It goes without saying that the reason immigration is a hot potato always, is not due to the dismissive and often "reasons" that others invent as a strawman, but born out of legitimate concerns based on social, economic, demographic and cultural reasons. It goes without saying of course that not since this open borders policy began have the Gov in power ever asked the host people if they WANT another two million Sudanese, Mexicans, Pakistani's or whatever. That would be the first thing any good Gov would do in that situation, after all, it is not the politicians country alone, it belongs to the host people. Politicians are temporary. You would have a proper and mature debate on it. Those who believed that they had a brilliant case that could prove letting another million Mexicans/Pakistani's etc in could present their whole case for everyone to listen to live, on air. Those who believed we need to go the other way could present their case, to prove their case that it was overall not good for the host people and the country. After each case was fully and respectfully presented, people could then make an informed choice about what they wanted to happen in this regard. At this moment in time, we simply do not know, since a combination of Gov not asking us and agenda driven political correctness in the media does not allow for such a normal thing to occur(this will backfire in the end).. So. We will try to conduct a small version right here. You may be in the US, Europe, Oz, it makes no difference, vote within the framework of your own country. I have tried to list as many options as possible(imagine these were the options on the polling card). However, because there is usually someone that moans about an option not given, I have added the mandatory "other". I have given more than just a straight out choice to account for the in between options, or even those that go beyond it. This is not a chance to point score or take cheap shots, nor should anyone feel pressured or judged for their choice and free expression of that choice. Thanks for participating fairly to those that do;
I voted "Other" for various reasons. I have no objection to legal immigrants, if the "legal" portion could be enforced. After all, Americans are all descendants of one group of immigrants or another, and even native Americans immigrated from somewhere else. Enjoy!
There's a huge difference between having sensible immigration laws and irresponsibly permitting tens of millions of Mexicans to come in and saturate the workforce while at the same time being saddled with millions more of our own unproductive citizen-vagrants, even having to pay them benefits for NOT working.
I voted for the ban for 5 years. But this needs to go further. The US also needs to go back to the quota system. And uphold the real reason for the 14th amendment. Why did I choose these? Its a number issue in every aspect.
I agree. There needs to be an entire and bold freeze on immigration, a time out if you will. I said five years, but it could easy be a decade, after which point we can review where we are at. It is logical and fair for the people of a nation to (I would have thought) want what is best for their nation in reality, and not what best serves their own egalitarian dreams(nightmares). Even talking heads like Angela Merkel etc have gone public and said that it has been a fail. Problem is, it was her and her kind that made it possible, down the years. Problem is, she may well say it now, but nothing is then really done about it(save for some gimmicky and costly stunts, like sending text messages to suspected illegals). The politicians have no genuine intention of stopping the flow of mass immigration. On the contrary, it goes against their goals and agenda. So from time to time, they will make some noise about it to keep their constituents happy, but in terms of hard and fast action - no. They will not do that. When was the last time either the Republican or Democrat party went into an election with a policy of stopping third world immigration, and taking a time out? When was the last time either party even asked the American people?
I vote to not only allow immigration to go through but to allow those that have been here for years that have had children to be left alone without being deported back. I vote to stop being the hypocrites we are and start focusing on the thousands of Caucasians that pour in through other countries but are completely off the radar due to the fact that they can blend in easier. I vote that we take a long hard look at our disgusting policy towards Mexicans when Mexicans lived, grew crops , and prospered in places like California, Texas, New Mexico and Nevada.....before they were all chased out by guns by greedy settlers that just wanted to steal their lands and toss them in prisons or put them on trains headed south. I vote that Americans remember the fact that Mexicans & Indians were here before the English settlers and stop trying to marginalize them by making such crack-pot statements like: everybody came from somewhere", as if that negates the fact that first is still first. I vote we stop demonizing all brown immigrants immediately assuming that the only thing they want to do is get on the government doll or join gangs. I vote that we realize that many Europeans that came to America during the big wave........boarded those boats illegally. (thats right, check it out) I vote that we see all immigrants as humans, and not life-sucking leeches that are only interested in stealing jobs.....jobs by the way that none of us even want.
