I just want to remind gun supporters of Trumps Stance on guns

Not him. I may end up sitting this one out or may vote for a libertarian

 

So you're an all or nothing purist of sorts. To say that Trump and the NRA are gun grabbers is as radical as those who insist that the right to keep and bear arms refers to single shot, smoothbore, flintlock, black powder muzzleloaders, with iron sights.

 

his older sons are hard core pro second amendment

 

True. And I figure its likely Trump at least knows how important 2A is to his base as well. But when it comes to policy, gun rights do not seem to have been high on his priority list in his first term. His constitutionalist judges mostly made up for it tho.

 

I call Trump a grabber because he instituted a gun ban by purporting to amend a statute through pure executive fiat. He grabbed, ergo he's a grabber.
NRA: Supported all the gun control we currently have, which infringes on the right to keep and bear arms. They support grabbing, ergo they're grabbers.

You can be a worse grabber than others, or not so bad as others. Still, it's like rape: A little is enough. Doing it more than once makes you worse, but you've still violated the constitution the first time you did it.

 

so if it is Biden vs Trump what are you going to do.

I vote for the guy who put good justices and judges on the court versus a guy who has campaigned for gun bans for 50 years and has appointed judges whose main credentials include hating gun ownership and the culture that supports gun ownership

 

Seriously? Are you aware of how often the NRA takes intrusive firearm regulations to court to get them overturned? IMO, if it weren't for the NRA, we'd have no second amendment or be reduced to BB guns or something. The NRA has been a bulwark in support of the second amendment. All the other groups who've popped up over the past two or three decades are just wannabe's who talk big but have accomplished next to nothing as far as actually protecting the second amendment from the anti gunners. There's a reason that the anti gunners hate the NRA.

 

Did you not see the photograph friend?

FPC, NAGR, and GOA do more and actually support the 2a instead of being a boomer fleecing org.

 

Vote 3rd party. As I've done already.

 

which is a wasted vote and only helps Biden. great job

 

SAF is the best alternative. NAGR are pretty much not helpful.. Larry Pratt isn't a very good spokesman either for GOA and gun owners in general.

 

While Trump might not personally believe in gun rights so much, I believe he is likely to support them, if reelected President.

For the same reason that Biden supports illegal immigration.

When an individual is a politician, a lot of their decisions and policies do not depend on what they personally believe but on what the ideological position of their Party is and what their supporters want. In politics, you have to make alliances and securing support and loyalty is important.

Trump would have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain by siding with gun rights supporters.
(Do you think even one person who is a proponent of more gun control would hate Trump less if Trump were willing to compromise a little bit on the gun control issue?)

Now, you might worry that Trump might just choose the policy he believes is the right one, with disregard for what his supporters think.
But has Trump ever been known to stand on personal principles?

 

Absolutely not. I’ll give you that

 

He did that very thing with bump stocks. And talked of doing so with silencers

 

I agree with you. He needs more conservative advisors in his circle, just like Biden has radical progressive advisors informing him of what to do, and how to think about issues.

But do you really think a Biden win is going to end up better for your position than Trump?

If you want to throw your vote away and vote for a third party candidate, go ahead, but I just hope you're not in a swing state.

Anyway, something we have to keep in mind is that Trump is actually pretty pro-gun rights, for someone who comes from New York City.
Relatively speaking.

 

the Trump bashing "purists" ignore the fact that Trump was president when Stephen Paddock set a new record for mass shootings at Vegas. yes, Trump caved on the Bump stock. Bump stocks were silly accessories created by the blatantly unconstitutional Hughes Amendment. But anyone with a brain understands that If Hilary Clinton had been the president instead of Trump, far worse stuff would have been tried and we'd have Merrick Garland and two more gun hating leftists on the Supreme Court. That is the reality that the purists ignore and which is why I reject their silly suggestions of voting third party if the choice comes down to Trump and Biden

 

I think you don't have accurate information about the FAOPA of 1986

 

I'm going to ask a question. It's a hypothetical for you to think about.

There are two candidates. You get to choose.
One of them is a radical Libertarian who believes there should be no government control over what you own. But he also doesn't believe in borders, and would let in 3 million illegal aliens a year, and another 3 million immigrants from high-crime violent war-torn parts of the world.
The other one is Trump.
Whoever you choose will be President for 20 years.

Now, here's the question: 30 years from now, which choice will be most likely to result in the least amount of restrictions existing?

 

Your rationale is cracked. It's like saying your Parents were selfish and didn't do enough for you because they took some time for themselves, and they didn't allow you to do everything you wanted. Or that Jesus wasn't God because he didn't fix everything, and he bled and died like a man. And that his gospel as well is too restrictive. He promised freedom and then enslaved us to rules of behavior.

 

MY rationale is cracked? Says the person that can't simply admit to the facts.

Those are some wonderful strawmen arguments you've made, which I haven't made. Is what I've written so difficult to oppose that you must make things up?

 

Well, since its the presidency and the presidency doesn't set immigration law, I'm alright with the Libertarian who will sign no bill increasing taxes, **** with me least by executive fiat, and not be susceptible to the kick backs, data theft, showing classified documents to adherents, incompetency etc bullshit that Trump (and Biden) has (have) issues with.
See how that works?

20 years of Trump or Biden? I'd take a full scale nuclear exchange instead.

 

FPC is the best alternative. They do the most actual litigation work.

NAGR has more recent cases than the NRA does.

https://www.gunowners.org/goas-top-ten-legal-battles-in-the-courts/
I'll keep GOA thanks.

 

Put forward a candidate who does not suck diseased moose wang, get a vote.
Put forward a candidate who does suck diseased moose wang, don't get a vote. Great job.

An incompetent (on numerous levels), self dealing (on numerous levels) criminal (on numerous levels) grabber (on numerous levels) is in the position no matter what I do.

 

https://www.firearmspolicy.org/legal
https://www.gunowners.org/goas-top-ten-legal-battles-in-the-courts/
FPC and GOA have accomplished more than the NRA.
The NRA has a history of supporting gun control, and their leadership embezzles your money.

 

You ever see a Larry Pratt interview? He's no matter than Wayne LaPew