons they used for PLO and Hamas. In Israel's eyes, any representative of Palestine is a terrorist who needs to be kill in a extra-judicial manner, no matter if he is a Hitler or a Mandela.

Error - the US settled with Egypt. There will be war even if all of your naive ideals are made into reality, simply because Israel, terrorists themselves (does the words "King David Hotel" tells you something?), won't allow a peace that would effectively kill Eretz Yisrael. There will be peace only when the zionist regime of Israel falls, because it is the grafted hand that rejects the whole host. Once it's done with the arm, it will attack the torso. It won't stop.

Oh, and if you answer this post without taking the point that are discussed therein, to shout debunked credos and slogans instead, don't expect a response. I have been much patient with you.

 

Let's not forget that Jordan attacked Israel, and that's why they lost the West Bank.

Israel urged Jordan not to attack, but the King said "sorry, but the die has been cast".

 

The UN took everything into consideration in fact Israel was created within a small territory that doe snot even include Jerusalem. The Palestinians were under the Jordanian control and responsibility.
Israel had a raw deal and the Muslim neighbors don't even want to give to Israel that raw deal they want everything.

As long as the PA and Hamas continue to threaten Israel with terrorism and refused to abide by UN resolution to cease all hostile acts against Israel, Palestine will remain stateless.

Israel acted according to UN mandate against over whelming enemies it defended itself from being wiped out, it offer peace over and over and was responded with more aggression and wars until finally Egypt and Jordan accepted peace that war finally ended. Palestinians have refused to do the same and for that they are paying a steep price for it.

Yes, the Muslim neighbors join forces Jordan, Syria, Egypt, and in some degree was join in by Iraq, Saudi Arabia against the tiny State of Israel with one purpose only to wipe Israel off the map of Palestine.

The Palestinians are part of Jordan's ethnic group of people under their rule. There was never a Palestinian state because they were under and part of Jordan.

Current event is very clear who Hamas are.

The more reason why Palestine could not gain any international recognition or support because of their refusal to renounce terrorism and work peacefully with Israel.

That is what the Islamist would like to happen seize control of Egypt so that they can tear up the peace treaty with Israel and join forces with Hamas to relaunch its war of aggression against Israel.
Thanks to the changes in Egypt with the growth of secularism plans by Islamist to seize control of Egypt has failed.

Your patient is best served by reading and accepting actual historical records and current events not based on your personal biased opinion that has no clear path to peace and or the successful creation and recognition of a State of Palestine.

 

And Jordan finally accepted their fault and ceded Jerusalem and the West Bank.

 

Palestinians disagree, which makes the deal invalid. Maybe it was valid in the WWII era of colonialism, when only the white man had something to say about worldy matters, but today its ridiculous. Would you marry a woman against her will?

And why were the Ukrainians given Palestinian territory, anyway?

The West Bank did exactly that, reject Hamas, live in peace etc - and as a reward, they get their land stolen under their feet anyway. Conclusion?

Israel didn't act according to the UN resolution number 181, especially its chapters 2 and 3. And like I wrote, I want to underline your dual standards regarding resolution 181 and all of the other UN resolution that Israel ignored.

And overwhelming armies? Ha ha ha. The Arabs have been disarmed by the Brits a few years before that. These "armies" were little more than tribal raiders resisting the invader (that committed Deir Yassin before may 1948, if your memory serves you well).

Instead Israel won with its one purpose: Wipe the Palestinian people from the land god gave the Khazars.

Jordan has nothing to do with it. It's just the ol' zio games that pretends that Palestinians or Palestine never existed - so what they are abusing are ghosts, they hope we believe.

They were not: They are human beings whio used to live in Palestine for centuries, and even millenias. Some of them even once were Jews. They're the real semetic people.

You have no idea what Hamas is. You are just gobbling up what you heard.

Israel got her independance throught terrorism. So, "King David Hotel" means nothing to you?

Egypt is paid by the US not to go to war with Israel. Ever heard of the "Lavon Affair"?

Think I'm impressed? I would be more impressed if you didn't skip the parts where Israel committed terrorism, created Hamas or has dealings with ISIL. Choosing your fights are you, right?

 

You need to update your story:

- The IDF states that President Abbas of Palestine is their primary partner in security. West Bank has consistently fought against terrorist activity.

- The Hamas government of Gaza signed on to the Abbas unified government, which required them to state the right of Israel to remain as their neighbor in peace and that they restrict to non-violent means - thus renouncing terrorism. This was not new for Gaza, by the way. They have long recognized the fact of Israel's permanence. They view their violence against Israel as no more than what happens when a weak state is in a constant state of war with a superior power that will not negotiate. And, as the world recognizes, the Israeli blockade of Gaza IS a continuing act of war that has gone on for nearly 10 years - a war that Israel DOES refuse to negotiate.

- Palestine is recognized as a state by over 130 nations. It is recognized with observer status at the UN, giving them rights to use the many parts of the UN - the World Court, etc., etc. The Palestinian flag flies at the UN.


On the other side, this year has Israel bulldozing the homes of Palestinian families at a higher rate than ever before. And, their primary justification is that the papers of these homeowners don't meet Israeli (the occupation force) requirements.

What we're seeing is NOT contention over borders and NOT security related to terrorism, but PURE ethnic cleansing as the occupation force steals the land of the individuals living there - a well recognized international crime.