The Carbon Tax will spell the end for Bob Brown and the Greens

Just like the GST killed Meg Lees and the Democrats.

 

The Question still stands:

Your nation wants a carbon tax, so why do you want your Government to neutralize the effects of the Carbon Tax on you personally by nationalizing the Power Companies and presumably forcing them not to raise prices on you to cover the cost of the Carbon Tax.

That's completely counter productive for a nation that wants to make a stand as one of the most proactive on environmental policy by forcing it's citizens through coercive taxes to use less electricity in theory, but in reality subsidize their continued use of electricity by forcing the Power Companies under Socialist Control?

It makes no sense!

 

What are you talking about? Obviously we wouldn't have a carbon price and a nationalised power industry. That would mean the government would be taxing its own revenue, which makes no sense! There is no talk of nationalising the power industry by anyone in parliament. The "compensation" for households will not be permanent either.

No this won't be the end of the Greens. This will actually probably strengthen the Greens as everyone recognises that they are the reason that this policy will get through.

 

Um, exactly.

You must live in a fantasy land where people actually want this tax!

Poor you.

 

Greens voters certainly do, and that is rather the point.

 

Fringe parties like the Greens should never be given that much political influence.

 

A "fringe" party that got 1.6 million votes in the last federal election? They only have the power to negotiate with the government. Without this being ALP policy it would not go through. They hold the balance of power in the senate, they are part of the multi-party committee for climate change, they will be a driving force in getting this legislation through. If you want to complain about something, complain about the independents in the house of reps.

 

Well, unfortunately I've noticed any garbage that becomes a fad in Australia and the Eurozone eventually finds it's corrupt way into my nation.

I'm just trying to understand who my enemies are.

 

That is highly amusing, I did not think that Australia really has any influence over America at all. Well actually I still think that. Where as we genuinely do get all your rubbish fads. Twihards, Justin Beiber, American Idol, scientology, etc. Our Liberals are turning into the bloody Tea Party, it's disgusting to watch.

 

Well American Pop Culture IS pretty corrupting.. but that's far different than political ideas one hates becoming reality.

 

Woe betide democracy.

 

The greens hate all the important industries. Farming, fishing, forestry, and mining. What they want would ruin the country

 

I hope you're not seriously suggesting that these are the only important industries in Australia? They don't "hate" any of these industries. However, over fishing is a serious global problem. The destruction of rainforests is a serious world wide issue. Bob Brown isn't happy that "foreigners" are taking much of the profits from our mining boom offshore. Basically what you've just said is complete bullocks.

 

They are the foundation of all other industries. Without those 4 industries no other industry could exist. And yes over fishing and destruction of rainforests is a problem. So why not acquire those resources in our own country which has some of the strongest regulations in the world. Instead of exporting the damage overseas.
Also nothing will make Bob Brown happy. Nothing can make the greens happy. We need to stop trying.

 

What do you mean "acquire those resources in our own country"? We export our resources. If the industries were only for our own consumption then there really probably wouldn't be any problems. But cutting down the temperate rainforest in Tasmania is BLOODY STUPID. They will not recover for hundreds of years. That is a completely ridiculous unsustainable industry that deserves to be shut down. Unless they make their industry sustainable, it should be shut down because the damage they're going to do will not recover for hundreds of years. I can't believe anyone defends that industry. I don't care about existing pine plantations, good luck to them. The hell do you mean "exporting the damage overseas"? I am talking about the damage we're doing here. Farmers, FARMERS are complaining about mining companies. Since when did the coalition abandon the farmers for the mining companies?! It's obvious that you don't at all agree with the Greens so I don't know why you say "we". IMO the greens have a lot of good policies.

 

That is such complete propaganda BS. Take it from a guy who lives in a lumber and coal state.

yes there can be vast environmental damage by irresponsible mining and it does need vigilant watch dogging on occasion by properly motivated groups.

A TRUE envrionmental group would encourage safe practices by cooperating with the companies and helping them to become profitable and sustainable, not attack and destroy them or hobble their profits. That doesn't help the cause.

The fact is there can be a Sustainable Capitalism that doesn't require onerous environmental burdens that make it impossible to get treasured resources like old growth timber(your beloved tasmanian forests).

If it's ANYTHING like in America, it is heavily heavily controlled. There will always be a market for old growth timber and it would be foolish to not export that wood. My brother in law is a furniture craftsman and people here in the states pay HUNDREDS PER FOOT for a board of that fine Australian Lumber. That's something to be proud of. Help sustain the industry and be responsible by watching them, but don't ban them. That's good jobs you are destroying and you are crippling what I think would be a large part of the Tasmanian economy!