Thank you, I appreciate that. The simple fact of the matter is no one does anyone any favours by suppressing the thoughts of the host people, be that by social pressure or stigmatising them, or whatever method is used to put a lock down on a rational, reasonable and entirely fair position. The fact that Gov's do this no matter which demonstrates how agenda driven this is and it further demonstrates(curiously), that no matter the theatre that is played out over superficial differences(between parties), that when it comes to agenda's such as this, each one has carried it on from the next. You would imagine, for example, that if a Republican candidate was allowed to get up and promise the host people of America that they would get a full say in whether or not America would open it's borders to yet more second and third world immigration, that many people would get right behind that man. No question of this in my mind, just as there is no question that he would be attacked(because his fair and reasonable position threatens the status quo). However, the choice to even get behind such a man is simply not there. Those that get pushed to the front pretend to argue and debate each other, but as I say, on matters like this the do not differ much. To keep people happy they occasionally pay it lip service or engage in some high profile gimmicks, but since their agenda is MORE immigration, rest assured that what they do will be no more than lip service. In the case of my country, I like to trace it back a little. See if I can in fact put some names and faces to the agenda. That would seem like the honest thing to do, since if you cannot do that, then you cannot fairly attribute blame properly. In an attempt to do that I have found.... ** * 23 Oct 2009 The huge increases in migrants over the last decade were partly due to a politically motivated attempt by ministers to radically change the country and "rub the Right's nose in diversity", according to Andrew Neather, a former adviser to Tony Blair, Jack Straw and David Blunkett. He said Labour's relaxation of controls was a deliberate plan to "open up the UK to mass migration" but that ministers were nervous and reluctant to discuss such a move publicly for fear it would alienate its "core working class vote". Writing in the Evening Standard, he revealed the "major shift" in immigration policy came after the publication of a policy paper from the Performance and Innovation Unit, a Downing Street think tank based in the Cabinet Office, in 2001. The "deliberate policy", from late 2000 until "at least February last year", when the new points based system was introduced, was to open up the UK to mass migration, he said. Some 2.3 million migrants have been added to the population since then, according to Whitehall estimates quietly slipped out last month. Sir Andrew Green, chairman of the Migrationwatch think tank, said: "Now at least the truth is out, and it's dynamite. "Many have long suspected that mass immigration under Labour was not just a balls up but also a conspiracy. They were right. "This Government has admitted three million immigrants for cynical political reasons concealed by dodgy economic camouflage." The chairmen of the cross-party Group for Balanced Migration, MPs Frank Field and Nicholas Soames, said: "We welcome this statement by an ex-adviser, which the whole country knows to be true. "It is the first beam of truth that has officially been shone on the immigration issue in Britain." http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...K-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html There we go. Once again, named persons, lots of detail, no emotions here, just information and facts. We can clearly see for this the aggressive nature and malicious intent(not to mention the admitted covertness) that was carried out as. a result of the dubiously titled -Performance and Innovation Unit. *Wiki* "Uncovering of details pertaining to a policy paper Migration: An Economic And Social Analysis, authored in 2001 during the Blair Ministry by Labour "think-tank" the Performance and Innovation Unit, is what created the controversy. The ensuing controversy created by the scandal, led to a public apology by Home Secretary, Alan Johnson of the Labour Party (authored by Neather) over government handing of immigration issues. Although denying "a plot", Johnson admitted that the government policy and handling in the area had been maladroit". This Orwellian sounding "Performance and Innovation Unit" was steered by Jack Straw, Barbara Roche + Jonathan Portes.
Immigration policy should be focused on our workforce, and so we should allow those with particular skills (engineers, physicists, PhDs etc.) quick entry, and allow work visas for general laborers and low skilled workers. I also think the family connection should be more limited. If someone marries a foreign national, that person shouldn't get a super easy entry and route to citizenship. They should still prove, at the least, English proficiency. Young children are an obvious exception, but beyond children and spouse I don't think much preference should be given for familial relationship. We should always allow a fast track to citizenship for those willing to enlist. Its one jell of a way to prove that you really want to be an American.
Pretty much agree with Trojanii. Immigration is a great thing, if it's working as it should. We used to have standards for who we allow into the States. Now it seems anything goes, which has led to the immigration of millions of lesser-skilled individuals. I don't think we should halt immigration, but I do think we need to rid the country of illegals. With the amassing population of undocumented Mexicans, we've been plagued with several gangs, like MS-13, and due to our current lax immigration laws, these people can continue to break laws without the threat of deportation. In addition to that, millions of others are taking jobs away from American citizens, because they'll do the work for less... because less is still more than what they'd be making in Mexico. Meanwhile, they send that money back to Mexico, to support their families back in their homeland, stimulating Mexico's economy, rather than America's. Maybe a 5yr ban would be a good idea, though, since we already have so many immigration concerns - terrorists, gangs, drug cartels, etc. While this would close the door to enemies of the country, it'll also close the doors to those who would love to come here, seeking new opportunity. Perhaps that's needed, since people are beginning to take this country, and everything it typically has to offer, for granted. Either way... immigration is a good thing, illegal immigration and the extensive leniency we've allotted families of the immigrated are bad. As it stands, we need a complete overhaul of our policy... and we need to secure the border, because whether we "ban" immigration or not, people will still be getting in, until we do.
