Rage and anguish sweep the USA

No, they exist because those democratic countries permit their citizensby default to publicly express their beliefs regardless of how ridiculous those beliefs may be. As demonstrated by the continued existence of the anti-vaxer movement, flat earthers and other lunatic fringe groups. Historically of course this is the exact opposite to the path taken by Marxist governments whenever they managed to obtain power. Whereupon all opposing viewpoints and ideologies were systematically crushed or banned. Go figure. Apparently Marxists can't take criticism.

 

The guy that faced down the Chinese tank wasn't looting...

 

Thats a reason for guns. Another is for preventing oppression by violent criminals.

The army can also be used against tyrannical government and/or violent criminals.

 

My point was that the army was being used to suppress protest.

 

As if the army would be used against a tyrannical gov’t. This happened in USSR but I don’t think the USA Army would ignore the CIC and back the populace.

 

May told the UK army to come in during the 2011 riots. The army said No.

 

They are attacking peaceful protestors and the press and there has been at least one protest that was 100% peaceful and was filmed. That was the protest being held before Trump did his charade outside the boarded up church. The US military police attack peaceful protesters going against the first amendment and the right within any democracy to peacefully protest.

I have heard them claiming their beating up of a reporter was caused by his violence when there was even video to show it was not true so I would not believe a word they say. They have way overstepped policing in a democratic society. The US is becoming a police state.

As for bringing in the army. Previous tries at this in other countries suggests that the response of the army will be crucial as to what happens. If they like what they are being asked to do then they will do whatever they are asked and the US is finished. I suspect this may be what happens. However people in the army generally have family and friends. Most of them are not in the upper class. If they have conscience about this, if they think this could be done to my family, my friend, they could turn against Trump. I hear it is when an Institution like the army turns against the Authoritarian Ruler that he gets scared and changes..... sometimes in time to save his life. If the Army do not say No to fighting their own people, the US as any kind of democracy any pretence of being a 'free society' is finished.

 

Overcoming an egregious tolerance (by the majority) of minority disadvantage (eg, blacks in the US), has nothing to do with "ridiculous beliefs". For that reason alone your politics is condemned, and that is the driving force behind Antifa.

Yes those ARE ridiculous beliefs.

Chile, 1973. A popularly elected socialist leader, Allende, ousted by a RW dictator (aided by the CIA).

Iran, 1953. ditto Mosaddegh, (in a CIA-backed coup) for the crime of wanting to raise living standards in Iran by returning the profits of Iran's oil wealth to the people, rather than to overseas shareholders of Western companies.

So I ask you again: how are you going to erase systemic black disadvantage in the US?

 

Gosh you are confused. The US has all the resources it needs to fix the problem. Forget "Globalists". Maybe Bezos IS "stealing humanity blind"...he will soon be wealthier than some entire nations.

But black disadvantage is a multi-decade ongoing festering sore in the US, and an affront to human rights. All entrenched poverty is an affront to human rights. Black lives matter. People get angry when subjected to ongoing systemic poverty.

Guess who said this:

"You are living in poverty, your neighbourhoods are like war zones, your schools and hospitals are broken, your young men in prison.." ....vote for me, you have nothing to lose....

At least he recognised the problem, which is more than you seem to be capable of doing....

 

But the guys who forced their way into Hong Kong's parliament last year, and trashed the place in the name of 'democracy' WERE looters, just like the looters smashing property in the US, in a rejection of entrenched black disadvantage in the US.

 

Very sensible of the Army.

 

Why?

 

Just an opinion.

 

Rioters-looters-burners-murderers have turned NYC into a shithole once again. Guards are going to turn those dogs loose if anything further happens.

 

Only if you consider fire bombing retail establishments and vehicles, smashing windows and windshields, terrorizing and beating people trying to defend themselves and their businesses 'protesting'. No one is asking for the peaceful protests and gatherings in parks to stop, they are more likely to join them.

Any use of the military would be to stop those causing damage and looting. There is a difference, best you study up on it.

