Are We Headed For Another American Revolution? / Drum Beats of an American Revolution

I wanted to respect Wolverine's Thread, and start this one here as a new thread, not posted in his.

As I stated earlier, I'm NOT advocating a 2nd American Revolution, though the way things are going, we may one day see it happen.

The 2nd Amendment is the last and final line drawn in the sand. Once banned, abollished, or that line is crossed, there will be war, for that 2nd Amendment is what ensures a People, State, and Nation to remain Free. It is our only safeguard against tyranny, oppression, and dictatorship from an out of control, abusive government, the likes of which we have presently.

Amendment II

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.- U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights

The Declaration of Independence: A Transcription


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IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our Brittish brethren. We have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.- The Declaration of Independence

 

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The 56 signatures on the Declaration appear in the positions indicated:

Column 1
Georgia:
Button Gwinnett
Lyman Hall
George Walton

Column 2
North Carolina:
William Hooper
Joseph Hewes
John Penn
South Carolina:
Edward Rutledge
Thomas Heyward, Jr.
Thomas Lynch, Jr.
Arthur Middleton

Column 3
Massachusetts:
John Hancock
Maryland:
Samuel Chase
William Paca
Thomas Stone
Charles Carroll of Carrollton
Virginia:
George Wythe
Richard Henry Lee
Thomas Jefferson
Benjamin Harrison
Thomas Nelson, Jr.
Francis Lightfoot Lee
Carter Braxton

Column 4
Pennsylvania:
Robert Morris
Benjamin Rush
Benjamin Franklin
John Morton
George Clymer
James Smith
George Taylor
James Wilson
George Ross
Delaware:
Caesar Rodney
George Read
Thomas McKean

Column 5
New York:
William Floyd
Philip Livingston
Francis Lewis
Lewis Morris
New Jersey:
Richard Stockton
John Witherspoon
Francis Hopkinson
John Hart
Abraham Clark

Column 6
New Hampshire:
Josiah Bartlett
William Whipple
Massachusetts:
Samuel Adams
John Adams
Robert Treat Paine
Elbridge Gerry
Rhode Island:
Stephen Hopkins
William Ellery
Connecticut:
Roger Sherman
Samuel Huntington
William Williams
Oliver Wolcott
New Hampshire:
Matthew Thornton

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

And I would echo:

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.
...But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

There have been MANY abuses and usurpations, MANY. And they are ongoing, WITHOUT heeding the voice of the American People for redress of grievances.

The long list of oppressions sounds familiar, doesn't it? They're what we are facing today, of which We the People have petitioned for redress numerous times.

The 2nd Amendment is the last and final line drawn in the sand.

"And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."- The Declaration of Independence

www.oathkeepers.org

Your Oath to defend the U.S. Constitution does NOT end once you are no longer serving. Your Oath to defend the U.S. Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic, does NOT end until death. Once dead, one is no longer bound by that Oath. Until then, honor your Oath, Keep it, Fulfill it.

SEMPER FIDELIS

 

I appreciate that kind Sir.

I don't think people will revolt. As long as people are fed Jersey Shore and provided comfortable lives, why rebel?

 

Ha! Wolverine's sentiments exactly!

We are biological beings, hence much of our functioning overlays a gaussian distribution. Different people have varying amounts of tolerance for perceived slights. When a certain threshold is passed, then maybe we'd see such a revolt.

I hope it is not in my lifetime. I'm skeered to see the lives of people taken.

 

Luckily there is absolutely no indication that the 2nd Amendment will be amended. And the Supreme Court has ruled that the 2nd Amendment means an individual has a right to own a personal firearm.

So no- not headed to another revolution. Which is a good thing- revolutions rarely end well for anyone- our Revolution was a relatively painless anomaly.

 

You will be surprised.

With the 2nd Amendment hanging in the balance, it's not too far off.

 

how is the second amendment hanging in the balance?

 

The Second Amendment and the right for individuals to own and carry firearms is not "settled law" even though some liberals in the courts say it is.

Leftwing activists do not support or defend the original meanings and intent of our Constitution and Bill of Rights. They could care less about what the laws really mean, it only matters what they think it means. One can only look at what the Godfather of judical activism Cheif Justice Earl Warren said (about the 8th Amendment on cruel and unusual punishment):

"the Amendment must draw its meaning from the evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society" (Trop v. Dulles)

To the leftists like Obama, Ginsburg, Sotomeyar and other liberal democrats, the US Constitution is like toilet paper, it can be conformed to whatever purpose they choose. Have enough these people on the high court and the Second Amendment will be wiped away.

 

I'll ask again, how is the second amendment hanging in the balance?

 

you mean the fact nuclear arms are not going to be allowed to be carried around in public?

 

I am on the left and I support everyone having the right to protect their homes with a gun, even people that have depression or have a past fellony conviction, just as I would not take away their 1st amendment rights, nor would I take away their 2nsd

 

As I mentioned, get enough liberals on the Supreme Court, and no Constitutional law is safe. All of the SC jurists are old, and anyone of them could die of any number of reasons---certainly within the next 4 years there is a high probababilty of this. Just one substitution of a conservative justice for a leftwing activist---as Obama would put in during another run in office---and the balance would shift. The Second Amendment was only saved by one vote last time.

 

There are legions of others on the left who don't support the 2nd.

I wouldn't take away any lawful citizen's right to have weapons on depression meds. But, I would take away anyone's right to have firearms if they were convicted of a violent felony.

This would include for instance, an 80 year old born again Christian who has led an honest and productive life since commiting a violent felony back when he was 16. There is no way any violent felon should have this right.