 

Unfortunately you have no idea what you are talking about. No one wants to shut down the entire industry. What I specifically said was "unless they make the industry sustainable, it should be shut down". Anything that will "cost jobs" in the short term is fiercely opposed by the industry, who have a fair amount of lobbying power. I have no sympathy for them, they do not care about the long term future of the industry, or if they do, they don't do anything until often it's too late. And please note, native forest WOODCHIPPING, again demonstrating your ignorance on this subject.

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/bus...down-tasmanian-wood-mills-20101124-187dk.html

 

Do you have any prove to back up your overgeneralised and downright outlandish accusations?

The Greens support farmers, they were the strongest political supporters of landowners in the liverpool plains when a chinese mining company threatened turning their prime land into rubbish.

The Greens realise that some trees do need to the cut down but why cut down trees when there is no point, if we cut down on paper wastage you could save hundreds of trees.

Mining is an unrenewable resource so what happens when the resources run out. Is Tony Abbott going to get on his bike and give us pedal power.

Finally, I vote Green and I fish but I don't keep anything I am not going to eat or anything endangered.

The fact is that John Howard, Kevin Rudd, Tony Abbott, Julia Gillard and Malcolm Turnbull have all at one time come out in support of a price on carbon so the policy held by the Greens is actually quite mainstream.

 

I see you are against the export of resources. Shall i take it that you are in support of the gunns pulp mill in tasmania ?
The worst environmental damage occurs overseas in third world countries. Every time you hurt local industries with greenie propoganda we need to import raw materials or products from other countries who care less about the environment than they do about trying to escape poverty. And i dont blame them. Thats what i mean by exporting the damage.
I guess the reason i said WE. Would mean we as in the other 18 million or so australians who didnt vote for the greens.

 

I guess the greens choose farming as the lesser of 2 "evils"
No the greens do not realise that "some trees do need to be cut down". They are even against plantations when it suits them.
Mining is the only thing saving our economy. Well not even that. labor is so bad they can still ruin it.

 

I am not again exporting resources, I was just pointing out how you were wrong.

After accusing me of wanting to "destroy" the foresting industry, you are now saying I support the Pulp mill in Tasmania? OK!

Your claim that "hurting industries" with "greenie propaganda" will force production over seas is rubbish. What are subsidies for then exactly? What are import taxes for? We should not sacrifice best practice, or our environment, just because other people do. It is a rubbish argument. Australia is the number 1 coal exporter in the world. The idea that the coal industry (which is ALREADY SUBSIDISED) will collapse with a carbon price is just plain stupid. The idea that regulations to protect the environment will destroy industry, is rubbish. Garnaut's Climate Report is pretty much centred around protecting the long term future of Australia's primary industries. Selling off all our resources for pittance is not good! FFS! Once they're gone we'll never get them back. The mining industry is a one trick pony.

ETS has been ALP and Liberal party policy in the last few years!

 

Well of course I'm a bit ignorant. that would be like me expecting you to know the latest details on an argument between Southern Ohio paddle boaters who want money from boating fees and taxes funneled to the southern part of the state for improvements to the River ecology and building of canoe and kayak facilities along the State's Rivers in the South, but the rich yacht owners up on Lake Erie have a lock down on all that money for infrastructure improvements to their yacht docks, and for improvements and studies on the Fishing in Lake Erie.

All the money that Southern Paddle Boaters(who pay many of the same fees that the Rich yacht owners on Lake Erie pay) get no support from the State for thier hobby, while the Rich guys up in Cleveland(no doubt many of them John Kerry types!!) hog all the money to improve their boating experience on Lake Erie.

Sure, I have my "liberal" environmental beliefs.. but only so much as they don't effect the general economy.

It wouldn't hurt the State's economy to direct some funding down into the South so River Paddlers can have some basic facilities.

It would hurt the General economy if radical liberal boat paddlers took control of the Government and attacked the northern boaters with onerous taxation and attempts to drive them out of the State.

That's the problem with the modern environmental movement. They aren't interested in any compromises, they want revenge.

 

The difference is I would not presume to "educate" you on this subject.

When we have the multi-party committee for climate change where the greens are negotiating with independents and the government?!

 

Greens/Independents/govt..

LOL, that is the (*)(*)(*)(*)ing government!

 

LOL

Oh by the way, it's not a tax, that was Abbott calling it a tax.

This drop kick just trots our an endless stream of crap. Clip after clip was shown of her calling it a tax.

But now it's not a tax becuase....

The ALP/Greens and sellout are going down the (*)(*)(*)(*)ter!

Bwaaaaaaahahahaha RIP ALP.

The ruse is up.