Are you actually ready to buy an Electric Vehicle?

The poll has no option for a hybrid car, which I think makes most sense. So I picked "I'll keep my fuel car plus purchase an EV" which is like a "hybrid" option... although I'm not about to do this yet. But I do consider for the future that I might have an EV for limited use: say, to commute to work, as long as the charging in both points (home and work) could be done without my wasting any time with charging. That is, charging the vehicle at home overnight, and at work while I work, so that I'd have no downtime waiting for the vehicle to charge. If fully charged and with enough range that I'd be able to run errands in town after work, etc., I'd stick with the EV for the day. But anytime I'd need to travel far, needing the autonomy, and needing refuel, I'd take my fuel car.

Why am I not about to do it? For one thing, if I do go through a change in the name of the environment, a hybrid vehicle seems like a better compromise as I'd be able to have only one and still contribute to a cleaner environment but not be so depending on charging stations and subject to downtime. Second, my place of work does not have a convenient charging station. So the idea of not wasting any time with charging at either end of my commute, would not be perfect with a pure EV, although I do not live that far from my work, so conceivably one overnight charge at home would still allow me to commute in both directions and run some errands, I suppose (I never really looked at what the autonomy is, and whether or not the battery on the EV would keep the charge all day long while I work without recharging, especially in low winter temps - I know little about EVs).

Now, to go for this option, I'd need to learn more about these batteries and about the electricity needed to feed them. You know, if you get an EV but the electricity you're using comes from a coal plant... I don't see what good you're doing to the environment. And what's the energy and environmental cost of making these batteries and disposing of the wasted ones?

 

The article says only the “elite” are able to drive EV’s

for those few elites that can afford them​

Which is a bunch of low information lies for people too gullible to do any research of their own.
The cheapest new EV is only $30,750, if an individual over college age is unable to afford that it isn’t because they are not elite, it is because they have failed as a functioning adult in society.

I agree no one could believe that article outside of a “committed partisan” or what I wrote above.

 

I know a woman who owns a Tesla and her house has solar power to charge it overnight (actually she participates in a solar farm which subsidizes her link to the regular electric grid - seems like the solar farm feeds the electric company on her behalf so her electric bill is taken care of by her share in the solar farm). She commutes some 50 miles to work and it's cold where she lives, which affects the range as she needs to use heating, but she has convenient and abundant charging stations at work (she works for a very modern corporation). She lives in a college town that isn't too big so she can run her errands without recharging, and in the eventually that she does need it, the town does have several charging stations. When she needs to travel far which is infrequent, she rents a hybrid car. She believes that overall she saves money, helps the environment, and she is happy with this arrangement. So I guess for some people it works nicely.

 

The term the environment is far too vague as well as the idea man is in charge of climate changing is enough to make me laugh.
The hybrid is a better way for sure.
Cost of EV are not in the reasonable range. My Cadillac was not either. I did not need to install a fuel tank at my residence as EV needs to charge at home. In other words, it is not plug and play for the EV. Also when driving in the mountains, I do not have to wait for my car to refill over a few minutes and do not have problems locating sources of gasoline.
I am not anti EV. I am anti all the fooling around, the higher cost and the fires encountered by the Tesla. Too many of them escape the news cycle but when they hit the news, it is frightening.

 

The idea that electric cars are somehow more "environmentally friendly" is a colossal joke, and I can't believe that anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together is falling for it. Electric cars have to be charged, and the electricity to do that is, statistically speaking, probably coming from a coal-fired power plant. So really, all they do is to shift the environmental impacts from the tailpipe of a car to the exhaust stacks of a power plant. And they allow the self righteous yuppies who drive them to get away with not paying their fair share of the expenses to build and maintain roads, bridges, and highways because those same owners pay nothing in gas taxes. Which is another reason we need a weight/mile tax in lieu of gas taxes; but most assuredly not in addition to.

Combine that with all of the shortcomings mentioned by others in this thread and you have a technology whose time not only hasn't come yet, it may never arrive. It's just more feel good, symbolism over substance politics as usual.

About the only exception to that is those very few who are charging their cars with their own solar generated power, or those using nuclear. But that word scares people, despite the fact that it's probably the best and safest way to distribute electricity that exists today. And even those few who do that are still not contributing their fair share to the costs of building and maintaining transportation infrastructure.