Interesting to note not a single person currently thinks their Gov have it about right at present. It appears that the vote is shaping up to tell us that reasonable people are saying "enough is enough".
I can sure you its "enough is enough" mentality. I'm one of those folks who did just that. For the last 10 years I have been anti- immigration from protesting on the steps of the Texas capital to volunteering my time and money to help keep illegals from gaining access to the US. So yes people are getting fed up with the way immigration is being played out.
Well, let's be clear, they are not elected by a majority of the adult population, but rather a clear minority of the overall population. That is a fact and it can only go downhill from there. With that being said, there is no question at all that successive Gov's, both in the US and Europe, have forced third world immigration onto us, without ever consulting us(the people who are more likely to be impacted by it than some toff multi millionaire politician). This has been their core policy, keep pouring more and more second and third world immigrants into the US and Europe. This is not a random view that I plucked from the air, but a fact that can be absolutely evidenced. It has clearly been done out of malice. In short, successive Gov's may differ on some relatively minor points, but when it comes to this issue, they have forced it through, come hell or high water. The political class(complicit with others), have browbeaten you all into believing you owe these immigrants something, and that they don't need to arrive with anything to offer, sometimes not even speak English. Truth is, you don't owe them a single thing. But because this is a collective agenda against the US and Europe, you cannot trust or hope that the people whose agenda it is are going to raise this issue. On the contrary, they will do all they can to simply not have the debate. If they do mention it, it is a bit of rhetoric, but it is not followed through with action we can respect. The media, not surprisingly, are complicit as well. Here(to give one example), the BBC were forced to admit that they literally have a dual set of standards whe it comes to covering issues pertaining to this. If violence and crime is committed by immigrants, their standard is to simply not report it, or under report it. Again, that is not my view, it was conceded by them, when backed into a corner.
In post after post, we've had discussions in which you've insisted that race wasn't a factor for you, and you weren't a race baiter, and here you are. I admit I'm a bit shocked. Apparently it really is all about race for you. As for the topic, I'm all for high quality immigrants, and by that I meant educated who are financially self sustaining. So I like the idea of allowing foreigners who graduate from US colleges with Professional or STEM degrees the opportunity to stay here. We need an educated, skilled workforce. Unfortunately current government policy favors low skilled, uneducated immigrants, who are only good for driving down wage rates of the native working class. There are people in charge of this country who really really hate the working class and want to give them a hard kick in the face. How else to explain the desire to let 11 million lawbreakers stay here? Most of them with little in the way of work skills other than manual labor. Just what our 21st century economy needs, coolies.
Your best post ever. Absolutely true, and this can be fully evidenced. That's what people forget as well. When there is mass migration from third world countries, we're not getting the best of people that the nation they come from has to offer, but often the worse. In short, we get what they don't want. And if you bring the second and third world over, the second and third world is what you get... And I cannot think of a more hateful measure than to do this, and for a long time now, to the host people. It must(as you have done) be seen for what it really is, a spiteful attack. London not so long ago... London now. Paris 1950's... Paris now..
Are you lumping in Illegal immigration in with real immigration? This gets done so often I do not want to assume anything.
Lmao I love how the majority of the options say "I would like to see a ban on immigration", you clearly have a very biased poll set up lol.
Well illegal immigration is illegal, so not really no. They should not be getting in period and any found should be removed without delay, period.
Then my real answer is I am for a massive increase in legal immigrants where we go through the records and disallow those with problems and allow those with something to offer the USA that is to our benefit, such as higher education and money to their name. I would only allow this massive immigration increase with the issuance of a national identification card being a requirement of all workers so there are no illegal workers and a massive fine for someone hiring someone without this ID card. Those here illegally will deport themselves with this policy. I would hold no penalty for someone who has been in the USA in their application for legal immigration but I would not give someone an advantage for having come here illegaly as this would encourage more people to come here illegally.
As far as illegals go, again, your Gov's, if they had really wanted to, they could have prevented/solved this issue long ago. From time to time they will say they do, but they don't. If they are here illegally, then any responsible Gov would set about, with definite targets, removing them all from the country, no matter what excuses the many org's that make money and political gain from "representing" these illegals say or do. They are illegal. They need to be gone, period. We need to stop falling for this manipulation of our emotions, and this exploitation of our altruism.