 

ok, so we agree that the second amendment is not hanging in the balance then? since there is no proposed amendment repealing it.

 

The basic 2nd Amendment, not right now. I still consider the Second Amendment to be not entirely setteled. Right to Carry laws, and handgun cases, like Chicago vs. McDonald are still being played out now in the courts.

 

Small Arms Treaty / Arms Trade Treaty that was just shot down towards the end of July.

FOR NOW.

International laws.

You say, "international laws have no affect on U.S. Constitutional Law."

If that were really the case, why the u.n. small arms treaty / arms trade treaty meeting held for almost the entire Month of July 2012?

Yes, we're still a sovereign Nation, for now. We are quickly losing and giving up U.S. Sovereignty little by little, and have been for years.

Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton has been trying to go through u.n. international law to ban firearms of U.S. Citizens.

The u.n. wants U.S. disarmed.

THAT is how the 2nd Amendment hangs in the balance. And if obummer is RE-SELECTED, be assured, they're going to push this through, just like obama's murder care, and national defense authorization act.

The 2nd Amendment is one issue. Granted, one HUGE issue. There are others that could lead to Revolution.

I'll let you do your own thinking and research about that.

 

WATCH THIS!!!

LISTEN TO THIS!!!

YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON?!

YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT TIME IT IS?!

YOU WANT TO KNOW THE REAL, HARD TRUTH AND FACTS?!

HERE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXg2WsNCrW4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSTUIx6wH-c

DENY AND COMBAT THESE REAL, HARD FACTS AND TRUTHS!!!

After watching and listening to these, maybe, just maybe one will understand how really, really close we are to another American Revolution. I really pray and hope I'm wrong.

If things continue to go the way they're going, "We, the People" will be out of options.

I pray and hope I'm wrong.

www.oathkeepers.org

This is NOT a conspiracy theory.

This is NOT tabloidism.

THESE ARE THE REAL, HARD TRUTHS AND FACTS ABOUT WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON INSIDE THE U.S.

WAKE UP, PEOPLE!!!

 

It is hanging in the balance.

Obama has shown his willingnes to use the executive branch to circumvent Congress and ignore existing laws (immigration, EPA, rifle sales in border states, for example). The second amendment does not have to be outright repealed or amended, it can be effectively nullified through regulation.

 

But you put a strict limit on firearm ownership - " the right to protect their homes with a gun".

You are not as supportive of the 2nd amendment as you think.

 

I have two diverging lines of thought on this. One says we just need a "aha moment" in this country, and a wave of engagement will crush the status quo.

The second line of thought is most re-enforced by this Moneyball quote:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1210166/quotes

If we do end up having to fight, as our government has been so corrupted, that we no longer have any control over it. I think people need to really read what Jefferson was saying about revolution.

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/96oct/obrien/blood.htm

The point here being that a effective revolution is one that minimizes chaos. There would need to be a culture built that would prevent the every man for himself mentality, this quality that Jefferson so proudly exclaims, that he then offers a revolution is necessary every 20 years if conducted in such a manor.

 

and can you name a single policy or proposed piece of legislation that is threatening the second amendment? because to date, obama has done nothing but EXPAND gun rights.

 

No one is in a hurry to die any sooner then they must.

 

obama exapnded gun rights, thats so funny.

The 2nd amendment itself is not going to be modified or repealed, the intent of the 2nd amendment is under attack.

This close to the election there is no legislation related to gun control. That does not mean gun rights are safe and secure. Once the election is over, the democrats will bring up gun control directly. If you think otherwise, you are foolishly mistaken.

The 2012 democrat party platform calls for reinstatement of the "assualt weapons ban", closing the mythical gun show loophole. In an August 6 2012 press briefing Jay Carney said obama supports reinstatement of the weapons ban.

obama and company blame US firearms access for the bloodshed in Mexico, continueing to push the false and disproved claim that 90% of firearms recovered in Mexico come from the US.

obama/holder are requiring border state firearm dealers report sales of 2 or more semi-auto weapons in a 5 day period. Thats an illegal requirement levied by the ATF. That type of requirement has to go through Congress, in the past it has been proposed and rejected by Congress.

There is also the UN arms trade treaty. Normally international treaties have to be ratified by the Senate. There is an alternative approach called Executive Agreements.

http://www.law.asu.edu/library/Ross...uides/TreatiesandInternationalAgreements.aspx

Executive-Agreement Process

Executive Agreements follow much of the same process as treaties. They are initiated at the Executive level of government and are negotiated by a representative. When the parties agree on the terms, the Secretary of State authorizes the negotiator to sign the agreement and the agreement will enter into force. Executive agreements do not go to the Senate for consideration and approval. However, the Senate does need to be notified by the Executive Branch within 60 days of signing the agreement [Case-Zablocki Act (1 U.S.C. § 112b)].​

People that think the UN ATT is dead because it will never get through the Senate are greatly mistaken. If obama is re-elected, he can take the Executive Agreement process to implementing the bulk of the UN ATT.

WHile in the Illinois legislature and in Chicago, obama has a long record of supporting gun bans. If re-elected, obama will exercise his "freedom" to bring gun control the forefront.

 

not sure why it's funny. it's simply reality. the only piece of legislation obama has signed into law, has EXPANDED firearm rights by allowing firearms into national parks.

so you can't name a single piece of proposed legilsation or amendment that obama has implemented, that threatens the second amendment then?

 

America has peaceful revolutions. It is called free elections.