 

I didn’t mention environmental reasons so I am not sure why you responded to me — guess something to do with those two brain cells...
They are more environmentally friendly over the life of the vehicle in most areas and way worse in others. I find it interesting that people are “yuppies” because they are able to afford a technology that makes sense in their lives but to each their own. My vehicle is powered by hydroelectricity and solar so I would argue it is much better than most gasoline vehicles on the road — that isn’t the reason I bought it however. As to the mileage tax replacing the fuel tax — I disagree. Consider the taxes on gasoline to be a sin tax.

More EV’s are sold each year than the previous. Just because one is unable to afford one (or doesn’t want one) doesn’t mean the time will never arrive. Many nations will go completely EV in a few years. Just because some inbreds cannot figure them out doesn’t mean no one can.

I agree, people are terrified of nuclear. Likely because some of the older plants with failed containment systems. That is a PR issue

 

Firstly thank- you for acknowledging that coal is a problem in polluting the environment- which is why coal is gradually being phased out

 

Ah, you flatter yourself. But, alas, that was not the reason. It was actually based on my belief that you'd be more inclined to argue with me about what I was about to say, and boy did I nail that prediction. As for the brain cells, anyone who would propose leaving roads completely unfunded, which you did, and we'll get to, probably does not have the aforementioned number of brain cells.

You are reading far too much into it. It's not that being "yuppies" makes them able to afford electric vehicles (though that certainly does help), it's merely my personal observations that yuppies are the ones who are, in fact, purchasing and driving them in the first place.

Then I'm sure you're thrilled at your fellow lefties position on removing as many dams as they can get removed. As for the solar, consider yourself lucky, as not many people have that option, and those who do frequently find it is more expensive. Which makes sense because it is more expensive, one of the reasons solar has yet to catch on as a mainstream means of electricity production. Or personal for that matter. I'll concede it's been about four years since I ran the numbers, but at least at that point in time, the ROI on getting solar panels on my roof was 44 years, and that assumed the original panels would last that long, which we all know they won't, meaning the real number was much higher.

And here's the part where you seem to propose leaving the transportation infrastructure unfunded. Because if tomorrow, everyone were to replace their evil gas guzzlers with the glorious battery powered alternatives, which is after all your stated goal, you'd be in a situation where all of a sudden, nobody is paying gas taxes, meaning there's no money available for funding transportation infrastructure, and calling into question your amount of brain cells. Now, I can understand why you would take this position, because it allows you with your shiny electric car to pay no gas taxes and still reap the benefits of driving on the roads for free, but that's a poor reason to advocate such a policy. After all, somebody has to pay for the roads, and those somebodies should be the people that use them. Like you. I would say "and me", but due to my disability, I don't drive, therefore I also don't pay gas taxes. But that makes me a statistical anomaly, so it's safe to ignore my personal situation with regards to this discussion.

Just because more and more people are buying one, even at the point of a gun (which is what all government enforcement actions ultimately are), doesn't make it a good idea. It's still a product that merely shifts the production of electricity from within the car to elsewhere, which despite where you personally are getting it from, is overwhelmingly coal fired power plants.

Hey, we agree on something. It's a start, I suppose.

 

I made no such acknowledgement. The only thing I acknowledged is that many leftists think it's so. Regardless, even if I did agree with you on that point, we still have many coal fired plants, a fact that will remain true for many decades into the future. Probably for much longer than I'll be here, and I'm all of 51.

Now, do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion, or is "hit it and quit it" all we should expect from you?

 

Please remember that the "cheapest" car may not be suitable for many uses.
Average new car cost in 2019: $36,600
Average EV cost in 2019: $55,600
How Much Is an Electric Car? - Car and Driver
https://www.caranddriver.com › research › how-much-i...

Apr 13, 2020 — According to Quartz, the average cost of a new car in June 2019 in the U.S. was $36,600. This was a 2% increase from the year before. However, according to data from Cox Automotive, the average cost of an electric vehicle decreased from $64,300 to $55,600: a 13.4% decrease from the year before.

 

There are 20 solar panels in the front yard that charge my wife's electric vehicle....there is no shortage of sun power yet...
but if the right has it's way, they will block out the sun with their love of gas-guzzling heaps and no air quality standards.

 

Your slander of Constitutionalists reflects only on you.

 

I am merely responding to your implication below...

The "left" is attempting to deal with a problem that effects everyone on the planet...
the "Constitutionalists" as you call them seem only interested in what effects them personally.

