Britain Is Bleeding

Or we could compare them to republican run states that have the most gun deaths

 

Your problem is three fold. First, criminology analysis does not use official statistics. There has never been consistency in definition to allow for longitudinal comment. Second, you have been reliant on a blog that misinterprets the homicide figures. I informed you precisely how the data is collected. That collection only again makes longitudinal study more difficult, with structural breaks expected due to new serial killer events (and how, given low homicide numbers, that can significantly impact on the statistics). Third, this is a gun control sub-forum and its noticeable that you have not been able to use empirical analysis to link crime and gun control events

 

This is correct.

 

Gun control is irrelevant in the UK. Even before any restrictions were brought in place, very few people owned firearms and even fewer routinely carried them. The practical impact of the laws at the national scale was minimal at best. That also means it was a pretty much pointless law, clearly more about public image that practical impact but it also means any comparison with anywhere else is meaningless (or worse, wilfully dishonest).

 

The fact remains the comparison is pointless

 

When you see the huge stacks of guns turned in and stacked like garbage, really nice guns, and hear the testimony of Gun club members, more than a few had firearms before the Bans and confiscation / Firearms turn ins.

The U.K. - N.R.A. predated America's N.R.A
Firearms were advanced thanks to lots of work by British gun companies, strange when Brits try to Re-write history and claim American gun culture when the best Guns & Ammo were made in England once upon a time.

I would believe firearms ownership in U.K. has simply always been low key", not as rare as often proported by non firearm owners.

 

Both low-key and relatively rare, certainly in comparison to the US. I'm not saying the restrictions didn't have major practical implications for some people but the overall social impact across the country was minimal. Linking those changes to general crime statistics without offering any factual basis is fundamentally flawed.

 

You will never understand U.K. gun ownership from a non gun owner.
A non gun owner just does not know the nature of being a member of a gun club or transporting a gun, keeping it secret from chums and neighbors etc...

 

Handgun ownership was not a popular pursuit. Much more focused on stuff like killing birds with shotguns. Great White Hunter stuff!

 

that's because those states have an older more military population and suicides are counted which is dishonest

when it comes to unlawful gun homicides, its mainly a proclivity of inner city types who have criminal records and live in areas run by Democrat politicians

 

Cite your evidence that is the reason

 

why do you constantly demand others prove stuff that everyone should know by now? you are constantly asked to prove that states with gun control you crave (gun bans, waiting periods etc) have less suicides because of those laws. You fail to do that.

 

I have cited scientific evidence for my case. You have nothing

 

Well that just supports the low-key element while the statistics give the number of legally held firearms (around 2 million firearms owned by fewer than 1 million individuals). You seem to be trying to argue against a point I'm not making.

 

A couple of ONS recorded crime stats...

• Between 2014-15 there were 7,866 offences in which firearms were involved. Offences involving knives were at 26,374.
• There were 19 fatalities resulting from firearm offences over that period

Now let's remember that official stats are problematic. But it does show two things. First, it is blindingly obvious why there isn't any empirical evidence from the UK to agree with the 'more guns=less crime' hypothesis. Second, any comparison with the US is going to be inappropriate.

 

yes, anti gun propaganda that doesn't come close to proving causation.

 

England paved the way with the Grand Shoots at Bisley, handgun shooting, specialized competitions, something of a closed if not exclusive atmosphere, the true pursuit of excellence in shooting talked about in hushed tones when such things are spoken of in America.

Little wonder how these fine details escape most people that speak on these topics as such knowledge is limited to people in the know, and such are loathe to speak of those matters to others not of in the loop.

 

These aren't fine details. They are minor comments from someone who wants to overplay British gun culture. I'm an old fart. I've met very few people who owned handguns. I meet and continue to meet them unfortunately (cos they really are a bore), shotgun owners.

There is no significant gun culture in the UK. There is a hunting culture though. They don't walk mind you. They get transported via tractor. They don't worry about shooting either. The birds are scared towards them so they can blow them out of the sky.

 

Yes, your contempt speaks volumes.
Carry on then.

" Wisdom and goodness to the vile seem vile.
Filths savor but themselves."

 

Its called scientific peer reviewed evidence. I have provided it and you have provided none

 

no you didn't. you keep citing studies that haven't proven causation and when asked to show where causation was established, you punt.

 

wow....

 

How can you keep getting this wrong? Causation can not be proven for ANYTHING in science. This is so basic yet you keep getting it wrong

 

How long are you going to pretend that you can prove passing the gun bans you want will make us safer? there is no valid evidence of that

why are you unable to tell us what those laws are that you think will decrease violent crime? suicides matter not when it comes to crime control laws

 

Look up 'United Kingdom' on Wikipedia. It's probably mentioned in there somewhere.