The latest stimulus package won't pass at all.

Yea...it pretty much does

 

I don't expect them to come together soon. Maybe they will at least be able to cobble something together piecemeal for the short term. I still have my check in my account from Round 1 (of course I only got it a month ago). I didn't need it. Don't know what is the best use for it. It just sits in with the rest of my savings. I would rather they have sent it to someone worse off. I don't know anyone personally who has really been thrown for a loop by this. Most people been working throughout like me. The people I know in distress are always in distress because of their bad habits and 'm not giving it to them. Save for a rainy day I guess is all I can do.

 

No it pretty much doesn't. Again Socialism is an economic system in which the government owns the means of production out right.

 

So Social Security and the ACA are not socialism

Glad you cleared that up

 

Here is the thing - when the manna stops falling from heaven - all hell is going to break loose- and no politician wants to be blamed for that - especially a few months prior to a Presidential election.

 

This is a PANDEMIC Extraordinary measure for extraordinary times

 

and extra ordinary measures have been taken - the question is how long these be sustained - without causing major irreparable damage.

 

To help reduce the corruption inherent in incumbency.

Obviously they would be included.

 

If we do nothing... THAT will cause irreparable damage

 

Correct - maintaining the Status quo - maintaining the lockdown will cause irreparable damage.

 

So we’re done? The virus is behind us and no one is getting sick or dying?

Everyone is back to work?

No?

oh

 

Your not paying attention Lesh - you are on this one track one sided myopic path - down a trail of kool-aid and very confusing and sometimes false narrative. On the other side it is the same.

This is not a simple situation - Both options are bad - and we have to figure out which is the least bad - Do you have any thoughts on this other than "Just wear a fkng Mask" - as goes Golem's moniker.

Can you tell me why this is the "least Bad option" ? Can you argue against this position and tell me why it may not be the least bad option.

Do you want to have a serious conversation - or do you wish to play romper room - cause I can argue both sides of the fence - and have a smattering of subject matter expertise

 

Nope they are social programs of dubious merit stacked on the back of tax payers because leftists thought it would be a good idea at the time.

 

Again the number if deaths as a percentage of infections, as well as the percentage of hodpitslization vs number of infections we've got the damn thing number now. Continuing to stick out heads in the sand and be cowed is stupid.

Wrong they're trying to use the epidemic to score political points.

 

What?
50,000 infections and 1200 deaths yesterday

we do Not have the damn things number

not even close

 

Very simply, your argument to just ignore the virus is that you want to get the economy going again. True?
Allowing the virus to run rampant will not allow that. Do you not understand that?

 

And you somehow think it would be better to have millions of AMERICAN CITIZEN families wandering around our streets homeless and starving to death????

 

If no more of these handout welfare programs is put into effect it will be just FINE with me.

Maybe we can restore some VALUE in the American Dollar!

 

Why not sell Okiehoma it is worthless?

 

Chinese aren't stupid.

 

Very simply - False - and False - and extremely simplistic - and somewhat offensive.

Given we started with a strawman - the above does not apply - to anything I have stated or inferred

That is kind of what I meant by "romper room" in the post you are responding to.

So moving on to something resembling a valid or at least coherent argument for something that someone is actually debating...

As long as we are in Lockdown - the bigger the Economic Tsunami will be. This is a given -

This economic disaster will kill people - estimates are roughly 35,000 for every 1% increase in unemployment - but that is in the US - and in Normal times.. during a massive economic disaster the numbers will be much higher - and in other nations - they could be catastrophic.

So the longer we remain in full lockdown mode - the more people die.

On the other side of the coin - there were valid reasons for the initial lockdown -

1) we did not know what the treat was - how fast it would spread - how lethal we did not have any treatment or vaccine
2) Hospitals in Italy were being over-run - life and death decisions had to be made based on who gets a ventilator - and who does not - we were not prepared.

Nations locked down - and did so hard - which you need to do - you are either in lockdown mode or you are not - for reasons I will explain.
They were able to flatten the curve - to a point where there was no threat of overwhelming hospitals .. a small outbreak here and there in some nursing home or care facility ..

We now know how to contain this thing - not completely - but that was never the endgame - you can't completely contain a flue virus.
We have treatments - we are prepared and so on - which is why these nations have started to open up.

The problem is however - that we are only half open, which, from an economic perspective .. is just as bad as being fully locked down.

The US is a clown show by comparison with other nations - When you lock down - you have to lock down hard. The curve flattens very quickly - within a matter of a few months - as demonstrated by over 100 nations ..

Itally - where this thing was a raging inferno - currently has 12,924 active cases - 42 of which are in serious or critical condition = far less than one per hospital .. 12882 are classified as "Mild" ...

Over in Sweden - where lockdown was not in effect however it is not like Swedes were going around liking bathroom doorknobs .. intelligent people acting intelligently can limit the spread of a virus. Shaking hands much these days ?

68,263 active cases - 68,229 "mild" 34 "serious or critical" Not exactly the Plague - as this thing mutates - it becomes more contagious but less lethal.

In the US we have not figured out how to lock down yet - the USA of South America is having similar issues - go figure ..

When you lock down - you have to do so hard - flatten the curve - but then you have to open up rather quickly - as in people traveling - conferences - Sports events and so on - and you can still take precautions at such events - (not licking bathroom doorknobs - not shaking the hand of the fellow you don't know next to you or swaping spit after a touchdown)

If there is a flare up in a certain location or region - you can isolate that area and lock it down..

The US can't get through phase one of the lockdown procedure - what do you want me to tell you. Can't really decide on anything until we figure that one out.

You have to get the curve flat - but then - you need to open up. The longer this process takes - the bigger the economic Tsunami will be - and the more people will die.

It is a damned if you do - damned if you don't choice - Politicians are going to operate on the basis of which choice can not be tied directly to them - hence the masks.

Masks do not stop the spread of the disease - someone wearing a mask all day who has covid - accumulating mucus in side the mask - getting it on their hands - and touching the peanut butter jar prior to you coming along - is also a vector.

The problem with masks - other than the false sense of security - is that it is not just about the masks .. if society is at a level where people are masking up - even though there is no significant threat of hospitals being overwhelmed - this means that normal social activities are not occurring - such as travel, conferences , sports events and so on ... and the economic Tsunami is building and more people will be dying

but as a Politician - this can not be tied to you so easy - so don those masks - no matter what the risk is. This a decision bases on politics - not on science or the facts.

 

In that “Gish gallop” you made numerous claims and assumptions which are debatable to be kind.
If you truly want a discussion let’s have one. That would mean that you address my post and not simply ignore and talk over it.
My assertion is that allowing the virus to run rampant (and it is) hurts the economy as badly as mitigation efforts.
If you disagree tell me why

 

It's obvious what's happening here. Congressional Repubs, based on the assumption Trump loses in Nov., are once again sabotaging a recovery from an economic downturn. They did it when Obama was prez, now they're doing it in anticipation of a Biden presidency. And you know damn well they will pretend to care about budget deficits again after supporting Trump's profligate deficit spending to temporarily get a bump in GDP.

 

That was put out in the early days.

 

and it lower in terms of deaths per infection this week and it was lower last week than the week before. We've had forty kids under 15 die of this crap nation wide and every last one of them had pre existing conditions. And we're shutting down schools never mid that kids don't hardly get it at all and are significant spreaders if the disease.