 

I implied nothing of the sort. Support your inference.

You are virtue-signalling. What is the life expectancy of your solar panels? What do you intend to with them when they need to be replaced? The same questions for the battery pack on your electric car.

Your claim that while your "interests" are pure and noble, the interests of those that disagree with you are vulgar and profane, doesn't that seem a bit self-serving?

Electric cars have a dirty little recycling problem ...
https://www.nationalobserver.com/20...irty-little-recycling-problem-their-batteries
But the announcement also underscores one of the fundamental challenges that will complicate the transition to electric vehicles. Without cobalt, there may be little financial incentive to recycle the massive batteries used to power the cars — and that could lead to an environmental disaster.

Do you have any sense of the challenge with dealing with all this waste?




Any concerns over the environmental destruction caused by acquiring the materials for production?



Try to be a bit more open minded and bit less self-righteous and your whole day will go better.

 

Yes....very good advice....but where is your own "open-mindedness" displayed?
You seem to be suggesting everything is going just fine the way it is now.....that there is no real problem with using ICE vehicles.
Do you not think that maybe your own attitude is a bit self-righteous?

 

I've noticed the "2 brain cell" idea mentioned by more than one of the right leaning group in these forums....
is that some popular quote currently being used on Fox News?

 

Same happens if you run out of gas....you just learn how to deal with it.

 

I follow the facts. That is why I asked you fact based questions and supported them.

Again, your unsupported inference.

Things can always be improved.

We make wide use of internal combustion engines and we have some of the cleanest air in the world, sharing the top quintile with no other nation or territory that even approaches our population or economic dynamics.

https://www.iqair.com/us/world-most-polluted-countries

You want to improve global air quality? Focus on some of these nations and territories in the bottom quintile.

Not at all. I'm always willing to follow the facts and open to self-examination and improvement.

Your post contains zero testable propositions and not a single supporting source. You have offered nothing more than parroting of memorized points you have no real understanding of, with self-congratulatory references to your solar panels and electric car, even though both are environmental nightmares.

 

If you want to have a discussion with me it simply requires you quoting me. I reply to each and every one unless it is someone trolling. When you start slinging insults I will be happy to respond in kind.

Quote where I have ever said roads should be unfunded? It was obviously too difficult for you to read the entire post prior to regurgitating a lie.

I love it when people try and justify their narrative by placing people in boxes they have created in their head. It absolutely dissolves their narrative. 3.1 million EV’s sold in 2020 and sales are increasing faster than any other segment by a significant margin (43% last year).

Solar technology has come a long way but most of them still have a return that is hard to swallow for many unless you live in an area with expensive power. Some areas you can lease the panels and pay less.

As to the point on dams, I agree liberals have a tendency to place emotion over fact but some of the dams being removed were actually severely damaging the local environment or causing issues down stream.

Ah, the arrogance of simply assuming another’s position based on emotion over fact. The con way. What I said was “As to the mileage tax replacing the fuel tax — I disagree. Consider the taxes on gasoline to be a sin tax.” I bolded the key word in case you are having difficulty. We should have a mileage tax and a fuel tax (aforementioned sin tax). It doesn’t even a single brain cell to make up your opponent’s position to give you something to argue against.

Those sources are changing even against significant opposition. End fossil fuel subsidies, r&d grants and tax breaks and watch what the free market will do.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

 

And yet:

Average new car cost in 2019: $36,600
Average EV cost in 2019: $55,600

 

“In the fourth quarter, the average price of a new vehicle was $40,179, according to Edmunds. In December, it was $40,573. Both are records.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...suvs-financing-downpayment-prices/4139776001/

EV’s drop in price each year while ICE vehicles increase. It will not be long before the two are equal and it is expected EV’s will actually be cheaper.

The fact remains you can get an EV for less than the average cost of a new vehicle.

 

The same factors driving up prices on ICE vehicles are also driving up the prices of EV's. In addition, carmakers are dropping many sedan and small car models, to focus on large SUV's.

 

Tesla Crash, and Its Shaky History With Investigators
Faiz Siddiqui, MSN

 

Okay....okay...I sold the EV and all the solar panels and bought this...



If that doesn't make you happy....nothing will

 

Actually...it is exactly "plug and play".
As a matter of fact a standard 120 VAC receptacle....like you already have in your garage
is the best way to charge the EV. (slow charge is better for the battery)