 

Perhaps you're heard of Oathkeepers, a group of US LE, vets and active military who vow to refuse to follow unconstitutional orders like mass political detainment and/or gun confiscation.

 

No, I hadn’t. Is it a very big group?

 

Do you consider property destruction and looting legitimate protest?

 

Protest isn’t only people sitting in a road singing protest songs.
Protest takes many forms and as I’ve said before, I don’t approve of property destruction but it is a form of protest.

 

See above.

 

Hard to say. Most vets I know claim to be OKers, but aren't active 'members' per say. Parts of our political establishment (ADL/SPLC) consider it to be an 'extremist' organization, so many of its active duty members are closeted.

 

So is murder and rape. But they're not legitimate forms of protest in the eyes of Americans, and neither are looting and arson.

 

I think they seem a bit similar to the London - then rest of England riots of 2011. These began after the police killed one of the community and the people did not feel the police were being straight with them. This seemed to be what sparked it but underneath it was an underclass who had no trust of the police and a society which was not offering them a chance. You can put the underclass position down to neo liberalism.

May as I said wanted the army to come in as local police could not deal with it. The army correctly said no and Police were called in from all over the UK. In the end what seemed to stop it was when two sons of a Muslim man were killed and he in his grief with great dignity asked them to stop.

All in all I think there were 8 deaths which really is exceedingly good given the situation. Had the army been brought in then it is difficult to imagine there would not have been more deaths. If the British Government at some future time, does what the US advisors she brought it advised. there would likely be a lot more deaths. They advised her to shoot people dead if they even looked as if they are going to set something on fire and to use water cannon. Boris bought the water cannot but it is not suitable for London and has since I think been sold at a great loss. The reason why May asked for advice is because she was seeing the future as a future where they would see a lot more riots and looting like 2011 as the country became more and more unequal. In reality the far right has managed to get some of them on side.

I have seen the US police attacking people who are doing nothing more than filming them. That is another trick of Authoritarian regimes kill the press and that is a serious international crime. I don't think you have as yet killed any but your police have attacked a lot including I believe an Australian. You cannot attack the Press and expect to be recognised as part of 'the international community'

Trump is encouraging hatred against blacks. He has declared that an organisation which he does not like and to the best of my knowledge has killed no one a terrorist organisation so that they can be killed at will.

I have always been told by Americans on this forum that there is one definite - you do not send in the army against your own civilians. This however is wrong as you sent them in before to kill students in the 60's.

The people who have been protesting including those who were rioting and looting have every reason to be angry and some have nothing to lose except their live which given the possibilities they have, may not feel like that much, particularly if the US is going to go further down the road of race hatred and not do something about it pronto.

You are sinking into worse poverty. I hear from Jimmy Dore that there has been the most massive gift of money to the most rich in the US ever. You have an incredibly difficult future ahead of you. Nazi's live on creating hatred of 'the other' in order to stop people coming together and dealing with the real problems.

From what I hear the Protestors have listened to the people who have spoken to them and protests are continuing but looting is not. You must notice, the whole world is against Trumps position and has every right to be.

 

No, damaging other people's property is not protest. It's a temper tantrum at best, and criminal, possible felony at worst.

 

Yes, some of the LE are just as criminal as those they pursue. But not all, as some would paint them to be.

Race has long since been a point of conflict, but escalated over the last decades. Trump has said stupid stuff, but so have other past Presidents, in regards to racial issues. To believe Trump is dividing this nation any more than it was, is to ignore the words and actions of previous administrations.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'sinking into worse poverty', perhaps for those who have relied on sources of support outside of what they can provide from themselves, but a great many of US citizens will continue on as they always have, making the best of what exists, and sidelining what does not support their goal. What 'gift' were the wealthy given, that other people were not?

Until a while ago, I had family member in London. Things took a turn for the worse, and the police and social type services were involved. They were kind and helpful through a most devastating time, and made things as easy as possible for us. In turn, I have seen LE do the same here for families from abroad, and citizens. I refuse to judge them all based what has happened.